ok well past few weeks been eventfull lol i have had to pull a 1 ton truck out of my brothers yard with my nova also had to pull a few other things out of the mud as well and think i might of fried the th350 as it does not feel right the then my wifes caprice took a crap on us and its a 1991 i was putting in a different engine when i found the fuel lines were cracked so were gonna junk the caprice and im keepin the engine and trans the engine is a 9c1 350 and the trans is a 700R4 and im wanting to put it in the nova also i am putting in a older 12 bolt rear that has 3:31 gears and i have an l31 vortec 350 that i got for the nova so how ggod will this do for me and how much of a pain is the tranny swap going to be
darricks77nova
For my g ride im swaping the turbo.350 for a 700r4 and i think the trans crossmember need tp b moved back and drive shaft shorten
The TH350 to TH700r4 swap isn't a big deal.
- Move the crossmember back
- Shorten the driveshaft
- Properly set up the throttle valve cable (NOT the same as the kick-down cable on your TH350)
- Adjust your shifter linkage
If you want to run a lock-up converter, there are a couple aftermarket kits which use speed or vacuum pressure, or a manual selection.
- Move the crossmember back
- Shorten the driveshaft
- Properly set up the throttle valve cable (NOT the same as the kick-down cable on your TH350)
- Adjust your shifter linkage
If you want to run a lock-up converter, there are a couple aftermarket kits which use speed or vacuum pressure, or a manual selection.
The cross member will be the most work. Just moving it back is not enough, the mounting tab position needs to be changed. Keep in mind the engine and trans are not centered in the frame. Measure the offset of the pad on the cross member before cutting it off.
The 75 - 81 F body after market cross member will work for the 700 trans.
Click on photo for link
The 75 - 81 F body after market cross member will work for the 700 trans.
Click on photo for link
Its also a pain with the exhaust. Using original exhaust, I had to make a bend around the pan. In Mexico the original didnt use catalyst converter, so I dont know if its the same in the US. Dont know about aftermarket exhausts.
well looks like will be a lil work but not worried i was looking into doing the trans converter lockup with a manual toggle system lol but i am also wondering how i can make the tv cable work with out buying a $40 lil peice of metal for the corrector that is just plain ridiculous for a $2 peice of metal just because it has a tci name tag on it
I posted this on another site about how I did my cross member:
http://www.novas.net/forums/showpost.php?p=141390&postcount=10
Info on the TV cable:
http://www.jakesperformance.com/TV_Cable_Setup_Info.html
I like the Rochesters so I used one off a 85-86 truck already set up for the TV.
^^Absolutely critical to have it right or you'll smoke the trans^^
I had to have my exhaust altered after the cross member was moved back.
Lock up on a toggle is going to be a PITA. You'll have to change it every time you downshift and every time you stop. There are a few cheap ways to make it work somewhat automatically. A quick Google search would get you what you need. At the urging of Jake from Jake's Performance I opted not to run a lock up converter.
http://www.novas.net/forums/showpost.php?p=141390&postcount=10
Info on the TV cable:
http://www.jakesperformance.com/TV_Cable_Setup_Info.html
I like the Rochesters so I used one off a 85-86 truck already set up for the TV.
^^Absolutely critical to have it right or you'll smoke the trans^^
I had to have my exhaust altered after the cross member was moved back.
Lock up on a toggle is going to be a PITA. You'll have to change it every time you downshift and every time you stop. There are a few cheap ways to make it work somewhat automatically. A quick Google search would get you what you need. At the urging of Jake from Jake's Performance I opted not to run a lock up converter.
What is the advantage of this? My last 700R4 locked up when it shifted to 4th and was trouble free the 6 years I drove it.
If I recall correctly, the factory pancake catalytic converter was far enough towards the passenger side that it didn't interfere (could be wrong) with the repositioned crossmember.
When I switched to true duals, I had to move the cats back a little bit closer to the tail of the tranny. Depending on your state/county, this may or may not satisfy the emissions requirements. By the letter of the (federal) law, you can't modify the location or number of catalysts your car came with, unless it could be ordered as a factory upgrade. For example, the 5.0 Mustangs came with dual catalysts, so you could upgrade an V6 LX if you wanted to. But, the disco Novas never came with two, so you technically can't change it. I actually had an inspector call me on that once.
