[The Big Al]

I am in the middle of a major repair of my 12 bolt rear end.
it's all bad! Why?

The thought the ring gear was bad last year, been making some small noise for a while when car was in coast mode. Noise was in the ring gear.

Well last season I check the drained the gear lube for inspection, all was fine, just a Richmond gear noise nothing major.

I installed CLIMBING GEAR LUBE! Moroso 34800 Gear Oil.

I went to the track a few weeks ago and noticed rear end noise was louder and on the street same result. Less than 1000 miles on car sense oil change. So I decided I would go ahead and change the gear, I want to do this to slow the car down for rules and also better street use and try to keep the car in the 7.50 range for a new heads up class in Atlanta, GA.

Upon tear down and inspection I find, Every bearing is toast, the spider gear idlers in the posi are goaled up. Had to cut the cross pin out with a gas wrench! Wheels bearing have been running dry! Axles are toast!

After further consulting with some company's! This oil should never be used in a open differential, posi or oil bath lubed bearings as in a GM c-clip rear axle. (Unless you put 3 total quarts in) Moroso denies any of this!

This oil has a high self adhesive additive (keeps the oil from slinging) that lubes the ring gear and starves the other parts of the rear end. Seems to be a known cause when talking to some differential builders.

It is also noted that other brand Climbing gear oils do not have the self adhesive additive,(keeps the oil bonded together) they have a material bonding additive, attachés to parts. The oil will separate.
The separation is what allows the oil to travel down the axle and inside the differential. In talking with some other company's that have climbing gear lube say, the Moroso oil gives the "CLIMBING" name a bad one when used in stock configured differential. The biggest problem they hear about is in the 4X4 guys.

The Moroso oil is used in "drag racing" a spool and seal axle bearing that require no lube is sufficient.

This unknown factor will cost me major repair!
All bearings, spider gears set & axles. And maybe a clutch repair in the posi unit. I will have that apart later. (have 2 other projects!)

Snake oil bits again!
Good old 85w-140 with the GM additive is what I should have been using!:yes::yes::yes:

 

[stock z/28]

Hi Al,


Im very sorry to hear about your rear axle troubles.

I have never been a fan of the Moroso lube.


I know you probably dont put a lot of faith in what I say, but up until a few months ago I did a lot of differential service. I generally use Valvoline in standard diffs, but for clutch type Positractions I have had excellent luck with Kendall's Limited Slip gear oil, and sometimes the additive, depending upon circumstances.


I have a lot of literature from various gear oil companies and most if not all do not recommend a standard type oil in a limited slip diff if its for a total oil change or overhaul. I know most list posi use on the bottle but its generally only recommended for "topping off" on service checks.


Take this for what its worth Al, but I am very sorry about your axle troubles.


Jeff

 

[The Big Al]

Hi Al,

I know you probably dont put a lot of faith in what I say,

Jeff

that is a bad assumption my friend!

very bad!

:no:And no truth at all!:no:

We disagree and can disagree very hard!:devil:

We also agree very strongly as well.:yes:

Al

 

[veno]

Dang gummit.. Al....When ya going to learn!:devil:

Sux big time bud....

I would be a little ticked.. ok alot ticked....

have you contacted Moroso about this?

 

[Granny 67]

Good REAL world info.:yes:

Hey BIG dont feel bad. I went to lash the valves last Thursday and #3 intake had..........ooooooooooooo 1/4 inch play. Wiped the cam lobe, Every other lifter/lope looks and mics good. The motor is out and needless to say I wont make the first 7.50 race. I think the MAN above is trying to tell me to put the racing on hold until my new son arrives on the 28th of March.:yes:

Whats the scope on Doug Herbert cams? Looking at a small solid roller.

Scott

 

[The Big Al]

Whats the scope on Doug Herbert cams? Looking at a small solid roller.

Scott

I have always had good results.

Al

 

[jer66nova]

rear

Hey Al, make sure pinion depth is set correct for humming on coast, as well as proper back lash of ring gear to pinion engagement, have seen bearings burned up with improper bearing preloading (as in overtightening when using crush sleeves) any good grade oil will properly lube bearings if filled to proper level not that yours was not, remember the axles are machined to carry the oil to the axle bearings via spirals on the shaft and whole assembly is designed to be splashed lubricated hope I helped but you probably already know what I am talking about, hope you get it fixed soon you have a nice ride!

