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Discussion Starter #1
I guess Im the first one here to install the CPP lower A-arm setup so I thought Id do a little write-up about it.

Here are the main pieces that come with the kit(with the ball joints installed):


Im lucky enough to have a shop to work in so it made the job that much easier!



Here is a couple before shots of the front suspension:



The suspension removal is very simple and straightforward. The only PIA is removing the rivets that hold the strut rod buckets(mounts). I started by cutting one with a cutting wheel but after about 5 minutes and very little progress I brought out my air chisel. The old rivets are very hard so they took between 5 and 10 minutes a piece to remove(10 total). This step is by far the most time consuming. A punch worked good to clear the holes once the rivet head was chiseled off. When it was all done it looked something like this:



Here is the removed parts:


Next you will need to remove(or just move) the radiator to access the front 4 holes where the rivets used to be to remove the remaining part of the rivet and put in the new bolts for the CPP A-arm subframe. The bolt head must be on the top(radiator side) and the nut on the bottom- if you try to install it the other way the radiator will hit the nut.

The subframe goes on next- its pretty simple and self explanatory. I put in the subframe with only hand tightening the bolts- this made fitting the A-arms in MUCH easier. The A-arms are a pretty tight fit but they fit. If you are working on your back you may be cussing and yelling, but I would'nt know anything about that!:D Make sure you follow CPP's directions when installing the eccentric bolts into the arms. After the eccentric bolts were in, I tightened up the subframe. Then I installed the ball joints- pretty self explanatory. GOOD NEWS: MY GIANT 1 1/8" SWAY BAR FITS!!! And thats pretty much it! It took me a total of about 4 hours including an alignment for this job- not too bad. Here is what it looks like when its done:





Here are a couple pics showing the swaybar clearance. Its a pretty close fit, but everything clears nicely and does not hit! Keep in mind my car is at stock height- if your car is lowered the large swaybar with probably hit.



Lastly I did an alignment. I dont use the exact specs for 1st and 2nd gen Novas- I found some slight changes to be very helpful with comfortable street driving and high speed stability for the race track. Alignment was very easy with the two sets of eccentrics. I will check the alignment again after I put some miles on it.

 

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Discussion Starter #2
Initial Driving Impressions

After I finished the install I went for a short drive(about 15 miles) and I must say I am happy with the results. The front end feels VERY solid- the sloppy feeling of the control arms moving laterally and twisting is gone. The suspension feels nice and tight to where Im not afraid of turning a corner at more than 10 mph! There are no clunks, creeks, squeeks, or anything else of the sort. The car is still road crown sensitive so I will try to improve it by adding a little caster on the passenger side when I recheck my alignment. On flat roads it tracks nice and straight. The car is also very stable and predictable at high speeds(I only went about 80mph). I will have more feedback as I drive it more.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
SuperSport said:
do you think this will solve all the first and second gen's alignment problems?
So far so good- I checked the eccentrics after my drive and they did not move. Alignment was also much easier- with the stock suspension on the laser alignment machine the measurements would jump around without me even touching the adjustments. When I aligned this kit the measurements stayed put.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
JBimmolate said:
Did it by any chance move the tire back for more front fender clearance? I doubt it but thought I would ask.

Miles:D
No- I wish! I only have about 1/2" clearance from my tire to the front fender.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Greg_R_63 said:
Question- about how much torque did you put on those eccentrics? I know that Lee recommended 100lbs on the stock setup.
I didnt torque them but I probably tightened them to about 60 ft-lbs. We'll see how it holds up- but Im pretty confident they wont move.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Mad_Max said:
Question for you, is that a heat barrier of some sort that you have wrapped around your trans lines? If so, what is it called?, does it work? and where do you get it?
I have some heat wrap meant for exhaust held on with aluminum tape over the trans lines. On top of that I wrapped the lines with some rubber type tape that has no adhesive- but it bonds to itself. I believe it is similar to "duckseal". I bought it at a rally race I was in from a vendor in the pits- so I have no idea where to get it now! I put that on there to keep anything from rubbing through the aluminum tape.
 

