[C.Smith]

Hey guys,

Help the clueless out over here. Posting a separate topic here other than my build thread '73 Nova Project
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...m/forums/showthread.php?t=431921&share_type=t to try and get some answers and figure out what I need to start buying and collecting!

Recently bought a pull out 350 from a friend, cheap. He bought a squarebody truck with this motor already in it, drove it a year then the LS bug bit him. I wanted an LS but decided to get this motor, get my car driving and save an LS for last so I could enjoy my car some.

My questions involve trying to figure out and start a parts list on things I need to buy to get this motor/trans in and my car moving! Car is a 73’ nova custom that came with a 350, dad sold the car running and I bought it back 15ish years like this...

Here’s the motor I bought and what the internet tells me it is after looking at block codes. Seems to be out of a 95-00 Vortec truck. Trans is a turbo 400, not sure where to look for numbers to verify. Trans also has a stall.

What else do I need guys? Motor mount kits, fuel pumps/regulators, etc? What about a new driveshaft or will the old fit? I’m assuming since my car didn’t come with the 400 I’ll need a new crossmember?

I’m willing to read links/other threads/not afraid to do some research but was having trouble finding info on mobile so thought I’d ask since that’s what forums are for! TIA y’all!



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[hrlyrdr]

Output shaft on 400 is larger that a 350 turbo. You may only need a 400 yoke. You will have to use an electric fuel pump. The old style motor mounts will bolt on to that block. Not sure if cross member is 400 specific but I don't think it is. Hope you get it sorted out.

 

[C.Smith]

Output shaft on 400 is larger that a 350 turbo. You may only need a 400 yoke. You will have to use an electric fuel pump. The old style motor mounts will bolt on to that block. Not sure if cross member is 400 specific but I don't think it is. Hope you get it sorted out.

Yeah, did some more reading/digging and came to the same conclusion on a few things. I def know I’ll need to 400 yoke, guy I bought my motor from might give me his, etc since he won’t be using it. From what I’m reading I think I’ll need the driveshaft shortened as well but trying to find someone with more info.

Not sure I have all of the motor mount pieces so they are on the order list.

Crossmember for 350 and 400’s are different, also different for a big block or small block so I’ll need to order me a crossmember specific for a small block and turbo 400.

Got several “homemade” crossmember in the trunk from previous owner. Lol.

Why an electric fuel pump?


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[C.Smith]

So digging around and making lists. So far I believe I’ll need..

•Starter
•Radiator
•Motor mounts
•Th400 crossmember
•Right size driveshaft and yoke
•Bellhousing cover
•Shift linkage
•Battery cables
•Battery
•Battery box
•Brake vacuum lines


Possible things:
•New fuel lines
•Maybe new gas tank
•Fuel pump

Previous owner took it from column shift to a floor shift, guessing that’ll affect how hooking this thing up goes?

Anybody want to add to this list/give parts suggestions to buy?

Pic just because...

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[stinger670]

If your replacing the tank, fuel pump and lines and you want to go LS in the future, you might want to consider fuel pump in the tank with new fuel lines..it will save you hassles in the future...enjoy!

 

[hrlyrdr]

"Why electric fuel pump?" Look at the block where a fuel pump would normally go. The casting is there but no hole through to the cam. The vortec engine was a throttle body with electric pump.

 

[C.Smith]

If your replacing the tank, fuel pump and lines and you want to go LS in the future, you might want to consider fuel pump in the tank with new fuel lines..it will save you hassles in the future...enjoy!

LS in the future (maybe not so near but definitely one day) is definitely the plan. Thanks for the suggestion. A friend mentioned I should look into that as well as to buy once instead of buying something now then something else later! I believe my tank is okay but also not positive since it’s sat a good while and is original. I’ll have to dig and see what people recommend and costs, etc. I know I for sure need the pump and lines though regardless!

"Why electric fuel pump?" Look at the block where a fuel pump would normally go. The casting is there but no hole through to the cam. The vortec engine was a throttle body with electric pump.

