[bleedchevyorange]

When replacing the pinion seal, should you replace the pinion nut?

 

[Paul Wright]

You'll more than likely need to replace the crush sleeve to maintain proper preload.

Once the crush sleeve begins to collapse, it's hard to get a second squeeze out of it. Sometimes you get lucky but it's not worth the risk for such a cheap item.
By the same token, replacing the nut also isn't a bad idea and I think may even come in some pinion/bearing seal "kits" along with the crush sleeve and cover gasket.
This is one I found for 8.5" 10 bolt. You can buy individual parts separately also.

Before you order parts, I'd inspect the axle shafts where the outer bearings ride. It's not uncommon to find them worn right through the surface hardness.

Be careful removing the cross pin retaining bolt. If the axle hasn't been apart recently it may be seized and they snap off easy. It's a real "bear trap on the nuts" situation if that happens.

 

[novaBRO]

don't forget to pack the lip of the seal with grease before finishing the install. I have reused crush sleaves before without a problem.

 

[Baddbob]

I've also reused crush sleeves before. I know of one guy that can get the seal changed and even do a yoke change without changing the bearing preload and crushsleeve- he explained his proceedure once to me but damn if I can remember it now!!!
I've reused crush sleeves in the past numerous times by straightening some of the crush so they lengthen slightly then crushing them again. An old timer taught me how to hammer some of the crush out using an old pinion shaft or similar as an anvil- comes in handy when the parts stores aren't open.

 

[The Big Al]

It takes 200lbs torque plus to crush a sleeve.

If all your doing is replacing the seal, use Loctite on the nut and re-torque to 100lbs and ride.
This has been done many times! And is a common repair done without issues.


No need to replace the crush sleeve.
Yes it is a cheep part, but it's not easy to get to it. It will require the removal of the differential. And then in most cases of installing the new sleeve with old bearing will put to much load on the bearings that have already developed a wear pattern.

Been down this road many times.

IMO

Al

 

[bleedchevyorange]

Thanks to all for the input. Much appreciated. I think i am going to just replace the pinion seal. If it causes issue then I will work on it over the winter! that is provided summer ever gets to Chicago!

 

[69AKDN]

Thanks to all for the input. Much appreciated. I think i am going to just replace the pinion seal. If it causes issue then I will work on it over the winter! that is provided summer ever gets to Chicago!

Tip..take a center punch, mark the end of the pinion and a corresponding mark on the nut for reference, you could also note the number of threads exposed but it will become quite obvious when you re-torque that nut. As mentioned use loctite, I also put a good silicone on the case ( outside ) of the seal and lubriplate on the seal surface prior to installation. Have a good look at the yoke and make sure the seal surface isn't grooved too badly.

 

[John65ss]

It takes 200lbs torque plus to crush a sleeve.

If all your doing is replacing the seal, use Loctite on the nut and re-torque to 100lbs and ride.
This has been done many times! And is a common repair done without issues.


No need to replace the crush sleeve.
Yes it is a cheep part, but it's not easy to get to it. It will require the removal of the differential. And then in most cases of installing the new sleeve with old bearing will put to much load on the bearings that have already developed a wear pattern.

Been down this road many times.

IMO

Al

I agree with Al, but I'd go to 150 ft-lbs on the nut. You still will not crush the sleeve at this level. I've done this several times without issue.

 

[62civa]

I asked this same question about 4 months ago on this site. Everyone, including Al and John gave me the same answers. I did the job as they advised...worked perfectly Tightened it to 150 Ft. Lbs. Used Locktite.

The real problem was breaking that pinion nut loose after 40 years.......man it was on there I made a tool to bolt to the pinion where the 4 u-joint strap bolts normally go. Then I welded a 4 foot long bar to this tool. It took lots of leverage to get the pinion nut off Then I cleaned up everything, install a new seal and a new 1350 Moser pinion. Thanks guys for all the helpfull info!
Ron

 

[Len66]

I recently did as Al said. Mark the nut, count the exposed threads, and use locktite on the nut. I have had no issues.

Len

 

[Paul Wright]

I did some more research on this subject.
From Randy's Ring and pinion site Faq's:

Can I re-use a crush sleeve?

No. Once the crush sleeve's tension between the bearings is released it cannot hold the proper tension again. This is also true if a crush sleeve is over-crushed during installation. It must be discarded and replaced with a new one.

While it may take 300 ft/lbs to initiate crush, once the collapsing occurs the metal bends with less force. Re-torquing the sleeve, even to a lighter 150 ft/lbs, will more than likely crush it too far and require replacement.

Here's what GM's factory manual says about replacing the pinion seal:

1.Mark the drive shaft and pinion flange so they can be reassembled in the same position.
2. Disconnect drive shaft.... <edited down>
3.Mark position of pinion flange pinion shaft and pinion nut so proper bearing pre-load can be maintained.
4.Remove pinion flange nut and washer.
5.Remove pinion flange.
6.Remove oil seal by driving it out of the carrier with a blunt chisel.
7. Examine seal surface of pinion flange for tool marks, nicks or damage, such as a groove worn by seal. If damaged replace...
8.Examine carrier bore and remove any burrs that might cause leaks around OD of seal.
9.Install new seal as shown.
10. Apply special seal Lubricant No. 1050169 or equivalent to the OD of the pinion flange and sealing lip of new seal.
11.Install pinion flange and tighten nut to the same position as marked in step 3. While holding the pinion flange as shown in Fig., tighten nut 1/16" beyond alignment marks.

Sleeves are cheap but in GM's case, paying warranty labor costs make this method cheaper for them.

I would say if you use this method, you can get a second life out of the sleeve but (IMO), not a third. Over collapsing the sleeve will run the risk of ruining the pinion bearing and more.
I would also measure bearing torque to turn before and after to see if you negatively impacted the torque to turn value. Use an inch/pound beam torque wrench on a socket and spin the pinion around while observing the torque to turn.

 

[6NOVA4]

It takes 200lbs torque plus to crush a sleeve.

If all your doing is replacing the seal, use Loctite on the nut and re-torque to 100lbs and ride.
This has been done many times! And is a common repair done without issues.


No need to replace the crush sleeve.
Yes it is a cheep part, but it's not easy to get to it. It will require the removal of the differential. And then in most cases of installing the new sleeve with old bearing will put to much load on the bearings that have already developed a wear pattern.

Been down this road many times.

IMO

Al

same here. Replaced tons of them at the dealership.