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CPP Tubular Arms

Still haven't got mine in but did talk again to Jim at CPP. Really a nice, concerned car guy. He's still watching the posts and taking the suggestions and criticisms to heart. OK, heres the latest, Jim and the creative minds would like some input on whether shorter arms (both these lowers and their "new uppers") would be desireable. They are looking for input and any advice regarding the possible change in length from stock. Lets see what people say as it might help the developement of some cool new stuff. If I can get Jim's approval I'll see if photos of the new upper are available. You know cool spy photos. Please help with your thoughts

Sean

PS NOGO I sent you a pm:rolleyes:
 

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CPP is our Nova's best friend

I love this set up and according to Brian (NOGO) it seem to work great too.

1) Does it eliminate the need for a lock out kit?

2) Is there a tubular Upper A arm coming and will it have a differnet offset for camber adjustment?

3) Does CPP offer different front springs to enhance this kit?


James:D
 

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Discussion Starter #10
FunkyNova66 said:
Hey Nogo:

I am sure this question has been answered but how exactly do you set Caster with this set up? and...do the lower/rear eccentrics adjust camber like the stock suspension. What does the lower/front eccentrics adjust?:eek:

Sorry for the dumb questions.:D

Dave:beer:
Caster is set from the relation of the two eccentrics on each arm at the same time. Essentially, you have to set caster AND camber at the same time. This can be a little tricky for an alignment newbie, but since there are MANY vehicles with this type of alignment adjustment, your average alignment tech should be able to set it pretty quick(It took me about 30 min).
 

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I know some people have been sceptical about the use of eccentrics but I could see how you wouldn't need a lock out. as nogo said there are many cars with this design... and there are many differnt cars that use essentrics with out any problems. Besides, with 2 essentrics for each lower control arm, it would relive a lot of the stress that the stock setup puts on one ecentric.
 

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OMG! What a difference!

Holy smokes batman!! I just finished up the install of the new tube control arms. These babies are worth every freakin' penny! Not only are they nice quality pieces that come powder coated, but they make all the difference in the world. I just took mine around the block, but the improvement on ride and just the "solid feel" was astonishing! I can honestly say that was the best $350 that I have spent in a long long time....Cant wait for them to come out with some more improvements, because I am sold on thier products!

Jack
 

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For some reason, welded A-arms scare me for street driving. I'd be worried about QC on the welds, as I've seen many photos of welded arms for other vehicles that broke on potholes, etc.

I am SURE CPP does not have the budget for extensive fatigue testing (nor do any of the other companies making this stuff), so I think I'll wait for the "field test" data to come in. ;)

Not knocking CPP... there are just some areas where I feel better running factory stuff that was engineered by GM and proven over 40 or so years.
 

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The stress in an racing car, that uses A-arms in tubular steel thats welded is greater than factory paerts exposed for ordinary driving even for 40 years or more,

Ive helping in a racing team home build and with tubular a-arms thats welded and every race lasts fore ½ hour testing ½ hour time qualifying and 3 hour race WOT to near stop kurves and straits hitting the curbs and rubbing other weikles in a 3 (sometimes 8 ) hour battle and this is for season to season Ive been in this team for a couple of years now and we never have had anya problems with the A-arms and welds.. cluthes, brakes, tires, and damagde body parts, broken transmissions and so on.. but not the A-arms..

AND this weekend we where racing again and a couple of racing insidents ocured... som fender benders and rearending, not much we finished the race :D broke the cluths and servo stearing pump.. thats racing.

We did a checkup on all parts and found a crac in one of the tubes to one A-arm but NOT in the weld..

So I consider these parts (tubular A-arms) to be better than stock..
MY opinion.