10/4....appreciate that. Have never attempted any of this before other than small help with friends, etc so just asking any questions to educate myself as well as doing any reading anyone points me to.




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[Squigie]

Make sure the cross member that you pick up is the TH400/small block version. The big block cross members offset the transmission to the right side, to match the engine mounts; but small blocks mount in the center. (A mismatch of engine mounts and trans cross member will have the engine and transmission cockeyed longitudinally.)


You'll likely have distributor clearance issues with the firewall, unless you run a small cap HEI (or it has already been 'massaged' for clearance). Some people use shims between the cross member and TH350s to tilt the engine and get just a hair more clearance. That doesn't really work with TH400s/3L80s. The transmission is too fat to allow much change without hitting the floor (and the 1350 yoke size doesn't help, either).


You already have a TH400/3L80 yoke. It's bolted to the output shaft.
You also have what appears to be the 'C' length (4") tail extension housing. That means there isn't much spline to work with, if you want to convert to a slip-yoke (or "car") style output. But the 'C' extension is good, as it provides the most clearance and keeps the floor and transmission (the yoke in particular) from getting to know each other.
Since you already need to have a driveshaft made, or the original modified, I believe the better option is to go with a slip-joint (or "truck") style driveshaft. Retrofit type slip yokes don't allow for much engagement or travel; but you can retain full engagement of the yoke, as well as full travel, with a slip-joint. Multiple speed bumps can be addressed with one check.


The TH400 only needs a vacuum source to operate, and one switched +12V wire to kick down (and making sure the case has a good ground isn't a bad idea). Figure out where you're going to put that switch (micro switch on throttle linkage, momentary switch on dash, adapted slide switch on pedal, etc.), and how you're going to get fused power to it as soon as reasonably possible. If you don't take care of it early, it'll never get done. I also recommend routing the wire to the transmission before or during the transmission install, to save yourself an extra trip under the car.


Linkage... Wish I could offer some advice. But I have very little experience with floor shifters.
If the car was set up for a TH350 with that floor shifter, it should probably work with the TH400, too.
More than likely, you'll find that it only needs minor adjustment. OR, the entire thing needs to be moved, reconfigured, and fiddled with.

 

[acd65post]

That is a nice project.

Is the floor shifter still in the car? If so is the cable and bracket still there? depending on what the shifter is you may need another cable and or mounting bracket. My Quick Silver shifter came with two or three different brackets to mount to various transmissions to give the correct geometry.

 

[C.Smith]

Make sure the cross member that you pick up is the TH400/small block version. The big block cross members offset the transmission to the right side, to match the engine mounts; but small blocks mount in the center. (A mismatch of engine mounts and trans cross member will have the engine and transmission cockeyed longitudinally.)

I read that yesterday after some digging. Seemed to be an argument over it by some but that it did infact offset things by like an inch if you didn’t make sure you had to one for a SBC. Saw where some were getting it off eBay and other sites but if in doubt to specifically ask to make sure you get the right one.

You'll likely have distributor clearance issues with the firewall, unless you run a small cap HEI (or it has already been 'massaged' for clearance). Some people use shims between the cross member and TH350s to tilt the engine and get just a hair more clearance. That doesn't really work with TH400s/3L80s. The transmission is too fat to allow much change without hitting the floor (and the 1350 yoke size doesn't help, either).

Don’t think it’s been massaged. I’ll put a small cap HEI on my list. Rather know what’ll work then get it in there and still need it. Seems solid after reading and a lot use it.

You already have a TH400/3L80 yoke. It's bolted to the output shaft.
You also have what appears to be the 'C' length (4") tail extension housing. That means there isn't much spline to work with, if you want to convert to a slip-yoke (or "car") style output. But the 'C' extension is good, as it provides the most clearance and keeps the floor and transmission (the yoke in particular) from getting to know each other.
Since you already need to have a driveshaft made, or the original modified, I believe the better option is to go with a slip-joint (or "truck") style driveshaft. Retrofit type slip yokes don't allow for much engagement or travel; but you can retain full engagement of the yoke, as well as full travel, with a slip-joint. Multiple speed bumps can be addressed with one check.

