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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 65 Sedan I am putting a 427 SB in. I am trying to decide whether to cage the car or not and if so can I get away with a 6 point.

The set up is-

427 CI
Dart Little M
Dart Pro 1 215CC Runner
Crower SS Roller Rockers
~10.5 to 1 CR
~.600 lift solid roller
Victor JR
Quick Fuel 900CFM
Ford 9" 3.89 gears
4-link rear suspension
Minitub with 275 50/15 ET Streets
Tremec TKO600 5 speed
1 7/8th headers 3" exhaust
I am expecting a solid 500HP possibly in the 530 to 550HP range 500+ torque

I would think if I can get it to hook it should run low 11's.

I am getting ready to put the motor and tranny in, the car is far enough apart if I am gonna put a cage in it, ow is a good time.

Thoughts? Am I correct thinking low 11's assuming I get it to hook?

TIA
 

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To cage...... :yes:
Better safe than sorry, 11 seconds is fast enough to hurt you. :eek:

How much time do you plan on spending at the track?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
To cage...... :yes:
Better safe than sorry, 11 seconds is fast enough to hurt you. :eek:

How much time do you plan on spending at the track?
I plan to go a few weekends every year but I know that could easily turn into more due to the addiction factor. I had a bike I used to take to the track, never run a car before though.

I guess I am curious as to what the minimum cage would be to provide the safety without interfering with the looks and function of the car. One of the reasons I went with the 5 speed is the OD so I can drive it wherever I want.
 

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Just put the cage in it now! If you get it to run some low low 11's your just a 250 hit away from a 9.90, you wont have to rip the car apart again, and any good chassis shop can tuck a full cage in these cars so they do not interfere with anything, like the light switch, glove box, etc, and hardly be visible.

My 63 I just put a 6 point in it at first. Planned on a low 11 second car, that was it.
2 years later, I was getting booted for goin to fast.
 

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if you run 11.49 or quicker you will need a roll bar or cage. roll cages are mandatory if you run 10.99 or quicker or any car exceeding 135 mph cars running 7.50 to 9.99 must have chassis inspected every three years by nhra and have a serialized sticker affixed to cage before participation. now i beleive a 6 point roll bar is good to 10.99 thats when you will need to switch to a cage an 8 point cage is good to 9.99 i think and the 10 point is good to 8.99 anything faster and you will actually need to build a chassis i think i dont know also try www.nhra.com

although my car runs low 12s i went ahead and ordered a 10 point cage from ca chassis works its a 4130 cage with swing out door bars ive been told and also witnessed a guy get an 8.50 sfi sticker for his cage he also has a 63 chevy II. i went with a 10 point so i could have the upper halo and front down bars for that much more protection
 

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I would. Safety, track safety rules, and chassis regidity. 3 very good reasons to do it.
And u never know when u might encounter sever bump steer at about 120mph.
I had a 63 Chevy ll years ago that went 10:90's with a 9" tire and a 331" motor.
I sprayed it and it scraped the bumper and went 10:40's..........so your combination should go into the tens ez..........do the cage!
 

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I would. Safety, track safety rules, and chassis regidity. 3 very good reasons to do it.
And u never know when u might encounter sever bump steer at about 120mph.
I had a 63 Chevy ll years ago that went 10:90's with a 9" tire and a 331" motor.
I sprayed it and it scraped the bumper and went 10:40's..........so your combination should go into the tens ez..........do the cage!
i agree with him :yes:
 

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I would just do subframe connectors, but that's just me. My track doesn't require a cage for TNT and I like a sleeper look.
 

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[
I guess I am curious as to what the minimum cage would be to provide the safety without interfering with the looks and function of the car. One of the reasons I went with the 5 speed is the OD so I can drive it wherever I want.[/QUOTE]
Minimum cage for minimum driver, eh?........

if your not willing to protect yourself, do it for others in your life who might like you.. :)

think of the performance aspect... it will go quicker & react faster with a cage .

you are taking the worse designed car GM ever made, & putting 3 times the
power it was made for..plus better traction.

On the other hand , it is kinda' kool when the windshield pops out on the starting line.
 

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On the other hand , it is kinda' kool when the windshield pops out on the starting line.

LMAO! :rotfl: Put a cage in it and dont look back. I have been debating the same question and I'm only running low 12s. I plan to put one in once I get into the 11's even though it is really a street car. No matter how you do it, it will impact the look of the car, but better to be have the protection than to wish you did after the fact.
 

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put the cage in before getting the car done up with nice interior and nice paint. i built my '69 car without a cage at first, even though i knew the car should run in the 10's if it ever hooked. i waited a 6 months before having the $ then put one in. makes the car more responsive imo.

if you're running the tko you should consider doing different things to the trans as well as running a better clutch. problems you'll run into with that TKO are: high rpm shifts, power shifting, and the clutch will limit how you launch and your 60' times. I was able to get my TKO to propel me to 11.24 in the 1/4 and the two times I took it to the 1/8 mile track it did 7.08 despite adding 150#'s for the cage. 60' times were a dismal 1.66 while launching at 3500rpm. i HAD to let off the gas between gears or else i had trouble making the next gear. the clutch i ran was a centerforce dual friction which had burn marks on it and was sliding the friction material away from the rivets. that clutch hit HARD and never really allowed my car to hook up well. I'm installing a soft lok clutch this coming week once I get my disc back, and i had the TKO 500 modified to be a TKO 600 with the liberty's gears faceplating. everyone i've talked to says the car should run at least 1-2 tenths quicker, if not more. we'll see... I wanna see the car do 6.80's in the 1/8 and hopefully 10.70's in the 1/4. we'll see if that happens though.

your car having a bigger motor and being lighter should run 10's if it ever gets traction. 10's should be EASY in that car actually. for this reason alone you should step up to a minimum of a 6 point roll bar. good luck, and make sure to keep us posted with pics and results.
 