Ps many racers that uses ther nova on the streets do a boxWeld on the stock lover arm so it will bee stiffer and hold better... thats how good stockparts are. Ds
 

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laser-red-nova said:
I don't understand the 2" ground clearance. Does it mean with this kit you will only have 2" of clearance? Thats not very much. Help me understand.
The kit provides and additional 2" of ground clearance in the front by removing the strut rod braces from the original setup on the front subframe.

Removing these braces provides additional ground clearance up front. It doesn't reduce ground clearance to 2". That'd be insane. :)
 

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63AKDN said:
A stupid question or thought though..........

Since the strut rod is eliminated, I assume that it has nothing to do with aligning, but only to prevent front-to-back movement of the flimsy lower arm on these beasts??
The strut rod adjusts the Caster. Tighten the strut rod (shorten) and you gain caster (+) as it pulls the lower control arm towards the front of the car, you losen the strut rod (lengthen) and you lose caster (-) as it pushes the lower control arm back.

With the CPP kit, NOGO states the caster and camber are a simultaneous adjustment since there are eccentrics on both front and rear of the lower A-frame control arm.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.:D

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Update!

Sunday was my first chance to put the CPP kit to the real test. I drove about40 miles to the races yesterday, raced all day, drove back home, then went cruising down the beach for a couple hours. I did everything from 60-70 mph freeway cruising, city/beach traffic driving, and high speed racing without a glitch. The kit has basically solidified an otherwise weak and unstable front end. The car drives noticably straighter and is less sensitive to changes in road conditions. It is also more stable at high speeds and under heavy braking. I feel much more comfortable when Im doing 100+ mph(legally...of course:D )!

Also, its important to note that too much front caster can cause front tire to front fender interference!!! I noticed yesterday that I had less than .25" of clearance between my left side tire and the front edge of my fender when my wheel was turned about 120 degrees to the left!!! So much for my "little" extra caster! I was going to put more caster in the RF anyway to help with our terrible road crown here in LA, but Ill just take it out of the left side instead!
 

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CPP tubular arms

Well it took a while but the CPP tubular A arms are in (the deluxe) kit. Took a little over 4 1/2 hours from statrt to finish, but man do the look and drive great. I'll post some pictures in the next few days, just wish I'd had more time to clean up the underbody. That will be another project. Went with the 1.5 lower springs but ended up droppping the car nearly 2.25 inches. Now I need to consider either dropping the back or new stock springs. The alignment tech had no problems with the set up and did a great job of dialing it in. Great kit in my opinion. Where's the uppers?:D

Sean
 

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Can you guys share the alignment specs and how does it drive? I'm talking about uneven road pulling, braking, front end feeling planted, cornering, turning tight in parking spaces? etc. :D :D

I just finished my front end with ALL brand new parts and I absolutely hate it. :( I am ordering this kit within the next few days.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
sr67ss said:
OK Funky heres the specs from the alignment tech. They are his settings and seem to work great so far. Car tracks straight, no pulling on braking and the entire front feels glued to the road. Both myself and my buddy (Saab master mech) drove the car before and after. Andy said much less wander and felt it tightened up the steering greatly. No sqeaks or creaks, very tight with new KYB's and CPP springs. I'll post the numbers, but maybe NOGO can comment on what they really mean.

Camber left right
.6 .6
Caster 2.3 3.8
Toe .29 .33

Front
Cross Camber 0.0
Cross caster -1.5
Cross Sai -1.4
Total Toe .62

PS The car was driven at 65-70 mph 35 miles home on freeway. Test drove next day on 2 lane rural roads. Hope this helps- Photos to follow

Sean



Total Toe .62
I dont think these measurements are in degrees- can you clarify Sean? To be honest, I have always done my alignments in reference to degrees to I cant convert these numbers to make sense in my head if it isnt. If they are- the toe in and positive camber is a little excessive, and there is FAR too much caster and cross caster.
 
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