I realize that now :facepalm:....It’s definitely the 4” as I measured after reading on different sizes, etc. So in this situation you would go with a slip joint style driveshaft? Not a slip yoke? I follow mostly what you’re saying but I’ll have to dig around on the World Wide Web and read a little more. Any links on what parts you would go with?

The TH400 only needs a vacuum source to operate, and one switched +12V wire to kick down (and making sure the case has a good ground isn't a bad idea). Figure out where you're going to put that switch (micro switch on throttle linkage, momentary switch on dash, adapted slide switch on pedal, etc.), and how you're going to get fused power to it as soon as reasonably possible. If you don't take care of it early, it'll never get done. I also recommend routing the wire to the transmission before or during the transmission install, to save yourself an extra trip under the car.

I’ll do more digging on this as well, I saw where some had a push button near the shifter and some other ideas. I’ve never seen anyone with a button so I assume they’ve had one of the other ideas you mentioned. I’ll see what people think is best and do what I can to make it like that and have it ready and ran when we go to put everything in.

Linkage... Wish I could offer some advice. But I have very little experience with floor shifters.
If the car was set up for a TH350 with that floor shifter, it should probably work with the TH400, too.
More than likely, you'll find that it only needs minor adjustment. OR, the entire thing needs to be moved, reconfigured, and fiddled with.

I honestly couldn’t tell you what it’s setup for. Dad sold the car with the original 350/350 setup and everything to build both of them up pretty stout. Guy he sold it to though decided to make it a floor shift car then there is no telling what the people after him did before it finally made its rounds back into my hands.

That is a nice project.



Is the floor shifter still in the car? If so is the cable and bracket still there? depending on what the shifter is you may need another cable and or mounting bracket. My Quick Silver shifter came with two or three different brackets to mount to various transmissions to give the correct geometry.

Shifter is in fact still there, as well as everything that goes with it, I believe. Only pictures I can find of the actual shifter (they aren’t the best)....

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[Squigie]

One thing I just remembered...
It won't affect installation, but once that TH400/3L80 is in there, the transmission pan will be the lowest thing on the underside of the car. ...Just something to be mindful of once it's back on the road.

I read that yesterday after some digging. Seemed to be an argument over it by some but that it did infact offset things by like an inch if you didn’t make sure you had to one for a SBC. Saw where some were getting it off eBay and other sites but if in doubt to specifically ask to make sure you get the right one.

I know that Tamraz's SBC/TH400 cross member is correct. Many members here have used it. That's also what's in my '70 4-door.

I realize that now :facepalm:....It’s definitely the 4” as I measured after reading on different sizes, etc. So in this situation you would go with a slip joint style driveshaft? Not a slip yoke? I follow mostly what you’re saying but I’ll have to dig around on the World Wide Web and read a little more. Any links on what parts you would go with?

Unless you want to change the transmission tail housing and output shaft to the car style, in order to use the slip yoke, that is what I would do.

...And what I did.
I had a rebuilt 350 with just 700 miles on it, paired with a 3L80HD (both out of my deceased motorhome), and wanted a project to put it in. My neighbor had a 4-door Nova for sale with no engine and a worn out TH350. Easy call.

I did a lot of research into the retrofit slip yokes, and there just isn't enough engagement for me to be comfortable. I also didn't feel like tearing the transmission apart to change tail housings and output shafts (if I could even find a donor transmission - full size GM cars that originally came with TH400s are very scarce around here).

I have no real recommendations for parts. I had my driveshaft modified locally, and the guy used Spicer parts (which I have no problem with).
I did go with an extra-long slip joint in my driveshaft for unrelated reasons. If you're interested in reading why, there are measurements and some more information here: Driveshaft...
(Not mentioned there, I don't think, is that the rear end is an 8.2" 10-bolt.)