Also, moving them further back could make them not function as well since the temp would be lower. Theoretically, at least.
When I switched to true duals, I had to move the cats back a little bit closer to the tail of the tranny. Depending on your state/county, this may or may not satisfy the emissions requirements. By the letter of the (federal) law, you can't modify the location or number of catalysts your car came with, unless it could be ordered as a factory upgrade. For example, the 5.0 Mustangs came with dual catalysts, so you could upgrade an V6 LX if you wanted to. But, the disco Novas never came with two, so you technically can't change it. I actually had an inspector call me on that once.
Also, moving them further back could make them not function as well since the temp would be lower. Theoretically, at least.
Also, for the TV cable, I eventually broke down and got that Bowtie Overdrives kit. I was never satisfied with the shift points or feel on the tranny before. It was a big improvement. For what it's worth...
Now I got worried. As per Knuckle's suggestion I read Jake's excellent page on tv cable adjustment and realized my adjustment will be bad for the tranny if I dont get he right carb. Ive always known my low end adjust was forcing the tranny, but didnt know why.
My Quadrajet carb isnt original anyway so I really have to seek one compatible with TH700R4. Any tips on how to find one? I dont have a clue what cars came with a TH700 from the factory.
My Quadrajet carb isnt original anyway so I really have to seek one compatible with TH700R4. Any tips on how to find one? I dont have a clue what cars came with a TH700 from the factory.
So long as your throttle valve is completely forward inside the valve body at WOT, you won't hurt the transmission. Your partial throttle shifts may suck lf the geometry of the cable and the corresponding "arc" it makes from idle to WOT is incorrect. They make adapter plates for almost every major carb (incl the Quadrajet). I run a Holley, and had bought the Holley adapter plate, but still wasn't satisfied. So, I got the "TV Made EZ" kit from Bowtie Overdrives. It has an adjustable cam which lets you alter your partial throttle pressures, while maintaining correct geometry all the way through.
On a different note, I agree 100% with the comment about the tranny not behaving "quite right" without the ECM. That sums up my entire experience with the 700r4. Good solid tranny overall, but has never functioned exactly the way my bud's EFI '92 RS Camaro did back in the day. When this one bites the dust, I'm gonna think long and hard about switching to a manual.
On a different note, I agree 100% with the comment about the tranny not behaving "quite right" without the ECM. That sums up my entire experience with the 700r4. Good solid tranny overall, but has never functioned exactly the way my bud's EFI '92 RS Camaro did back in the day. When this one bites the dust, I'm gonna think long and hard about switching to a manual.
Dpack, where did you buy the adapter plates, do they have a website? I have a carb whiz guy that would install them for me.
Yes sir: http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml
Here's the specific kit I bought: http://www.tvmadeez.com/
I recommend reading through this first: http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.php as it explains the significance of the TV Cable setup.
My apologies--I was rewording my last post and didn't realize there were subsequent posts on a new page. I'm still new to this message board thing...
Here's the specific kit I bought: http://www.tvmadeez.com/
I recommend reading through this first: http://www.tvmadeez.com/article/index.php as it explains the significance of the TV Cable setup.
My apologies--I was rewording my last post and didn't realize there were subsequent posts on a new page. I'm still new to this message board thing...
I think I meant what you said...If you don't have full pressure at WOT, you'll burn up the tranny. If you have too great or too little pressure from idle to WOT, your shift points and feel will be adversely affected. This is caused by the plunger valve not traveling as designed in the valve body, which is caused by altering the geometry/travel of the TV cable from your pedal to the throttle. If you aren't using an OEM induction, you will require an adapter to ensure the correct travel.
My only reservation from Jake's description, is that the transmission is under load from the moment you put it in "Drive", as evident by the fact that the car will move forward on it's own with no additional throttle applied.
My point it it's not just a "feel" issue. Damage is occurring if it's not right, at part throttle or wot. It's just gotta be right.
If you don't have full pressure at WOT, you'll burn up the tranny. If you have too great or too little pressure from idle to WOT, your shift points and feel will be adversely affected.
I joined to address a couple of bits of tech brought up in this thread.
First, a bit about myself.
I run a performance transmission shop that sells over 250 units a year. I'm not as big as Hughes or TCI but when a customer calls my shop they usually speak to me, and if not me they talk to an actual technician, not a salesperson.
