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Transmission dilemma (700r4 currently)

3K views 61 replies 16 participants last post by  QuickII 
#1 ·
Its time for a rebuild. I have a 70 Nova with a BBC 454 and 12 bolt posi 4.11 rear end. I currently have an old 700r4 that was rebuilt about 6 years ago and is on its last legs.

In some ways I have been so tired of dealing with the TV cable and all the stupid quirks that the 700r4's have, but Sonnax have designed and made a rebuild kit that pretty much makes it just like the 4L75 (Which is way out of my budget). I am on a strict $4000 budget (Which generally would be a rebuild, not something new), so any 4L80e or something along those lines is very much out of the question.

I am rolling around the idea of possibly going with a manual 5 speed. Will these fit without having to redo the tunnel? I am seeing these anywhere from $1800-3000.

What are my options guys? Before you say go with a 4L80e, keep in mind I would have to also buy the controller, a new drive shaft, speedo adapter kit, plus labor. Its just not in my budget for that this season.

Is there any other ideas so that I can get rid of this darn TV cable and potentially weak 700r4?

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#2 ·
Its time for a rebuild. I have a 70 Nova with a BBC 454 and 12 bolt posi 4.11 rear end. I currently have an old 700r4 that was rebuilt about 6 years ago and is on its last legs.

In some ways I have been so tired of dealing with the TV cable and all the stupid quirks that the 700r4's have, but Sonnax have designed and made a rebuild kit that pretty much makes it just like the 4L75 (Which is way out of my budget). I am on a strict $4000 budget (Which generally would be a rebuild, not something new), so any 4L80e or something along those lines is very much out of the question.

I am rolling around the idea of possibly going with a manual 5 speed. Will these fit without having to redo the tunnel? I am seeing these anywhere from $1800-3000.

What are my options guys? Before you say go with a 4L80e, keep in mind I would have to also buy the controller, a new drive shaft, speedo adapter kit, plus labor. Its just not in my budget for that this season.

Is there any other ideas so that I can get rid of this darn TV cable and potentially weak 700r4?

View attachment 458095
I don't have a trans idea for you. Just wanted to say love the car looks almost identical to my old 69. Ernie.
 
#3 ·
I’m just finishing up a 4l60 to a manual swap on my 74. If your budget is strictly 4000 and you have to pay labor you’ll want to get a trans around that 1800 range as 3000 won’t leave you much room. Just like the 4l80 you will have other expenses.
Clutch pedal
Master and slave or linkage.
Flywheel
Clutch
Bellhousing (if the trans does not have one)
Pilot bearing
Either way you go you will need to lengthen or shorten your driveshaft, no need to replace.
Possibly a shifter depending on what trans you find
Possible Speedo adapter
Shifter boot
Nuts bolts and misc hardware
Labor.
If you find a trans for 3k, do all the labor yourself you will be really tight, with labor, you’ll blow right past your 4K budget. With an 1800 trans paying labor you’ll be tight, I’m assuming the price ranges reflect condition/mileage of transmissions so there’s that to think of as well.
Whichever way you go post the progress on the swap!
Best wishes on your project!!


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#4 ·
Oh, and a brake pedal or modify your current one. I cut off the brake pedal from the lever, bent the lever and made a new pedal the same shape as the clutch pedal and welded it on.

Just trying to add a little insight, I’m hoping to have mine finished up or at least close today.

With most 5 speeds I believe there’s little to no tunnel work, with a t56 there’s a lot more room needed, that thing is BIG.

I was able to do a t56 swap for under 4K but it was labor intense to go that cheap and did all the labor myself. To pay someone else to do it would have been huge money. To pay labor on a 5 speed swap is not as bad as a 6 speed but will still swallow your money quickly.


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#18 ·
The biggest question is, how much of the labor and wrenching are you doing yourself? A $4,000 budget isn't much for anything, especially if you're paying someone else to rebuild a unit for you.

