[Denis the Menace]

How much front end trsvel should one have on a 3rd gen? And what is the best way to measure it?

I just measured from the ground to my fender lip center axle. It was 25-1/4" at rest, then I jacked up the front end until the suspension stopped opening, and it was at 31" that was 5-3/4". I am not sure if that is the correct way to calculate it but that is what I did.

And what about the bump stops? I was told by some to cut them down to allow for more travel.

I have Moroso Trick Springs and Summit cheapo 3 position adjustables up front set at 90/10 and multi leafs w/Summit Cheapo 3 way adjustables in the rear set to 50/50 ( these things are a pain in the butt to adjust).

No one could tell me what springs they were using so I was researching the springs before the car was a runner to get it weighed.

And I found several old threads from years ago on some other sites and most of the guys that were testing and posting their results (BBC, SBC, Ford Mopar or whatever) concludes that the car always worked better with the next lighter spring than was was recommended by Moroso and/or their documentation (and the tech support guys were useless).

What can you all add to this?

Denis

 

[aron69nova]

that amount of front end travel is about what i've got. spring rate and just how quick the front end comes up is great to know. sounds like your shocks should work pretty well too. best thing is to go out and test it on the track...

 

[NOVACA1N]

Wrong way to measure...Fender lip to spindle or wheel center cap..Ground is no good.

 

[Denis the Menace]

I was waiting for you to chime in.:yes:

What other information can you supply in the way of what can be done to optumize the front end charictaristics?

How much travel does your car have and what components do you have?

What about the rubber bump stops?

 

[Sooner1]

Im not sure what all youre asking.
would you like to increase front end travel?
if so, you could get tubular a arms and or low friction bushings (del a lum from global west). disconnect your sway bar.

do you have a sbc or bbc?
i have the moroso trick springs- and it has been guesswork trying to achieve desired ride height as far as trimming springs goes.

as far as shocks- what about these?

http://calvertracing.com/frontshocks.php

 

[Denis the Menace]

I have no sway bar and it's a big block. I am not necessarily trying to increase travel but trying to figure out where in the ball park I should be.

As far as Calvert he is not far from me, and I have a laundry list of things I want from him.:yes: I just need a little more side work.:devil:

 

[johnh]

Denny. when I ordered all my parts from Calvert, John spoke with me for a while regarding front end travel. He told me for his products 5 inches of travel was the desired minimum amount for his products to work effectifly. he said every Drag car should have a min. of 5 inches.

I acheived his advise of 5 inches with the following,
low friction upper and lower ball joints, I used Affco
http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_Dynate...e=A&Category_Code=dr_low-friction-ball-joints

Moroso trick springs, you helped me with those.. thanks :yes:
Calverts 90/10 front shocks.... I really like those, over the Lakewood i was using.
Removed the upper CA bump stops. the lower ones were replaced with new ones. NOT TRIMMED
And the control arm bushings were/pressed and installed by the local speed shop and they did the standard's to help free them up. Took the knurls off of them.

John Calvert had me measure my travel before and after this way while he was on the phone....

Car on ground... Bottom of rim lip to fender lip.=?
Car off ground.... same as above... subtract the two and that is the travel.....

Once i did all of the above, I originally was using Lakewood 90/10 front shocks and only got 4.5 inches of travel. I switched to Calvert 90/10's and got 5.25 inches....
Every thing is broken in and loose now.


Just my 2 cents worth......:turn:

 

[Denis the Menace]

Great thanks for the info!

 

[NOVACA1N]

I was waiting for you to chime in.:yes:

What other information can you supply in the way of what can be done to optumize the front end charictaristics?

How much travel does your car have and what components do you have?

What about the rubber bump stops?

How much travel do I have? ..A lot. Never measured it with the new combo, last setup had exactly 5". I imagine I have more now, my car sits low...Probably slightly too low, but it looks killer I'm in the process of REMOVING front end travel however, in attempt to calm the wheelstands only slightly:devil:

Upper control arm bump stops should be completely removed, same goes for the sway bar. Bushings are crucial, poly is junk, stock isn't much better. I have AFCO low friction bushings packed with synthetic grease..Global West Del-Alum's are the best as far as bushings, but I simply couldn't afford them...The AFCO steel bushings are a cheap alternative. When my car is at rest, I can grab the front bumper, pull on it, and effortlessly max out the suspension. If I really yank on it, it just skips the wheel off the ground.

Now for the misinformation in the thread...

Shocks...Assuming you have the correct application shocks, they have nothing to do with upward travel. If you changed shocks and gained upward travel, that means that they were topping out before the upper control arm contacted the frame. If that is the case, the shocks are too short, indicating that they were not the correct shocks for the car. With that said, the shocks recommended are an excellent shock and I have them in my car. You may have to open up the hole in your lower control arm slightly to get the shock to fit (twin tube design = wide), but other than that there's no issue.

