Chevy Nova Forum banner

21 - 40 of 50 Posts
I

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I've seen/worked on at least 10 of the SAGINAW integral O/D transmissions, so I know they exist, and none of the ones I saw were built from a kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Hello,

Well I guess I will keep looking Dave.

I will try the local Chev, dealer tomorrow and see if I can find it listed in a GM service or overhaul manual.


I have a pretty good catalog that lists parts (gears-shafts-syncs-etc) and doesn't list anything in a 4 spd od..

If you have any additional info let me know, I would appreciate it. In the mean time if you are sure they exist I will keep looking.

Thanks

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
Hello,

Thanks Carl. It seems like I can remember that issue. You certainly have excellent recall. I might try the local library today for that issue.

I am going to stop at the Chev. dealer and scope their light truck info.. They usually have copies of older manuals to look at.

I will see if if there is any parts break down as well.


If Dave has seen 10 of them there has to be somebody with an actual transmission. Or at least info on it.


There is a place in Chicago that has a massive inventory of manual trans parts that I deal with from time to time, and they went through everything they could find with no luck. All they could find is the New Process unit.

Thanks for the help

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Hello,

Well its not looking good. I bugged a buddy at a GM dealer and we went through all the manuals we could find and no luck at all.

The parts dept was a typical what did fit deal, and I was unable to be very specific. But we tried 80s trucks/vans with no luck.

I called a guy in Texas that thought he had one but it turned out to be something other than a Saginaw. He thought it was a Saginaw until he actually compared it to Saginaw 4 speed out of a car he had.

So if anyone finds any info im still looking. If Dave's seen 10 I can can surely find 1.

I may try GMC specific vehicles, I know the pre 73 vehicles were sometimes different than the Chev equivalent, but I thought by the 80s they were pretty standard. Its worth a shot I guess.

I did find one of the old planetary 3 speeds I forgot I had.



Thanks
Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Hello.

Well I think I have exhausted all my sources, and myself for that matter. I still haven't located any info this. Lots on the planetary style conversion. Seems no one I can find has even heard of one except for the New Process's.

I found a pretty good parts manual for the Saganaws and they don't show and ratios above 1 to 1..

But Im still very interested if any info pops up. I think I will write it off for now.
The 10 Dave has been involved with may be the only 10 in existence. LOL

I have a friend who is quite good at "weird parts installations" hes checking commercial vehicles like taxis. I know they did some weird stuff. I remember having a 327 out of a Checker taxi that had a Ford C4 (I think- I know it was a ford) auto trans behind it, and I have seen TorqueFlites behind Chevys in US Mail vehicles.


But unfortunately all I can find is the New Process.

Thanks for the help

Jeff
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,151 Posts
Now that I have re-read this whole thread more carefully, I know the article I mentioned is now what you need. It's a conversion on a Saginaw 4 speed. It adapts the 3 speed planetary onto the 4 speed to give you overdrive on a 4 speed. From the outside, it would look just like the 3 speed ovedrive unit except for one more shift rod.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
Hello,

Thanks for all the effort guys.

What Im looking for is a non-planetary version of a Saginaw 4 speed. It would be all contained in the main case, achieved by varied cluster and (third) gear tooth counts.


Obviously I don't have a clue as to what Im looking for. Dave is the only one so far who has seen one (actually 10!). So hes my main hope.


Thanks again

Jeff
 
I

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
OK...well... only problem with installing a 3 SPEED cluster gear into a 4 SPEED trans is with a 4 SPEED inpyt/output shaft assembly, there isn't a gear on the cluster for a 4th GEAR.

Yes, Saginaw 3 speed case is same as a 4 speed case, and both 3 and 4 speed side covers bolt to either case, but if you only have 3 gears to work with on the cluster, then that is all you get, NOT 4.

Also, I have NEVER seen a "planetary" in a Saginaw manual transmission, only in automatics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
Hello,

What I was trying to convey Dave, is that the input would still be direct connection to the main shaft typically high gear in a stand 4 speed. where third gear is normally located would basically be the 4th "gear" but over driven instead of under driven. I guess the 3-4 shift lever on the side cover is reversed to give the same shifter pattern as a standard 4 speed?


As far as the planetary deal Im not sure but Im just refering to what ever system the old 3 speed ods used that were contained in the tail housing.

It dosent look like Im doing a very good job explaining myself. I wasnt trying to install a 3 speed cluster in a 4 speed.


I still havent found any info on these, but I havent given.


I found a guy who works at Delphi who can gewt pretty deep in GM design stuff, and hes looking into it. I told him you thoght 80s light trucks.


thanks

Jeff
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,562 Posts
Jeff,You are explaining yourself well.In the beginning I did not understand what you wanted.I thought you just wanted a Internal OD.Even though you said you knew of the Planetary in the Tailhousing type.I searched the web untill early in the morning and All the info I found was on the Planetary Type,1950's-1980's.They all had either a Electronic Solenoid or a plunger to activate the OD,Neither would look original for what you want.There is even a Old Link on Steves about this.I think you will find something eventually,but it will probally be in the form of a Custom Conversion.Good Luck with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Hello,

Thanks Joe.

I have a couple of good friend who have been obsessed with the old style od 3 speeds for years. They would grab every one a swap meet that was cheap. I even have one I forgot about.


I had never heard of the one I am looking for until IgnitionMan (Dave) mentioned it. So I still have no idea where to look, but Dave's been involved with 10 so there must be some out there.

