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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Anyone installed Pioneer speakers in kick panels? I can't figure out how to attach the plastic surround. The instructions show it being used with the little bolts, nuts and washers provided but they aren't long enough to even go through the surround. I assume these mount flush to the outside of the kick panel. If so do those repro 4x6 grills cover them? They will be about 3/8 inch raised above the surface of the kick panel and all the pics I see of those grills don't look like they are that thick.
 

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Is it necessary that you use the plastic spacer? The spacer is usually an adapter plate to fit the majority of applications but most of the time the tabs on the 4 corners of the speaker line up with the mounting holes of the kick panel, door opening, shelf etc...
 

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I agree with rennova, the plastic plate is merely an adapter for “factory” speaker replacement. It has hole placement for a number of locations and vehicle configurations. It is not necessary for custom installations.

If you need to use it, the bolts supplied should fit. The mounting holes on the plate should be recessed so looking at your photo, it appears to be upside down. The plate should mount on top of the speaker vs underneath.


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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I agree with rennova, the plastic plate is merely an adapter for “factory” speaker replacement. It has hole placement for a number of locations and vehicle configurations. It is not necessary for custom installations.

If you need to use it, the bolts supplied should fit. The mounting holes on the plate should be recessed so looking at your photo, it appears to be upside down. The plate should mount on top of the speaker vs underneath.


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I'm relieved to hear I don't need the adapter plate. I was thinking of not using it anyway. However the "instructions" on the box sure look like it's supposed to mount from underneath. (see pic).

I see how it works now. There is a recessed hex shaped hole where the little nuts fit in and then the washer goes on the top side of the speaker and the bolt goes into the plate under the speaker. That also matches the picture on the box of them with the adapter mounted.

What about the thickness of the grills? Will they cover the 3/8 - 1/2 inch thickness of the speaker above the kick panel?

UPDATE: I now see that by not using the adapter plate I gain an 1/8 inch or so in how far it sticks out from the kick panel. I have to cut the hole a little larger but as long as I get it so the back fits in that 3 1/2 x 4 1/2 square hole in the body I should be OK. That means the grills only need to cover 1/4 - 3/8 or so.
 

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Those spacer/adaptor plates are included with the speakers and may or may not be used. It depends on the installation.

Years ago some of the cars like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, and others used what I called a 3x5" speaker and then GM started using 4x6" speakers and by designing the speaker to work in both applications, it fit more vehicles. It was also nice having those adaptors to use as a template to mark a surface to be cutout. If you look real close on the box that most Pioneer speakers come in, there are templates punched into the cardboard that get cutout with scissors or a razor knife and then this can be used as a template to locate the hole cutout in a panel.

When you go to install the speakers for the last time, maybe put a real thin bead of 3M caulk on the back lip of the speaker where it contacts the cutout in the panel. By creating a good seal of the speakers outer flange to the panel, the better it will sound.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #7
On a convertible you have a brace in the kick panel area i dont think these are going to work unless you custom make a panel DONT cut any of that structure.



Steve
That brace is just below the hole the speaker goes into. I had to cut them out when I replaced the floor pans. I welded them back in as best I could but I'm sure the exact contour has changed a little. I was adapting hard top floor pans to work in a vert which was a bear but I think it came out OK.

I just cut out the right side. Now to see if the speaker fits!

Custom Jim, thanks for the tip on caulking them. I wouldn't have thought of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Got the right side mounted to the kick panel temporarily. I only had 1 inch long #6 bolts so I need to buy some shorter ones. I kinda tried to get it back in place just to see if it lines up with the opening and it appears to.

So how do those grills attach? I sure hope the screw holes aren't supposed to line up with the tabs on the speaker. Do you just drill small holes through the kick panel and into the metal behind there and screw them on?

And on those grills, do they come in plastic or only metal? I'd like to find plastic as I am fabricating a console and I bought paint for plastic/vinyl and I planned to use it for the speaker grills as well.
 

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The Pioneer 4x6 speakers do not come with grills so the only option is aftermarket ones or possibly ones from another brand. Normally the 4x6 speakers went behind factory grills so that is why they do not come with grills.