We have a dyno at the shop that we use to test every unit we ship. We also have a test car with a 454 BBC, 4.10 rear, etc to do development work and we used to use to test transmissions before we got the dyno.
The short story is, I have extensive personal experience with automatic transmissions used in performance applications and retrofits. I'm not regurgitating what I read in a magazine or on the internet.
First I'll address the reason I recommend a non lockup converter for use in a retrofit application.
It isn't to sell more transmissions. I have a 4-8 week backlog. I love repeat customers but I don't base my business model off screwing the customer like some shops do. Notice I don't need to spam the internet with advertising like some do.
The reason is "control".
The average enthusiast isn't going to properly control the lockup.
Someone mentioned a toggle switch. I've never seen an OEM install a toggle switch for lockup, and I personally have a higher standard for installation than to use a toggle as the means to control lockup. Not to mention safety factors.
More to follow.
First, a bit about myself.
I run a performance transmission shop that sells over 250 units a year. I'm not as big as Hughes or TCI but when a customer calls my shop they usually speak to me, and if not me they talk to an actual technician, not a salesperson.
We have a dyno at the shop that we use to test every unit we ship. We also have a test car with a 454 BBC, 4.10 rear, etc to do development work and we used to use to test transmissions before we got the dyno.
The short story is, I have extensive personal experience with automatic transmissions used in performance applications and retrofits. I'm not regurgitating what I read in a magazine or on the internet.
First I'll address the reason I recommend a non lockup converter for use in a retrofit application.
It isn't to sell more transmissions. I have a 4-8 week backlog. I love repeat customers but I don't base my business model off screwing the customer like some shops do. Notice I don't need to spam the internet with advertising like some do.
The reason is "control".
The average enthusiast isn't going to properly control the lockup.
Someone mentioned a toggle switch. I've never seen an OEM install a toggle switch for lockup, and I personally have a higher standard for installation than to use a toggle as the means to control lockup. Not to mention safety factors.
More to follow.
Thanks Phillip,
It's much easier to do this from a real computer than from my phone..
Control of lockup in the earliest lockup transmissions occurred either mechanically (Ford AOD), hydraullically (early 200 3 speed, 200-4R, 700R4), and then became electrically operated.
When they started using electrically operated circuits, they typically already had ECM control (and electronic carbs).
During the transition there was a lot of "vacuum" operation. A vacuum switch, delay valve, and thermoswitch. Take a simple 12V circuit and then the OEM used a myriad of vacuum control as a "cutout" on that circuit. A vaccum switch tied to ported vacuum to kill the lockup uynder idle conditions or heavy throttle. A delay valve to prevent a shuttling condition, and a thermoswitch to not allow lockup until the engine was properly warmed up.
Most of us can remember working on cars in the 1980's or at least working on original 1980's model cars where they had a rats nest of vacuum hose going to EVERYTHING. Evap canister, air cleaner, fuel tank, PCV, brakes, EGR, trans lockup and possibly modulator, exhaust blockoff valve, heater control valve, and the list goes on.
I don't think anybody wants that junk on their hotrod. Most want a simple clean engine bay.
I can easily wire a 700-R4 for 4th gear lockup. It costs me virtually nothing. The normally open 43 psi pressure switch is already there. Simply re-arrange the wiring a bit and you have it. A bit of solder and heat shrink, or electrical connectors. Literally less than .50 cents worth of material and 2-3 minutes.
To build a non-lockup unit takes $30 worth of parts and it's a royal PITA to remove the capsuled checkball from the end of the input shaft.
So from a business perspective, the lockup unit is more profitable and easier (read quicker, again more profitable) to build.
If the customer's car is a street driven car that has a factory ECM that controls lockup (say a Buick Grand National or Monte SS) I usually recommend retaining lockup.
I'm pretty hard headed and in most situations it would seem counterproductive to install the latest technology and only use half the features. i.e. ovedrive tansmission but without the lockup.
However I learned over time that it's not always worth keeping.
The first argument you always hear for retaining lockup was brought up here. Heat. All the "experts" say "OH but without lockup it will overheat and burn up".
I say "We drove cars without a lockup for about 40 years and it wasn't a problem".