Bump stops...Can be cut down to accommodate a lower ride height. Low ride height in the front is good...The lower it is, the more upward travel you have. I always say "make it as low as you can live with", but of course too low is not a good thing either. The idea is you want between 3/4" and 1-1/4" between your lower control arm bump stop and the frame, assuming that the suspension/car is relaxed with driver weight in the car. Some bump stops are different; some taller than others. If you need to trim them to get the car lower, that is not an issue by any means, in fact it's quite common. Just make sure you have the desired distance after cutting them.

Ball joints...Do not gain any travel if they are stock dimensions. The only ball joints that will increase upward travel are those with extended studs, but that's a whole other discussion that I'm not getting into right now. "Low friction" ball joint are a waste of money for the street or race car. I have NAPA replacements and they work fine for me.

Hope this helps..

 

[Denis the Menace]

Thanks for the info.

The I am aware that the shocks would not increase the upward travel as you mentioned unless they were not correct for the application.

I did gain travel with the Trick Springs.

When it's back together I will remove the stops on the upper control arms. I have not cut the springs as they did settle alot. I didn't want to cut them and have them settle more.

As for the control arm bushings I bought several years ago before I knew better. I got the urithaine Extreme suspension bushings.

I'll just keep saving and after it's running again I do some more work to the front with what I have until I can get the good stuff.

 

[tbills66]

As far as the shocks go, alot of guys run shocks a longer than stock and use spacers to lower them down so they don't bottom out. That is when the suspension travel is more than intended. Bump stops are gone. Limiters are used for suspension travel. An old trick to the bushings is to grind off the knurls to allow for free travel. The bolts on our old super stocker were double nutted locknuts so you didn't have to tighten the bolts till they bound up the a-arms, but tight enough for no slop. I too could pull the front end up with little effort as novacain said he could do with his. If you can't do that you have got problems and need to get them fixed before running.

 

[Denis the Menace]

Excellent!

That is what I will work on when the engine and trans go back in. Funds are tight and believe it or not I thought about doing that.

Thanks

 

[Sooner1]

Now for the misinformation in the thread...

Shocks...Assuming you have the correct application shocks, they have nothing to do with upward travel. If you changed shocks and gained upward travel, that means that they were topping out before the upper control arm contacted the frame. If that is the case, the shocks are too short, indicating that they were not the correct shocks for the car. With that said, the shocks recommended are an excellent shock and I have them in my car. You may have to open up the hole in your lower control arm slightly to get the shock to fit (twin tube design = wide), but other than that there's no issue.

Bump stops...Can be cut down to accommodate a lower ride height. Low ride height in the front is good...The lower it is, the more upward travel you have. I always say "make it as low as you can live with", but of course too low is not a good thing either. The idea is you want between 3/4" and 1-1/4" between your lower control arm bump stop and the frame, assuming that the suspension/car is relaxed with driver weight in the car. Some bump stops are different; some taller than others. If you need to trim them to get the car lower, that is not an issue by any means, in fact it's quite common. Just make sure you have the desired distance after cutting them.

Ball joints...Do not gain any travel if they are stock dimensions. The only ball joints that will increase upward travel are those with extended studs, but that's a whole other discussion that I'm not getting into right now. "Low friction" ball joint are a waste of money for the street or race car. I have NAPA replacements and they work fine for me.

Hope this helps..[/QUOTE]

sorry...
i was referring to weight transfer and putting the nose in the air.
i dont pretend to know as much as you do at this point about launching the car. i do realize that shocks or low friction bushings wont increase front end travel but im willing to bet will help me with weight transfer.
i love how easily my front end comes up with these "low friction" bushings.
to each as own i guess.
if my current set up wont pull the left front tire this summer...
my next one will! :yes:

 

[ERV JR]

Did you use a small a/n washer to shim the bushing after removing the knurls ? If not you really arent helping yourself, but removing them and not shimiming them back to the lenght then you are smashing the rubber before the washer ever touches the inner shaft. tight rubber/bushing will slow travel

Denny. when I ordered all my parts from Calvert, John spoke with me for a while regarding front end travel. He told me for his products 5 inches of travel was the desired minimum amount for his products to work effectifly. he said every Drag car should have a min. of 5 inches.

I acheived his advise of 5 inches with the following,
low friction upper and lower ball joints, I used Affco
http://www.afabcorp.com/AFCO_Dynate...e=A&Category_Code=dr_low-friction-ball-joints

Moroso trick springs, you helped me with those.. thanks :yes:
Calverts 90/10 front shocks.... I really like those, over the Lakewood i was using.
Removed the upper CA bump stops. the lower ones were replaced with new ones. NOT TRIMMED
And the control arm bushings were/pressed and installed by the local speed shop and they did the standard's to help free them up. Took the knurls off of them.

John Calvert had me measure my travel before and after this way while he was on the phone....

Car on ground... Bottom of rim lip to fender lip.=?
Car off ground.... same as above... subtract the two and that is the travel.....

Once i did all of the above, I originally was using Lakewood 90/10 front shocks and only got 4.5 inches of travel. I switched to Calvert 90/10's and got 5.25 inches....
Every thing is broken in and loose now.


Just my 2 cents worth......:turn:

 

[bowtie0069]

ERV, where you been? Any progress on the car?