My 350/3L80HD, also with a 'C' extension:

 

[C.Smith]

One thing I just remembered...
It won't affect installation, but once that TH400/3L80 is in there, the transmission pan will be the lowest thing on the underside of the car. ...Just something to be mindful of once it's back on the road.

Noted. I figured it would hang lower on a car for sure. I saw in your thread where you considered making something to protect it, ever get around to it? I'll just be mindful when Im driving, my daily is a lowered truck so Im already very attentive of where I'm driving/whats in the road, etc.

I know that Tamraz's SBC/TH400 cross member is correct. Many members here have used it. That's also what's in my '70 4-door.

Just did a search and it seems thats what most people use/seems to work. Good to hear first hand from yourself it's a winner. Making a spreadsheet/note and putting it on there for a crossmember to buy.

Unless you want to change the transmission tail housing and output shaft to the car style, in order to use the slip yoke, that is what I would do.

...And what I did.
I had a rebuilt 350 with just 700 miles on it, paired with a 3L80HD (both out of my deceased motorhome), and wanted a project to put it in. My neighbor had a 4-door Nova for sale with no engine and a worn out TH350. Easy call.

I did a lot of research into the retrofit slip yokes, and there just isn't enough engagement for me to be comfortable. I also didn't feel like tearing the transmission apart to change tail housings and output shafts (if I could even find a donor transmission - full size GM cars that originally came with TH400s are very scarce around here).

I have no real recommendations for parts. I had my driveshaft modified locally, and the guy used Spicer parts (which I have no problem with).
I did go with an extra-long slip joint in my driveshaft for unrelated reasons. If you're interested in reading why, there are measurements and some more information here: Driveshaft...
(Not mentioned there, I don't think, is that the rear end is an 8.2" 10-bolt.)


My 350/3L80HD, also with a 'C' extension:

Read some of your thread, will definitely read more of it when time permits. Love it all came out of your motorhome and your neighbor justttt so happened to have that nova. LOL. Thanks for the link! I'm for sure not trying to tear into this transmission for any reason I don't "have" to so will 100% just use the slip joint as you did and will look for someone local to do some driveshaft modifications for me. I do like the reasoning of why you went with the extra-long slip joint, etc. was worth the read! Mind me asking around what the driveshaft rebuild/parts/modification cost you to have done?

 

[Squigie]

Mind me asking around what the driveshaft rebuild/parts/modification cost you to have done?

I ended up having to write a check for about $280, if I remember correctly. But the majority of that was for the stub and yoke to make the unusually long slip joint. It would have been cheaper if I had only wanted to meet the requirements at the time.
Basically, I paid an extra $100 (or more) in order to make life easier if I ended up going with a Ford 8.8" rear end later on.

 

[C.Smith]

I ended up having to write a check for about $280, if I remember correctly. But the majority of that was for the stub and yoke to make the unusually long slip joint. It would have been cheaper if I had only wanted to meet the requirements at the time.
Basically, I paid an extra $100 (or more) in order to make life easier if I ended up going with a Ford 8.8" rear end later on.

I was figuring at least $200 so sounds about right, was just curious. Can’t blame you though if you’re thinking of tossing that rear end in possibly one day. I’m on a localish FB car page and will have to find some driveshaft shop recommendations and make a few calls.



Good news, talked to my friend I got the motor from and he has the starter to give me as well as a Holley Red electric fuel pump and another back up pump he bought when he thought the red was out but turned out to be a loose wire. Owe him a beer as it saves me a few more bucks for sure!


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[C.Smith]

So I need to get this motor up off these tires and moved around the shop. Was going to order this

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BPUU1...colid=UH8VCTJC3Q7I&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

And this….

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077ZWHNV...colid=UH8VCTJC3Q7I&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

To both get it up off the ground and for when I got to put it in the car. Anyone have a preference with anything else?

Also picked me up another Haynes manual to browse over/have on hand!