The next thing that is said is "Driving below the stall speed at cruise will cause the converter to cook the fluid".
Stall speed is a number that depends on the power input. For any given vehicle/converter combo, the stall speed will vary based on engine power.
Everybody gets hung up on peak power. We all like to toss numbers around. 500 HP, 600 lb/ft of torque, etc.
Engine power varies based on throttle opening.
A converter that stalls 3500 rpm at WOT in a given combo will stall less at 50% throttle and even less at 20% throttle at cruise.
So at cruise, the stall speed is not 3500. You ARE driving at the stall speed at cruise, otherwise it would climb TO the stall speed.
The short answer is YES the converter is what develops heat in the transmission. Yes it will sometimes run slightly warmer with a non-lockup converter. 10-20 degrees. NO it doesn't hurt it if you keep it reasonably within temp range.
We typically see 140-170 degree temps using a lockup converter behind a 1000-1500 HP combo using our 4L80E's. When we unlock the converter and cruise without any huge power input, the temp will range between 160-180. If we make a couple of successive WOT runs through all 4 gears, we'll see it spike to 200-220 degrees.
The typical 700-R4 in a 450 HP combo isn't going to build heat as fast as we are behind a 1200RWHP turbo combo in a 4500 lb truck. If it does, it has inadequate cooling or a really bad converter build.
It's much easier to do this from a real computer than from my phone..
Control of lockup in the earliest lockup transmissions occurred either mechanically (Ford AOD), hydraullically (early 200 3 speed, 200-4R, 700R4), and then became electrically operated.
When they started using electrically operated circuits, they typically already had ECM control (and electronic carbs).
During the transition there was a lot of "vacuum" operation. A vacuum switch, delay valve, and thermoswitch. Take a simple 12V circuit and then the OEM used a myriad of vacuum control as a "cutout" on that circuit. A vaccum switch tied to ported vacuum to kill the lockup uynder idle conditions or heavy throttle. A delay valve to prevent a shuttling condition, and a thermoswitch to not allow lockup until the engine was properly warmed up.
Most of us can remember working on cars in the 1980's or at least working on original 1980's model cars where they had a rats nest of vacuum hose going to EVERYTHING. Evap canister, air cleaner, fuel tank, PCV, brakes, EGR, trans lockup and possibly modulator, exhaust blockoff valve, heater control valve, and the list goes on.
I don't think anybody wants that junk on their hotrod. Most want a simple clean engine bay.
I can easily wire a 700-R4 for 4th gear lockup. It costs me virtually nothing. The normally open 43 psi pressure switch is already there. Simply re-arrange the wiring a bit and you have it. A bit of solder and heat shrink, or electrical connectors. Literally less than .50 cents worth of material and 2-3 minutes.
To build a non-lockup unit takes $30 worth of parts and it's a royal PITA to remove the capsuled checkball from the end of the input shaft.
So from a business perspective, the lockup unit is more profitable and easier (read quicker, again more profitable) to build.
If the customer's car is a street driven car that has a factory ECM that controls lockup (say a Buick Grand National or Monte SS) I usually recommend retaining lockup.
I'm pretty hard headed and in most situations it would seem counterproductive to install the latest technology and only use half the features. i.e. ovedrive tansmission but without the lockup.
However I learned over time that it's not always worth keeping.
The first argument you always hear for retaining lockup was brought up here. Heat. All the "experts" say "OH but without lockup it will overheat and burn up".
I say "We drove cars without a lockup for about 40 years and it wasn't a problem".
The next thing that is said is "Driving below the stall speed at cruise will cause the converter to cook the fluid".
Stall speed is a number that depends on the power input. For any given vehicle/converter combo, the stall speed will vary based on engine power.
Everybody gets hung up on peak power. We all like to toss numbers around. 500 HP, 600 lb/ft of torque, etc.
Engine power varies based on throttle opening.
A converter that stalls 3500 rpm at WOT in a given combo will stall less at 50% throttle and even less at 20% throttle at cruise.
So at cruise, the stall speed is not 3500. You ARE driving at the stall speed at cruise, otherwise it would climb TO the stall speed.
The short answer is YES the converter is what develops heat in the transmission. Yes it will sometimes run slightly warmer with a non-lockup converter. 10-20 degrees. NO it doesn't hurt it if you keep it reasonably within temp range.