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forgot to mention:

i did that 11.24 at 125mph. 125mph should be a 10.6x ish 1/4 mile time. that's assuming everything went ideally... so because of a lackluster shifting ability and hard-hitting clutch the car was missing out on 0.6 or so seconds of 1/4 mile time. what a waste...

you should think about that when putting your car together. and don't expect to lift the front tires too much, as they will almost undoubtedly break loose upon side stepping the clutch
 

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If the car has mini-tubs and a 4-link, I'm assuming you have changed the back frame rails? If so, you need a cage at 10.99. If the factory floor and frame hasn't been cut up (the tubs are okay), then a 5-point roll bar will get you to 10.00 or 135 mph.

Since you mentioned a street/strip use, I'll tell you from my Nova having a 5-point bar for 3 years and now a cage, the cage will take away a little room depending on how it is bent. But I have a tilt column and swing-out side bars which are a big thing for me since I still drive mine on the street and sometimes to the track as well. I did the cage during my recent 2 year resto/upgrade project b/c I knew the car wouldn't be getting any slower in the future.

Just my opinion, but I'd hope your engine makes 550-600 hp and depending on the weight gets you at least low 11s with traction.

Derek
 

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hmm

the cage will keep you and your car alive. I had a 64 that had frame rails and was tubbed without a cage when i got it. It would twist like a pretzel. I used out riggers coming from the frame rails and tied all the tubes to either those or the frame rails. Made the car 100 % better and only slightly more agrivating to get in and out of. This and ( can't stand it , gotta say it ) limiting the front wheel travel made the car where seemingly i could let go of the steering wheel after 60ft and the car would track a very straight pass.
 

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I plan on going 11.70 footbraking and did a mini tub, tied the frame rails together and the rear frame. Added a S&W 8 point roll bar and the car is as solid as a rock. Plus I feel a heck of a lot safer in it. If the car has a stock firewall and floor pan, you can run a 8 point roll bar all the way to 10.0's. That's in both I and NHRA. And if you run 11.49 without one, the track can bounce you. Better to be safe. Dave
 

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600 RWHP in a hooked up 3200 lbs car is 9.90 @ 135 mph

you're a good plate kit away
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for all the responses.

The original frame rails are still in the car.

Who makes the best cage kit to start with on a Chevy II?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
forgot to mention:

i did that 11.24 at 125mph. 125mph should be a 10.6x ish 1/4 mile time. that's assuming everything went ideally... so because of a lackluster shifting ability and hard-hitting clutch the car was missing out on 0.6 or so seconds of 1/4 mile time. what a waste...

you should think about that when putting your car together. and don't expect to lift the front tires too much, as they will almost undoubtedly break loose upon side stepping the clutch
My tranny came with an upgraded clutch but I can't remember the brand off hand. It's not a center force or dual friction I don't think.

Your basically saying a little slip is better?
 

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My tranny came with an upgraded clutch but I can't remember the brand off hand. It's not a center force or dual friction I don't think.

Your basically saying a little slip is better?
an 'upgraded' clutch is still probably an organic clutch that's basically an on/off switch. even if it's one of McLeod's street twin clutches it'll still gonna be rough on the drivetrain. when you hook up with a hard hitting clutch something has to give, usually the tires, sometimes a u-joint, sometimes the axle tubes (ask me how I know), sometimes the clutch (ask me how I know that one, too), sometimes the transmission and sometimes a ring gear or any other weak point in the driveline. a slipper type clutch allows for a controlled amount of 'give' in the system. I'm new to all of this, but have gathered from experience and talking to people that some 'give' in the clutch that is controlled is the best thing to keep from breaking parts. if the tires hook up too much the clutch gives and you still get optimum traction while not destroying something. again, i'm far from being considered knowledgeable on this stuff, but i do have a rough understanding of the concepts. i've not raced with a slipper just yet, but when the car gets reassembled i will give a full report.

if your car is a driver mostly and occasionally goes to the track a $1200+ clutch ($1800 if it's a McLeod, $2800 if it's an Advanced Clutches unit, i did NOT pay that for mine, as i'm too cheap and the unit was used) might be too much as well as too difficult to drive all the time. the hub is unsprung and chatter is commonly reported with use. if it's misadjusted you can fry it on the street in a second. it's a lot of maintenance for just a cruiser. if you race mostly then go for it. i debated for a long time, and when it came down to it it only made sense for me to go with the big dog type unit.
 

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Marcellus, I wonder how you have the capacity to come up with such a power plant yet have no idea what chassis will handle it, not to mention basic NHRA rules that ANY BODY can obtain, especially those with deep enough pockets to have an engine like yours at there disposal. You spec a 5 speed so you can have overdrive, yet you spec a 3.89 rear gear. You spec a four link, is this a true drag race type 4 link or one of those rodder 4 links (I think they call it parallel arm suspension). You can't fit a drag race 4 link in that car without removing so much floor that it would require you to add at least a roll bar anyway. You state the vehicle has stock frame rails with a 9" and four link. Not saying it can't be done, just never seen such.
When you race your motorcycle you can feel when something is loose or not true. You know right where the fault is. That is because the chassis is tight with no flex. Still wonder about a cage?
 
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