Also, with Black Friday coming up Ive set aside some money to go ahead and buy a few things to get this motor in the car (hopefully some places will have decent percent off sales). Figured car stuff was more productive than what most people would be out looking for. Lol.

Have a few questions in regards to those items.

1.) Going to try and get the TH 400 crossmember from tamrazs (as recommended) since I need one with mount in the middle for a SBC not to one side for BBC https://www.tamrazsparts.com/68-72-nova-67-69-camaro-firebird-th-400-crossmember-small-block-sb-chq/ $145

2.) I need a transmission mount. Will just any turbo 400 mount work? Saw these on several sites, figured I could just snag some of them? https://www.jegs.com/i/Prothane/311...MIwcHTmcrX3gIVjjZpCh0TywsgEAQYBSABEgItgvD_BwE $31

3.) Motor mounts! I know you have short and tall/clamshell, etc etc. Read several threads where I believe Firebird69racer went into detail on when they changed and part numbers, etc. but I’m still a little behind the times. Get OEM or poly? Or? Looking back at my pictures I believe I still have the motor side of the mounts but how do I figure out what I need to order?

4.) This electric kickdown jazz, people argue back and forth about hooking it up but Ive decided its there for a reason and needs to be hooked up. However, how is another story. I’ve read on both this

B&M https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MI2cGW887X3gIVCqdpCh2D1w6REAQYBCABEgLpwfD_BwE

and this Lokar https://www.jegs.com/i/Lokar/625/KD...MI2cGW887X3gIVCqdpCh2D1w6REAQYASABEgLSqfD_BwE

Anyone have experience with either? Care to comment?


5.) Feel free to link any other links to some recommended items. Going to have to snag more hoses, gaskets, fuel lines and all that jazz but mainly wanted the stuff to pick this motor up and stab it in to get to doing the other stuff.

 

[65novaken]

that b&m shifter you have is a good shifter .ive used it for years no issues

 

[C.Smith]

that b&m shifter you have is a good shifter .ive used it for years no issues

Good to know. I need to make sure it’s all there and see what it needs to be hooked up to this Turbo 400.


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[C.Smith]

So ordered these to start the process of installing this motor (Trans crossmember, trans mount, motor mount bolts)

Have both of these sitting in a cart to be ordered to just make sure I have the right mounts instead of guessing if what’s on the motor works. Just waiting on a little larger order.

Now to figure out the other parts. Specifically the radiator and electric fuel pump.

For those of you with a 350 and in a 3rd gen? More specifically a 73’ custom. Is there a size you recommend? I’ve seen chatter about champion as well as some of the universal summit ones? Plan is to take off my current fan blade and buy a Taurus fan, trying to track down a Volvo relay and all but those aren’t common in my area so might have to find someone online selling them.


Next up is electronic fuel pump and wiring it up/where to mount/bracket, etc? Currently have a Holley red that was given with the motor. After reading I know I need to try to get it below the bottom of the tank, I know I need at least an 85 micron before pump and a 10 after (any affordable recommendations?) My problem comes in to mounting and wiring, I’ve looked at online diagrams but does anyone offer a wiring kit? A bracket? Definitely want to be on the safer side and wire with some type of relay and not just to a hot ignition wire, etc.

Searching on here but seeing lots of in truck fuel cell types and not much stock tank stuff. Thanks in advance. Posted in my build thread as well.

 

[wht73]

Those are the correct mounts. They were stock for the 307 and used them for the 406 and the new 441TT that's being built.:yes:

 

[C.Smith]

Those are the correct mounts. They were stock for the 307 and used them for the 406 and the new 441TT that's being built.:yes:

Nice! I’m sure that’ll be fun once it’s built!!

I have mounts that were on the block already on from the person who ran it in an 80’s model Chevy and they measured ~4” wide so I just decided to ordered new block side and frame side mounts after searching around on here.

Just gathering info/trying to figure out that other stuff now. First real “project” so for sure learning a lotttt by reading. Lol.


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