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Discussion Starter #1
they just hit the shelves this month....should be available where ever Valvoline is sold or if the are willing to order ya a case!:devil:.... I will be stoping at Orielly on lunch break to order my case........

I was never a synthetics guy, mainly because of low zinc.... but now.. thats not an issue

read about it in the last post of..........

ZDDP and Modern oils sticky...
 

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Discussion Starter #2
update...........................................................................




Orielly's dont have it yet. they have a PT# but no stock......
next I went to Autozone....

they have a PT# and even have an advertisement in their flier with a picture of the 10W30 VR1 synthetic, but no stock.. and .................................................................................................................................



Get this.... pictured along with the VR1 synthetic, is a bottle of 10W30 NSL for 3.99 with a dollar off! thats 3 bucks a quart for NSL.....

NOW I live in the 4th largest city in the USA.... you would think there would be a supply stock IF they were going to advertise it in the 4 largest city in the USA....

well guess what boys and girls... no stock....

I got the counter guy calling his gluteus maximus off looking for 2 cases of the VR1 10W30 Synthetic....

cause its a buck off too!:D


Good luck

veno
 

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Is there a benefit to thicker synthetic oil?

Synthetic oil protects as good if not better at a lighter viscosity.
Most people haven't adapted to this new paradigm and still associate "thin" oil equals less protection.

The man made molecules in synthetics are more consistent in size and quality . They flow through small openings more efficiently but this is what contributes to the lower "weight" classification since the viscosity bench mark is based on dinosaur oil.

SAE to Debate 94 year old J300 standard (2005)

Part of the SAE J300 viscosity standard is the Kinematic test. Oil flow is measured in mm^2/sec in a tester.

The oils are tested "hot" at 100C (212F) .
Synthetics flow more quickly through the tester than mineral oils so they may get a lower number with the kinematic test but this is not a measure of protection, simply the resistance to flow at a specific temperature.

Mobil Oil company said:
What role does viscosity play in a motor oil?
Engineers work to establish an optimal viscosity for an oil, based on load and speed conditions. They balance lighter – or low-viscosity – oil, which provides little resistance to motion thereby saving fuel and efficiently transferring horsepower, with a heavier – or high-viscosity – oil that resists being squeezed out of the contact area between metal surfaces.

The complicating factor is that the viscosity of an oil varies with changes in temperature – thinner when hot, thicker when cold. At low temperatures, we need the motor oil to flow readily (not thicken too much or gel). At high temperatures, we need the motor oil to keep from becoming too thin and allowing metal-to-metal contact. Therefore, engineers developed multigrade motor oils.

They have to add thickeners to synthetics to get the higher viscosity which actually decreases performance. It's reason new performance cars like the Z06 Corvette use 5w-30 Synthetic. I think the Honda Insight uses 0W-20 oil for the least amount of drag.

Ask Mobil said:
Question:
Explaining Viscosity Designations
What does 10W-40, 5W-30 etc., mean? I would really appreciate it if you could explain it in simple language so I can teach my students. There are so many different grades of oils. Which one is better to use in summer then winter (Chicago) and vise versa? Thanks a lot.
-- Vijay Patel, Lake Zurich, IL
Answer:
In simple language, the first part of the viscosity designation (W grade) is an indication of the product's ability to help an engine crank and start and for the engine to pump the lubricant. The lower the number (0W is the lowest), the lower the temperature the product can be used. So the W grade is related to the lowest temperature your engine sees when you start the engine on the coldest morning of the year. But also keep in mind that a lower W grade pumps and helps an engine to start better than a higher W grade. The second part the viscosity grade is related to the viscosity your engine sees at operating temperature. In this case, a higher number is a higher viscosity grade and provides more viscous oil at operating temperature than lower viscosity grade oil. It is not safe to assume that a higher viscosity oil is always better for your engine because other factors, such as engine design, fuel economy and power, are also related to operating viscosity. You should always consult your owner's manual for the right oil to use for your particular engine. For more information on the viscosity grade specifications, a quick search of the Internet will identify several Web sites where information about SAE J300 (Viscosity Properties Test) can be found.

IMO, oil systems give the greatest benefit when optimized to the peak of the performance bell curve. If variables are increased (or decreased) too far either way performance suffers. "More" is not always better.

An engine that requires "more" viscosity to prevent oil and pressure loss because it has "more" clearance, has "more" negative torque (friction). The end of "more" results in less bearing load capacity and less hp to the crankshaft.

Bottom line is 5W-30 synthetic is just fine if the engine is built to optimum standards.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Have to agree with ya paul.... as a matter of fact I have been saying for 20 years a 30Weight oil is all thats needed....in a well built engine.....

I am not a proponent of multi grade oils tho....as they start with a 0, 5 or 10 weight oil and add polymers to fortify it to the desired weight... In which are the weak link in oil break down... even tho new manufacturing has created a far superior polymer than just 10 years ago... its still the weak link...

But I will bite the proverbial bullet and do my first ilo change in a old hot rod with a synthetic oil.. with the VR1 10W30 Synthetic.... as the "OL" Nova has nothing but a straight diet of VR1 straight 30 weight...