My 2 cents: Now is the time to make the switch to a better transmission, stick or otherwise. The 700R4's gearing is horrible for a performance application, and the amount of work that's required to make it live behind any sort of power is eclipsed by an otherwise-stock 4l80e. You can reasonably do a 4l80E for ~$3k, but you have to be handy enough to get a trans from a wrecking yard, buy one off somebody else, and do some fab work to make it fit in your car now. Standalone trans controllers exist, as do full manual valve bodies.

I got a quote a little over a year ago for a complete swap kit for a TKX 5-speed for my car, and all told, the kit was $5,200. That included every but nut and bolt required to swap it to a manual transmission. But, I was on the hook for all the labor and work, which is well within my capabilities. If someone else has to do the work, that's an easy $2-3k on top.
 
#21 ·
The biggest question is, how much of the labor and wrenching are you doing yourself? A $4,000 budget isn't much for anything, especially if you're paying someone else to rebuild a unit for you.

My 2 cents: Now is the time to make the switch to a better transmission, stick or otherwise. The 700R4's gearing is horrible for a performance application, and the amount of work that's required to make it live behind any sort of power is eclipsed by an otherwise-stock 4l80e. You can reasonably do a 4l80E for ~$3k, but you have to be handy enough to get a trans from a wrecking yard, buy one off somebody else, and do some fab work to make it fit in your car now. Standalone trans controllers exist, as do full manual valve bodies.

I got a quote a little over a year ago for a complete swap kit for a TKX 5-speed for my car, and all told, the kit was $5,200. That included every but nut and bolt required to swap it to a manual transmission. But, I was on the hook for all the labor and work, which is well within my capabilities. If someone else has to do the work, that's an easy $2-3k on top.
Thanks for chiming in. I don't have the skill, knowledge, or even time to take on a trans build myself. So any 4l80e option in the end will be a minimum of $7k after all said and done. Same for the 4l75e I was looking into.

However Sonnax creates a full rebuild kit that makes the 700r4 pretty much just like the 4l75e and handles up to 650HP. I think they have redesigned all its components or used some from the 4l75e. I can do this build out the door with all parts and labor including converter etc. for just under $5k in the end. So far this is my best option.
 
#24 ·
You know, additional food for thought: Why not dump the 700R4 and install a TH400? They're bomb-proof with some minor mods, torque converters are affordable, and there are lots of options for budget. You can buy a brand new, performance built unit for ~$2,400. Torque converter is ~$500.

The obvious downside is, no overdrive. But, if you're just having fun with the car, just endure a year of no highway trips and save up for a Gear Vendors, or change the rear gears to something more highway-friendly for less money.
 
#26 ·
You know, additional food for thought: Why not dump the 700R4 and install a TH400? They're bomb-proof with some minor mods, torque converters are affordable, and there are lots of options for budget. You can buy a brand new, performance built unit for ~$2,400. Torque converter is ~$500.

The obvious downside is, no overdrive. But, if you're just having fun with the car, just endure a year of no highway trips and save up for a Gear Vendors, or change the rear gears to something more highway-friendly for less money.
It's good food for thought. I can't go with a 400 because I have 4.11 rear gears.

What is Gear Vendors?
 
#28 ·
So in considering saving up for a higher end stronger trans, what is the best way to go? I was considering the GM Performance 4l75e but they don't have anymore.

Are there any good reputable online companies that will build me one without needing a core first?
 
#33 ·
I just got off the phone with Ryan at PerformaBuilt. Their customer service is awesome! Talked with him for almost 40 minutes. He really suggest building me a same sized drop in 4L60e making it handle up to 700HP. He really seems to know what he's doing.

Any thoughts on the 4L60e trans? Any bad experiences?
 