We typically see 140-170 degree temps using a lockup converter behind a 1000-1500 HP combo using our 4L80E's. When we unlock the converter and cruise without any huge power input, the temp will range between 160-180. If we make a couple of successive WOT runs through all 4 gears, we'll see it spike to 200-220 degrees.
The typical 700-R4 in a 450 HP combo isn't going to build heat as fast as we are behind a 1200RWHP turbo combo in a 4500 lb truck. If it does, it has inadequate cooling or a really bad converter build.
Having sold hundreds of 200-4Rs and 700-R4s, I learned over time what the capabilities of the average enthusiast are.
Most cannot install an overdrive transmission and "get it right". Many will cook the trans with an improper TV cable setup. More on that later...
Some will hook up the lockup using it as sent with 4th gear lockup. It shifts to 4th, it locks, and they are happy with that. Typically it causes a lugging condition because it shifts to OD, immediatly locks up, and puts the engine in the 1400-1800 rpm range, where our performance cams aren't super happy, the carbureted engine doesn't have great signal through the venturi, and the tuning abilities of the enthusiast leave something to be desired.
*(Some are thinking "I know what I'm doing, I know how to install/tune an engine". And SOME do. Most of them are at the track making a car go really fast. Faster than all the similar combos that occasionally show up at the track. It's not a dig on the "average enthusiast" it's just the truth. Most guys don't put the effort into their combo to get it perfectly tuned ironed out. If they did, everybody would have a wideband in their car and datalog it to get the tune perfect, percentage wise, the number of guys who do this is very low).*
So back to our lugging 450 HP typical street car.
Some guys are happy with it. Some combos work OK this way, milder engine with lots of low speed torque, deeper rear ratio, smallish carb, etc.
Some guys want it to work better (like me). They install a vacuum switch. Vacuum switch works OK. It cuts the lockup out at WOT and idle. You buy an adjustable one and get it "tuned" for best results.
Now you get a hysterisis condition that causes it to unlock going up an incline at cruise, this allows the converter to slip a bit, multiply torque and help keep the car at the desired speed.
Once the engine gains 200-400 rpm with less load, it builds vacuum, and the converter locks again. As soon as it locks, the engine sees the load and has less rpm, it loses vacuum, crosses the threshold of the switch again, and it unlocks.
Enthusiast isn't happy with it.
He's got $2k in the trans, $450 in the converter, $100 in the driveshaft, $75 in the shifter conversion or more, $200 in the crossmember, and a couple hundred more in cooler, lines, fluid, and incidentals. Now he's $50 into a switch that helps but also creates problems.
So in comes the delay valve. It helps kill the hysterisis. Usually at this point. It functions pretty well. That is IF the enthusiast had the patience to get it that far. Most don't.
Many will not buy anything "expensive" to control the lockup.
The $200 lockup control from B&M is a speed based setup that is easily adjustable and works well. Not perfect but well. It really needs to be in conjuction with a vacuum switch, but that gets pretty expensive when all combined and when you start looking at the package, it makes a standalone computer to control an electronic transmission look more appealing.
I've been on the receiving end of guys who have "ran out of talent" a few times and there IS a valid reason I recommend non-lockup in MOST (not all) retrofit applications.
As an example, some guys are running aftermarket EFI on their engines and many can output a signal based on a few parameters that will make the TCC lockup function perfect. In that case, of course keep the lockup. You can tune it to work as intended for no additional cost and no wiring/vacuum mess.
Most cannot install an overdrive transmission and "get it right". Many will cook the trans with an improper TV cable setup. More on that later...
Some will hook up the lockup using it as sent with 4th gear lockup. It shifts to 4th, it locks, and they are happy with that. Typically it causes a lugging condition because it shifts to OD, immediatly locks up, and puts the engine in the 1400-1800 rpm range, where our performance cams aren't super happy, the carbureted engine doesn't have great signal through the venturi, and the tuning abilities of the enthusiast leave something to be desired.
*(Some are thinking "I know what I'm doing, I know how to install/tune an engine". And SOME do. Most of them are at the track making a car go really fast. Faster than all the similar combos that occasionally show up at the track. It's not a dig on the "average enthusiast" it's just the truth. Most guys don't put the effort into their combo to get it perfectly tuned ironed out. If they did, everybody would have a wideband in their car and datalog it to get the tune perfect, percentage wise, the number of guys who do this is very low).*
So back to our lugging 450 HP typical street car.