One thing I will do.... is I am going to refrigerate a bottle of straight 30 VR1 and a bottle of the 10W30 VR1 synthetic....


then do a pour test.... @ 42 degrees(frig temp) to see which actually pours the easiest... the last time I did that was with the 20W50 VS the straight 30.... and the 30 was far more liquid or flowable @ 40 degrees than the 20W50....which goes against what we have been lead to believe...

EDIT,,, Paul....... what was the out come of that 2005 confrence?:D
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000458168.cfm?x=b5DNml3,b2Wdmnq1
Article date Wednesday, September 21, 2005.

Conference date...SAE's Open Forum on J300 will be held at the group's Powertrain and Fluid Systems Conference in San Antonio, from 9:45 a.m. to noon on Tuesday, Oct. 25.
 

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I know guys running 20wt oil at the strip. Low tension rings, light weight valvetrain and rotating assembly and light weight oil. They are gaining considerable power with this combo. One of them just set a new record with a 10.2X pass. They will likely tear him down to make sure he is not cheating if he backs it up at the next race. Wont be the first time they have torn him down.

Amsoil makes a 5W-20 racing oil


 

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Discussion Starter #9
(autozone)not yet... at least in the greater houston area... I had the counter guy check all the stores... in and around the greater houston area

When I called valvoline this morning, Valvoline said it was available @ pepboys, autozone, advance, oreilly's.....of the 4, the 2 I tried.. they have no stock but have a PT#....
 

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I run amsoil 0W30, ran amsoil after the warranty was up,no problems 1997 Pontiac Sunfire 2.2 135,000 miles bought it new:yes:
 

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Is there a benefit to thicker synthetic oil?

Synthetic oil protects as good if not better at a lighter viscosity.
Most people haven't adapted to this new paradigm and still associate "thin" oil equals less protection.

The man made molecules in synthetics are more consistent in size and quality . They flow through small openings more efficiently but this is what contributes to the lower "weight" classification since the viscosity bench mark is based on dinosaur oil.
My oil pressure is about 3-5 PSI higher with 5w30 synthetic than with 10w40 conventional. This is in a ZZ4 roller motor that is designed to run on synthetic.
 

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How soon can you run the synthetic oil after an engine build.?..I just broke my engine in last week.....How many miles ...Or can I use it in my first 500 mile oil change??.....
 

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then do a pour test.... @ 42 degrees(frig temp) to see which actually pours the easiest... the last time I did that was with the 20W50 VS the straight 30.... and the 30 was far more liquid or flowable @ 40 degrees than the 20W50....which goes against what we have been lead to believe...

QUOTE]

Veno, buy a cheap viscosity meter and you'll get a better test result. You can find them at automotive paint stores.
 

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Question, serious! Not a rebuttal at all.

OK, synthetic will protect a engine with a thinner oil than a mineral oil. I understand the very importance of wind-age and the hp needed to pump a heavy oil and the HP gains from the use of synthetic oils.

My question, we know oils from the oil viscosity system as we know it today. What a 50 wt or 30wt will protect.

And we use a comparable synthetic that will be lighter and thinner. And in a regular engine will get better performance and protection. I do this in my Marine applications and we have had increases in reduced lower unit drag and out-drive transmissions. we have done test and it's very true.

But in a RACE engine! Under NOS or as in a blower application , myself and others use a heavy weight oil not because of heat or thermal breakdown. The high cylinder pressures will knock the oil off the bearings, and a higher viscosity oil will prevent this.

With synthetic being a thinner oil, is the current weight conversion give the same protection?

Or is the temp we are testing at not comparable?
What if we tested all the oils at 180-200 degrees?
 

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I know of Comp Eliminator guys that use the 0 weight synthetics in 10,000 rpm small blocks. The only thing I'm aware of is the need to use bronze bushings in the lifter bores or risk having failures.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
you do under stand that 5w and 10w are winter denotations... that the viscosity change does not come into effect till a certain temperature drop is realized?... the oils will not be 5W till the temp drops below -20 degrees Fahrenheit. and the 10W will not see its viscosity till 0 degrees Fahrenheit...

20W @ 20 degrees Fahrenheit, and straight 30 weight is good from 30 degrees to 95 degrees......
 

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I know of Comp Eliminator guys that use the 0 weight synthetics in 10,000 rpm small blocks. The only thing I'm aware of is the need to use bronze bushings in the lifter bores or risk having failures.
I used 10w when I was class racing. But we are talking about engines that are torn down every 25-50 runs for inspection. Lot still use aluminum rods as I did and need to be replace every 50 runs min.
Still have a 1/2 case of the old Pennzoil! In the old paper can. Use it for power trim oil now.

Al

 

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they just hit the shelves this month....should be available where ever Valvoline is sold or if the are willing to order ya a case!:devil:.... I will be stoping at Orielly on lunch break to order my case........

I was never a synthetics guy, mainly because of low zinc.... but now.. thats not an issue

read about it in the last post of..........

ZDDP and Modern oils sticky...
whats the cost on this new oil per quart? thanks
 
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