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Discussion Starter #1
If you have a numbers matching car that is restored with Reproduction parts, is it still considered "original" or "numbers matching"? This may be an old debate, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

I would argue that it is still legitimately original as long as you don't stray from what was originally on the car. In my opinion, if you put NOS '67 parts on a '66, even though they are mostly the same, it would not be original anymore. But if you put a Repro '66 part on a '66, it still retains the "original" designation.

Not everybody can afford the $$$$ NOS stuff....
 

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It's only original once. After that it's restored. That's my opinion, it's free and worth it.

Don
 

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As stated above it's only original once, but it can remain #'s matching. The values will differ.

1 all Original
2 #'s match, but restored with NOS parts
3 #'s match restored
4 NOM restored date correct
5 restored

There's my opinion!:yes:
 

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An 'original' car would be one that has been absolutely untouched and everything about it is unchanged from the day it was built. Not too many of those around:).

In it's simplest form, numbers matching means a car that has it's 'born with' drivetrain (engine, transmission and rearend) as proven by build or broadcast sheets, POP's, VIN stampings, etc. The components could be restored, but they must have been in the car when it was new. Some folks even extend this to mean correct paint and upholstery codes, too. In other words, they would consider a car with it's paint or trim color changed as not numbers matching even if it had it's 'born with' drivetrain.

As already stated, a car is only original once, so there is no such thing as a restored original, but you can restore a car 'as original.' This could be a restored numbers matching car, or a car restored using correct reproduction parts or parts from another car of the same model and year. My L79 Nova would be a good example of this. It was restored with it's original drivetrain, new correct paint and upholstery and numerous correct reproduction trim items. It existed just as it did when new in 1966. It was numbers matching and restored 'as original.'

All of this stuff means different things to different people, so you'll probably find some dissenting opinions.

Bob
 

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original = completely new and not copied or derived from something else


only original once and never thereafter.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for all of the input. I've stuggled with keeping my '66 "original" but it seems it has been somewhat in vain. It currently has it's untouched rearend, powerglide transmission, 283 c.i.d., power steering and brakes. But this winter I'll be pulling the engine and refreshing it with a new cam and an overhaul. It had been bugging me a little.

Now stepping back and taking a look at everything, it's not really that close to original. I did have it painted with the correct Ermine White paint, and the interior is still red, but then things start to blur... I've got a bench seat out of a '67, the seats have been re-upholstered with a red from a '68 olds, I've bought repopped bumper guards, front bumper, and a few other chrome pieces around the car. I've also got an intake and 4 bbl Quadrajet from someone else's '66 nova that I'm going to change out from my 2 bbl setup. I've also got a clock from a '66, but mine didn't come with one from the factory. So I definitely don't fall into an "original" car owner, just an owner that likes everything from the era.
 

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What It sounds like to me is that you're doing an original style resto. And I don't feel any repro items on the car will hurt it's overall value. Do what works for you.
 

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"Restored factory stock" is a term that's often used for your situation.

Dave Keillor
 

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What you're doing is the best thing you can do to keep it as close to OE as possible, they all need repairs and maintenance every now and then.
 

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I get sooooooo confused when people say numbers matching and not the "Born With Drivetrain". Numbers matching does not mean all the time it is the Original Born With Drivetrain.Numbers matching could mean correct part numbers,correct date coded components.
 

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Numbers matching does not mean all the time it is the Original Born With Drivetrain.Numbers matching could mean correct part numbers,correct date coded components.
A car without it's original drivetrain, but with correct part numbers and date coded components is generally referred to as 'numbers correct' not 'numbers matching.' Numbers matching means 'born with' drivetrain with numbers, VIN stampings, date codes that match the car's original build/broadcast sheets, POP or other documentation from the day the vehicle was new.

Bob
 

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If I may, I sort agree with Dan. It's gotten to the point that "numbers matching" means nothing to me anymore. With all of the "restamps" out there, there are more "numbers matching" '67 427 corvettes than were ever produced. We all know this happens with the big block Novas as well. I have come to only accept the term "born with" (and you better have a bunch of documentation). Also, if it's been restored, and you're claiming "born with" drivetrain, you better have pictures of the car the way you found it, in as found condition, including pics of the numbers before you began the restoration.

This is only my opinion, I am no expert, yet folks keep coming up with numbers matching this and that but they can't produce pics of when they found the car.

ND
 

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A car without it's original drivetrain, but with correct part numbers and date coded components is generally referred to as 'numbers correct' not 'numbers matching.' Numbers matching means 'born with' drivetrain with numbers, VIN stampings, date codes that match the car's original build/broadcast sheets, POP or other documentation from the day the vehicle was new.

Bob
That's the way I see it. Just like that fake L-79 on eBay where the seller claims in the ad that the car has "numbers matching engine, trans, and rear". It's a restored Nova SS with a NOM.
 

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I get sooooooo confused when people say numbers matching and not the "Born With Drivetrain". Numbers matching does not mean all the time it is the Original Born With Drivetrain.Numbers matching could mean correct part numbers,correct date coded components.
I expect these cars to be referred to as date coded correct , not #'s matching. I have a CE replacement engine for my L78 car and I would refer to it as date code correct not #'s match. This term has really been abused, unfortunately!:(
 
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