 

[EVILS 65]

It is also noted that other brand Climbing gear oils do not have the self adhesive additive,(keeps the oil bonded together) they have a material bonding additive, attachés to parts. The oil will separate.
The separation is what allows the oil to travel down the axle and inside the differential. In talking with some other company's that have climbing gear lube say, the Moroso oil gives the "CLIMBING" name a bad one when used in stock configured differential. The biggest problem they hear about is in the 4X4 guys.

I wonder if this includes the Lucas oil stabilizer. I mixed some in my 12 bolt with valvoline 85W140.

 

[The Big Al]

I wonder if this includes the Lucas oil stabilizer. I mixed some in my 12 bolt with valvoline 85W140.

No, not a issue. One of the first I called.

Al

 

[Matt Cramer]

I wonder if this includes the Lucas oil stabilizer. I mixed some in my 12 bolt with valvoline 85W140.

The main complaint I've seen about that one is foaming:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

 

[TomM]

Tough break bro, dang the bad luck....buuuuuttt.......Sounds like you can put that 9" in now.....if you didn't sell it......


T,

 

[D-Man]

Damn dude....That SUCKS!!!

Of course you know Moroso's gonna deny everything and say their lube is just all that and a box of rocks.

I guess I've been lucky so far just sticking to the Valvoline + posi additive.

Well, just like everything else, thanks for sharing your experiences with everyone here. Hopefully it will save someone else the same headache.

 

[The Big Al]

Tough break bro, dang the bad luck....buuuuuttt.......Sounds like you can put that 9" in now.....if you didn't sell it......


T,

i should have!

I spent 300.00 for gear and install kit.

170.00 on new spider gear set for posi.

300.00 for new axles, studs, & nuts
they had to be special order from Moser, the flange has to be 6.1/8 dia. to clear the disc brake hats, they had no problem with it. No extra-Charge! for the flange change!

So I could have easily built the 9 inch.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

 

[bowtie0069]

I buy whatever is the cheapest! Never had any trouble with the old 12-bolt except chipping a couple teeth on a ring gear. But I've had a spool in there since the early 90's.

 

[The Big Al]

I buy whatever is the cheapest! Never had any trouble with the old 12-bolt except chipping a couple teeth on a ring gear. But I've had a spool in there since the early 90's.

I wish I had done the same!

Al

 

[levisnteeshirt]

caterpillar 50 weight

i used to service Cat equipment , i got tired of buying expensive synthetic oil for the transmissions of my trucks , so I started using Cat 50 weight gear oil in the transmissions ( class A ) of my trucks. Always wondered how it would do in the rear axle of a car and it should have less drag than 90 weight.

If its good enough for the final drive systems of a D11 , it should be tough enough for anything. My trucks transmissions ran just as cool the 50 weight Cat gear oil in it than it did with the syn. oil.

 

[monzaz]

Differential fluid

We build Muscle car diffs here in Richfield, Oh. Never cared for any of the trick oil garbage. I jokingly tell my customers that I do not care if you put motor oil in the rear JUST BE SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF FLUID IN THE REAR.... LOL.

C-clip rears and internally oil axle bearings really need that oil so even a good tipping up of the passenger side when filling the diff can get a bit more juice in the rear. BUT never over fill too much as it will blow out all the seals in the rear. Jim

Al sorry to here about your trouble hope the next run goes better. Jim

 

[levisnteeshirt]

85/140

I wonder if this includes the Lucas oil stabilizer. I mixed some in my 12 bolt with valvoline 85W140.

I had great luck with valvoline 85/140 in the rearends of my trucks. I tried regular 90 weight ,, it would do ok for a day or 2 , then it would peg 300 degrees on the next load pulling through the mountains of WV. 85/140 is the only thing that would take the abuse.

 

[JBimmolate]

I too use the 85-140wt & 80-90wt GL5 Non Synthetic gear oil, W/the additive when used in a posi diff.

Miles

 

[Nova73J]

Ok now you guys got me worried. I just switched gears in my nova that has an auburn pro posi and moser c clip elim. I used royal purple gear lube. I have only driven it onto the trailer and into the garage. Am I ok with this lube or should I change?