I have yet to even find a trace, just the New Process versions that were available in the GM. No Saginaws, yet.

Dave, I checked a little deeper and several people refer to the 3 sp Saginaw OD as a planetary style, they may be error as well.
Was reverse on the side cover?

But Im still looking

Thanks again Dave

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
Hello,

Well Im just about to give up I went though a whole stack of Gm manuals with no luck today.

I did find several overdrive service manuals that described the Saginaw 3 speed OD as a "planetary" system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Hello,

I found some more info on the od trans, today but it doesnt look so good.


My friend found the Gm order and Im not to sure about any of this but its

81-86 light trucks with an RPO MY6

Its supposed to me 4 speed manual od but apparently they were New Process units to Gm specs

I guess nothing Saginaw about it. Im not sure about splines or any thing yet.


But Im still looking for the Saginaw version but its certainly looking bad. I cant even find a general parts diagram or reference for one.



If anybody stumbles across any parts info I would appreciate it.


Thanks

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Saginaw 4-spd with 3-spd OD added!

OK...well... only problem with installing a 3 SPEED cluster gear into a 4 SPEED trans is with a 4 SPEED input/output shaft assembly, there isn't a gear on the cluster for a 4th GEAR.

Yes, Saginaw 3 speed case is same as a 4 speed case, and both 3 and 4 speed side covers bolt to either case, but if you only have 3 gears to work with on the cluster, then that is all you get, NOT 4.

Also, I have NEVER seen a "planetary" in a Saginaw manual transmission, only in automatics.
Hello,

I found some more info on the od trans, today but it doesn't look so good.

My friend found the GM order and Im not to sure about any of this, but it's
81-86 light trucks with an RPO MY6. Its supposed to be 4 speed manual od but apparently they were New Process units to GM specs . . . I guess nothing Saginaw about it. I'm not sure about splines or any thing yet.

But Im still looking for the Saginaw version but it's certainly looking bad. I can't even find a general parts diagram or reference for one. If anybody stumbles across any parts info I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Jeff
Kind of hate to resurrect this old thread, but it's the one that led me to this site looking for help finding a good used Saginaw 4-spd to which to adapt my Saginaw 3-spd OD unit! It's based on that very 2-page, April 1975 Hot Rod article, referred to earlier in this thread and which I thankfully tore out and copied at the time! . . . been "Rodding" since the mid-'50s!

Let me start by first setting straight at least one misconception posted here . . . check any '60s-'80s Motor's Manual OD section and you'll clearly see that all 3-spd OD trannys, no matter the brand, used a planetary gear set for their OD function!

It's already been stated about the Saginaw's 3- and 4-speed case, side cover and tail housing similarities, identical actually, but no mention that the main shafts are also identical. It's these things that make it possible to adapt the 3-spd OD unit directly to the 4-spd, but only on the Saginaw . . . none of the other brands!

It's basically . . . remove the 3-spd OD adapter and tail assembly and both 3- and 4-spd main shafts, swap main shaft gear sets, drill one hole in the 4-spd main case for the OD "plunger" using 3-spd OD gasket as template, weld small vertical tab to reverse shifter arm to disengage the OD when in "Reverse" and then just reassemble the 4-spd, but with OD now . . . couldn't be much simpler!

The real beauty is that OD is available on all four forward gears . . . effectively an 8-speed! Here's proof . . .



 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
Excellent! I knew I had seen that before. I have all the old HotRods and now I know what issue to look. I think this may go in the Archive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Archives it is then!

Excellent! I knew I had seen that before. I have all the old HotRods and now I know what issue to look for. I think this may go in the Archive.
. . . well, I hope at least that I put to bed some misconceptions in the earlier posts here . . . that's what you get from an "old fart!" :rolleyes: Now that I think of it, when you locate that article in your Hot Rod archives, perhaps you could make a much clearer scan of the pages to clear up the illustrations and exploded views. Mine were copied off the original pages back in the late '70s and scanned off that old double-sided copy. Today's equipment is SO much higher resolution and, if scanned directly off the original, should produce much better copies!

If you or anyone else here should do that, let me suggest some settings in your scanner software to give you the optimum resolution. Set "Original" to "Printed Material - Art Magazine" (best resolution); set "Scan Type" to "Gray" (best image from B/W original); set "Purpose" (output) to "Laser Print - Fine" (highest resolution output); set "Scale Output" to "100%" and increase "Brightness", "Contrast" and "Sharpness" one step above "Zero/Normal" . . . this gives the best "Printed Page" images! . . . and let me know so I can get a better copy from you for my archives! :thumbsup: :pray:

Anyway, glad to help . . . anyone here have a decent Saginaw 4-spd and shifter they'd let go of so I can finish this mod? I have a really good digital camera to document the swap, if that helps convince y'all . . . :eek:

Oh, and Paul, just noticed and wanted to add . . . "Thank you for your service!" :salute: . . . "Nam Era" Navy vet myself . . .
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,405 Posts
I'm just a REMF working behind the T-walls.
The thanks go to you for solving an old thread. Now I just need to find an OD saginaw 3 speed.

Scanning my vast collection is on my "list of things to do when I get back".
I'll send a high res copy to you and Jeff (StockZ28) when I do.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,046 Posts
Hey Paul when are you due back home? I'm headed your way in a couple of months. Either Kuwait or Iraq for 6 months or in the way the USAF counts days closer to 220 days.
 
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
Top