Some guys are happy with it. Some combos work OK this way, milder engine with lots of low speed torque, deeper rear ratio, smallish carb, etc.
Some guys want it to work better (like me). They install a vacuum switch. Vacuum switch works OK. It cuts the lockup out at WOT and idle. You buy an adjustable one and get it "tuned" for best results.
Now you get a hysterisis condition that causes it to unlock going up an incline at cruise, this allows the converter to slip a bit, multiply torque and help keep the car at the desired speed.
Once the engine gains 200-400 rpm with less load, it builds vacuum, and the converter locks again. As soon as it locks, the engine sees the load and has less rpm, it loses vacuum, crosses the threshold of the switch again, and it unlocks.
Enthusiast isn't happy with it.
He's got $2k in the trans, $450 in the converter, $100 in the driveshaft, $75 in the shifter conversion or more, $200 in the crossmember, and a couple hundred more in cooler, lines, fluid, and incidentals. Now he's $50 into a switch that helps but also creates problems.
So in comes the delay valve. It helps kill the hysterisis. Usually at this point. It functions pretty well. That is IF the enthusiast had the patience to get it that far. Most don't.
Many will not buy anything "expensive" to control the lockup.
The $200 lockup control from B&M is a speed based setup that is easily adjustable and works well. Not perfect but well. It really needs to be in conjuction with a vacuum switch, but that gets pretty expensive when all combined and when you start looking at the package, it makes a standalone computer to control an electronic transmission look more appealing.
I've been on the receiving end of guys who have "ran out of talent" a few times and there IS a valid reason I recommend non-lockup in MOST (not all) retrofit applications.
As an example, some guys are running aftermarket EFI on their engines and many can output a signal based on a few parameters that will make the TCC lockup function perfect. In that case, of course keep the lockup. You can tune it to work as intended for no additional cost and no wiring/vacuum mess.
TV cable.
Dave posted the link to my website and instructions/write-up.
To respond to a few things brought up here.
Everybody has heard the warnings, so it's common knowledge that the TV cable will cause trans failure if not correct.
Most have read enough that they fully understand and can successfully setup the TV cable to be tight at WOT.
What gets missed, as I talk about on the website article, is everything less than WOT.
WOT is 100% throttle opening. The TV cable needs to be AT OR NEAR full pull at this position.
Everybody get's hung up on this because it is what is considered "THE" method. It's considered the standard method because that is the way the OEM service manual states you should do it. And on an OEM car, it SHOULD work everytime. (It doesn't).
When you introduce ANY change to the TV cable, throttle or TV linkage, or even internally to the transmission is changes this.
More in depth manuals state you should check the pressures with a gauge. Ford AOD's even have a TV port to check TV pressure, to ensure it's correct, not just line pressure.
Most of us have introduced change. I introduce it when I build the transmission by increasing line pressure, changing how the TV acts on line pressure at the Line Bias valve, and making mods to the TV circuit itself.
The customer has almost always made changes to the TV or throttle linkage. It's usually made up completely of non OEM parts.
Aftermarket intake, carb, brackets, AND cable.
A typical aftermarket carb or pre-OD Rochester has a ~1.375" measurement from the center of the throttle shaft to the "kickdown" stud location.
A OD era Rochester or throttle body for a GM has a 1.093-1.125" measurement.
That's a ~1/4" difference in the radius measurement.
This makes a big difference in the length of pull of the TV cable from idle to WOT.
The 1.375 radius will move the cable "further" the same way the outside tire has to travel further in a corner than the inside tire.
However there is a set amount of cable travel designed into the transmission TV plunger. If you try to make this travel further, you end up with slack in the cable at idle.
Effectively, you won't have any real TV action until 25% throttle if you have a 1.375" radius and set the cable to be tight at WOT.
So the first 25% of your throttle doesn't do anything for the transmission to increase line pressure, clamp the clutches, and deal with the power transmitted and multiplied by the torque converter.
This also causes the transmission to have less pressure at ranges from 25% TO 99% throttle.
