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1972 Nova
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, this might be a dumb one, but I've searched threads on many sites until my eyes were crossed. My starter/solenoid seem to be going out (draws a ton of power starting, doesn't seem to engage push the starter gear towards the flywheel every time), so I have been looking at the newer/smaller permanent magnet gear reduction starters. Most stock units I've been finding don't have the R terminal, and since I'm still running points I wanted that.

With that said, does it matter if the starter has 9 teeth or 11 teeth on the gear? It looks like I have the 153 tooth flywheel (hard to see the bolts through 50 years of oil/gunk buildup, but they looked straight across). I have a 350/TH350 combo (stock).

Would this starter work? The picture looks like an 11 tooth gear, but the description says both.
I know I would need new starter bolts to get standard thread.

Or do you have a suggestion on a different starter? I wanted a PMGR for the low power feed and smaller size (I have headers of an unknown model), and with that starter having the enclosed nose and the R terminal it looks almost too good to be true at that price.

Thanks!
 

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Well here's something else to help keep your eyes crossed is the R terminal on the original solenoid has full battery voltage coming out of it when the starter solenoid is activated and this goes into a wire to where the ignition coil gets full voltage to help fire the motor up. At the coil there is a second wire (resistance wire) that is connected to the ignition switch to where this wire from the switch has a lower voltage from passing through the resistance wire BUT should be showing reduced voltage when the key is in the run AND crank position.

This is on my 68 and the yellow wire goes to the R terminal on the starter and the other funky looking darker colored braided covered wire is the resistance wire.



SO, technically if you do not have the R terminal on the starter wired to the coil, the coil will still be getting voltage while cranking over the engine but at a reduced voltage which "may" be enough to start the engine.

If your system really needs a full battery voltage going to the coil only when cranking over a relay and diode could be wired up but I'm unfamiliar with the PM starters and I have heard if things are not wired right the starter can continue on for a bit even through the ignition key is taken away from the crank position. I'm old school and am just used to the old style starters BUT there should be a remedy if needed.

Jim
 

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Wire it like a regular starter.

Why does my starter seem to "run on" after the switch is released?

This is a common complaint on Ford permanent magnet starters, although it can occur on any permanent magnet starter in the right conditions. This situation develops when the ignition terminal on the starter is "jumpered" to the battery terminal on the starter and a remote solenoid is used. Permanent magnet starters can actually produce power if they are driven from an outside source (i.e. the starter will act like an alternator once the engine fires and starts spinning). The current produced in the starter for this second or so will flow from the starter's battery terminal to the starters ignition terminal and hold the solenoid in. This will cause the one to two second delay in the solenoid release and an irritating noise. The solution is to wire the starter per the instruction sheet, which will ensure that the ignition switch terminal goes dead the instance the key is released.

[TD][/TD]​
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yeah, I've read that's the reason for the R terminal (full 12v to the coil only when cranking to help the engine fire), and that was one reason I had wanted to keep it. When I replace my distributor and coil (not sure how old they were, but as I'm just trying to get it road worthy at the moment I'm using the motto of "if it works...") I can just cover or not use the R terminal if I go for something a little more modern.

In regards to the starter running on, that's is one reason I wanted to go with the starter with the R terminal. I would like it wired the right way. I don't mind the Ford solenoid setup with the stock starter, but I've seen some funky setups people have done to get around their starter not having the R terminal.

I'm not fully opposed to the stock/old style starters, but I have been reading that they are starting to have issues as well (especially as more and more are rebuilt). I like that they just plain work usually, but with my headers I would like something a little more protected. I also saw that somebody was playing with wires down there at some point (the car was last registered for road use in the mid-80's, and I've had it for 8 years, so I don't know much of it's history), so no matter the starter I go with I will be redoing some wires.
 

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Mike 'n Jim, this site is lucky to have you guys. I typically print your answers to these kind of questions and put them in a folder for future reference. TYVM for the ongoing "lessons".
Sudden, that said, I know a good builder that swears by those low cost starters.....uses 'em all the time.
 

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Around 15 yrs ago I was having run on problem with my starter. At the time I thought it was hanging up not running on. Come to find out it was the exact situation as described above. A gentleman on another forum figured it out for me and I am forever grateful.
 

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Mike 'n Jim, this site is lucky to have you guys. I typically print your answers to these kind of questions and put them in a folder for future reference. TYVM for the ongoing "lessons".
All I can say is thanks for listening to things I offer. I cannot say I will always be right but that's the way it is sometimes. I can say I will have an opinion a lot of times and you have to realize that there might be more than one way to do things and have both work just fine.

Hey just like tonight, this car I've been working on had the electrical system working like it should before a trip we are going to up in Byron Illinois. Not everything went smooth and I'm not 100% satisfied with things BUT it is what it is and it's safe. I got involved after some things were already done.



On this build I had to have my electrical cap on and off, my design hat on and off, my fabrication hat on and off, my thoughts thrown out on ways to do things, my research hat put on figuring out the right blower belt and so much more but when I do this the group I do hang out with is we do this to have fun.

Jim.
 
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