#35 ·
Ryan does know his stuff, Their customer service is great. 4l60e's got a bad rap from years of issues. Modern EXPERIENCED builders and aftermarket parts have resolved many of the issues. A build 4l60 will never take more than a built 80. Nobody is claiming it. But a properly build 60 will work great. 80's have large rotating mass. Not typically good for high rpm applications. Yes yes, people do it. I'm just saying compared to a 60... 25 year ago if you told gm engineers you could put 1000hp to a 4l60e, they'd laugh at you. Guess what, you can today.

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#44 ·
I have a 700 r4 with a TCI constant pressure valve body. As others have stated you still have to run a TV cable but it just adjust shift firmness. I don't like a lazy shift so I have mine adjusted to shift a little firm. I have several thousand trouble free miles on mine with a fairly healthy 385. I run the Lokar TV cable set up and it was fairly simple to install.

If you are going to throw a lot of power at it I would advise to move away from the 700r4. There is a lot of difference between 450 hp and 700 to 750. In a street car you can usually get away with running more HP because the tires will spin and that takes a little load off the transmission/ driveline. If you are really planting or dead hooking it puts more strain on things.
 
#47 ·
The gear vendor unit is around $2800, a TH350 or TH400 transmission is going to be around $1500. Crossmember is going to be $100ish, torque convertor is going to be dependent on what you get. If you're not doing this yourself, you're paying for labor also. The driveshaft you currently have can likely be reused by throwing a new slip yoke on it and cutting it down but it's goign to cost to have done, not much. A new driveshaft I just bought ran me about $450ish.

All in all, you're going to be into a gear vendors setup WITH a new transmission for around 5K plus labor, but I think it's a pretty good solution to your problem. If it were me, I'd look at doing this in phases. Get yourself a solid TH400 that can handle what you're putting down and then do the gear vendors part later. It will keep you from spending a small fortune on the car all at once, you'll be able to drive the car and such -- you just won't be taking it for long hauls without winding out the motor. Then, when the time is right, snag the gear vendors unit and get that installed.
 
#49 ·
Its time for a rebuild. I have a 70 Nova with a BBC 454 and 12 bolt posi 4.11 rear end. I currently have an old 700r4 that was rebuilt about 6 years ago and is on its last legs. In some ways I have been so tired of dealing with the TV cable and all the stupid quirks that the 700r4's have, but Sonnax have designed and made a rebuild kit that pretty much makes it just like the 4L75 (Which is way out of my budget). I am on a strict $4000 budget (Which generally would be a rebuild, not something new), so any 4L80e or something along those lines is very much out of the question. I am rolling around the idea of possibly going with a manual 5 speed. Will these fit without having to redo the tunnel? I am seeing these anywhere from $1800-3000. What are my options guys? Before you say go with a 4L80e, keep in mind I would have to also buy the controller, a new drive shaft, speedo adapter kit, plus labor. Its just not in my budget for that this season. Is there any other ideas so that I can get rid of this darn TV cable and potentially weak 700r4? "Painless Wiring" kit should solve most of your issues. Still, a rebuild is highly advisable. Best of luck! View attachment 458095
 
#59 ·
If it's of any use, my brother runs a PATC 700R4 "Level 3" Raptor in his rock crawling, sand dune racing truck. It has a reasonably hot 383, probably weighs 5000+ lbs, has steep gears and a 4.3:1 transfer case, 42" tall tires. I know it's different than a street car but in my opinion rock crawling trucks are much harder on driveline parts.

He's blown up a Dana 60 detroit locker but the transmission hasn't skipped a beat since he put it in more than 10 years ago.

Chris.
 
#60 ·
Okay I just checked the Holley 4L80E and theirs only comes with a 90 day warranty plus no free shipping like the Performa Built one. So that means pretty much no warranty at all by the time I get it put in by a shop.

Any other 4L80E's that are built from a reputable shop that will beat all the details on the Performan Built 4L60e? I am open to input and so far nothing is beating the Performa Built 4L60e package.
 
#62 ·
Internet search can find you a bunch of 4L80E's for a lot less than $9000
Here are a few that I came up with on a quick search
Stay away from Monster Transmissions

 
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