When you watch the line pressure based on TV cable position, you learn a lot. I do it fairly often on our dyno and can confidently say, I probably have more hours doing this than most people.
Line pressure vs. TV position is NOT linear.
If the transmission makes 250 psi at full TV and 80 psi at idle, that's 170 psi of "sweep". 25% is 42.5 psi.
That doesn't mean you will have 122.5 psi at 25% throttle, 165 at 50% throttle, etc.
TV cable movement causes a spike in pressure that will settle back to the commanded pressure. This is a function of line bias.
You will see the greatest increase in pressures just off idle, and more graidual changes in pressure as you get closer to WOT.
If it makes 250 psi at WOT, it only loses around 10 psi (if anything at all) at 90% throttle. It will still be well over 200 psi at 80% throttle.
Dave posted the link to my website and instructions/write-up.
To respond to a few things brought up here.
Everybody has heard the warnings, so it's common knowledge that the TV cable will cause trans failure if not correct.
Most have read enough that they fully understand and can successfully setup the TV cable to be tight at WOT.
What gets missed, as I talk about on the website article, is everything less than WOT.
WOT is 100% throttle opening. The TV cable needs to be AT OR NEAR full pull at this position.
Everybody get's hung up on this because it is what is considered "THE" method. It's considered the standard method because that is the way the OEM service manual states you should do it. And on an OEM car, it SHOULD work everytime. (It doesn't).
When you introduce ANY change to the TV cable, throttle or TV linkage, or even internally to the transmission is changes this.
More in depth manuals state you should check the pressures with a gauge. Ford AOD's even have a TV port to check TV pressure, to ensure it's correct, not just line pressure.
Most of us have introduced change. I introduce it when I build the transmission by increasing line pressure, changing how the TV acts on line pressure at the Line Bias valve, and making mods to the TV circuit itself.
The customer has almost always made changes to the TV or throttle linkage. It's usually made up completely of non OEM parts.
Aftermarket intake, carb, brackets, AND cable.
A typical aftermarket carb or pre-OD Rochester has a ~1.375" measurement from the center of the throttle shaft to the "kickdown" stud location.
A OD era Rochester or throttle body for a GM has a 1.093-1.125" measurement.
That's a ~1/4" difference in the radius measurement.
This makes a big difference in the length of pull of the TV cable from idle to WOT.
The 1.375 radius will move the cable "further" the same way the outside tire has to travel further in a corner than the inside tire.
However there is a set amount of cable travel designed into the transmission TV plunger. If you try to make this travel further, you end up with slack in the cable at idle.
Effectively, you won't have any real TV action until 25% throttle if you have a 1.375" radius and set the cable to be tight at WOT.
So the first 25% of your throttle doesn't do anything for the transmission to increase line pressure, clamp the clutches, and deal with the power transmitted and multiplied by the torque converter.
This also causes the transmission to have less pressure at ranges from 25% TO 99% throttle.
When you watch the line pressure based on TV cable position, you learn a lot. I do it fairly often on our dyno and can confidently say, I probably have more hours doing this than most people.
Line pressure vs. TV position is NOT linear.
If the transmission makes 250 psi at full TV and 80 psi at idle, that's 170 psi of "sweep". 25% is 42.5 psi.
That doesn't mean you will have 122.5 psi at 25% throttle, 165 at 50% throttle, etc.
TV cable movement causes a spike in pressure that will settle back to the commanded pressure. This is a function of line bias.
You will see the greatest increase in pressures just off idle, and more graidual changes in pressure as you get closer to WOT.
If it makes 250 psi at WOT, it only loses around 10 psi (if anything at all) at 90% throttle. It will still be well over 200 psi at 80% throttle.
Yes thank you I probably would of messed it all up if I didnt read this thank you guys for helping me
I have read the same thing about the 200r4. Same length as the Turbo 350, same yoke so no driveshaft shortening. I have also read the transmission mount is farther back on the 200r4, so the crossmember may need to be relocated a bit. I would wait for other members who have performed the swap to confirm.
the 200r4 tranny needs a crossmember swap or modification. It is the same size and dimensions as the th350, but the tranny mount is WAY in the back near the tailshaft requiring either a custom made crossmember or a modified one. Otherwise its a bolt in, but get a tv made ez kit, save the headache of trying to mock up something.
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