You can get the stamped mesh style grills for a first generation Camaro or for the 68-up Nova's

http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/...k-Panel-4x6-Speaker-Grilles-OE-Quality!-Pair/

I have seen aftermarket plastic 4x6 grills too. You just need to do some shopping and I kinda doubt any local shop will have any in stock as there jut isn't a lot of call for them.

How you have the speakers nut and bolted to the panel should be fine (with shorter bolts of course) and then the grill should have 4 holes on it that you could run some short screws through the grill and then into the kick panel nd not have them protrude too much on the backside that might interfere with hitting the steel substructures.

I have installed speakers with screws and sometimes I like to get at least one or more going into the steel behind the kick panel for better rigidity and if I have some that will not go into the steel, use some type of backup clip.

Jim
 

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Do you have a steel supplier locally that might have some steel mesh ?. We have a company called Shapiro Steel that allows customers to walk around in the building and they have all kinds of choices in steel, aluminum, and so on and have a wide selection of mesh material.

I don't know your fabrication skills but one could get some 3/8" hardwood and make a rectangular square with rounded corners that is larger than the speakers outside dimensions and then place a piece of steel mesh over it and with a hammer, bend and form the edges of the metal down against the wood plug and then trim off the excess. You would then drill equally even holes in the corners, countersink them and then with some pan head screws attach them to the kick panel. Yep a decent amount of work so then the steel mesh ones I've seen for about 50 bucks plus shipping might be a better deal.

I did a quick search earlier on ebay but the plastic 4x6 grills were only sold in lots of 12 for about $90.00. The steel ones then would be a better choice.

Also too, maybe think about spraying the new grills and screw heads the same color as the kick panels. It might make them blend in better.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thanks Jim. I don't know why I didn't see that one before but $15 shipped is reasonable enough that if I have to buy paint for metal it's no big deal. The only other alternative I'm considering is seeing if I can talk my son into printing me a set on his 3D printer. If I can do that I might get creative and have a bow tie in the center or spell out NOVA. Something like that.

UPDATE: Wow I'm glad I decided to buy a pair of those grilles. I just found out my eBay acct was hacked. It came up with someone else's address to ship to!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Should I use adhesive on the kick panels, especially around the air vent? Seems like there was some on them when I removed them. Also I'll probably want to use some on door panels. If so what kind? I don't want something that would tear them up if I have to remove them again.
 

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Should I use adhesive on the kick panels, especially around the air vent? Seems like there was some on them when I removed them. Also I'll probably want to use some on door panels. If so what kind? I don't want something that would tear them up if I have to remove them again.
I like using a product from 3M called Strip Caulk. It comes in strips that can be molded together by hand and then formed however you want. I've used it for years sealing holes in firewall when I run wires through them, used it to attach the vapor barrier's on doors behind the door panels, and in other situations. It stays pliable for years and is made for automotive uses.

Other might suggest a plumbing caulk but I have yet to try it in an automotive environment.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I like using a product from 3M called Strip Caulk. It comes in strips that can be molded together by hand and then formed however you want. I've used it for years sealing holes in firewall when I run wires through them, used it to attach the vapor barrier's on doors behind the door panels, and in other situations. It stays pliable for years and is made for automotive uses.

Other might suggest a plumbing caulk but I have yet to try it in an automotive environment.

Jim
That's what I had in mind. Can it be used to attach carpet to metal as well? There are a few places I'm going to have to glue it down and press it places to mold it like it should be.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Looking at the kick panel and the air vent it appears that caulk is only used between the air vent lip and the metal body behind it. It doesn't look like there was any on top the vent lip between it and the kick panel. So do I still need it if I haven't messed with the air vent?
 

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That's what I had in mind. Can it be used to attach carpet to metal as well? There are a few places I'm going to have to glue it down and press it places to mold it like it should be.
The 3M caulk is a non-hardening material and it remains pliable for it's life and would not be used to glue carpet to a metal surface.

There are differences between glues and sealers and you just need to look closely as to what they can or cannot do.

On carpet, you need to let it relax and let it conform to things. Sometimes too you need to add pieces of jute to build up low area's. If you were to use the 3M caulk, once it was pressed down in an area it will never come back to how it was before to support an area.

Off to tangent, did you get out to the SLICK car show in O'Fallon over the weekend ?

Next up for me is the Shapiro Steelfest in North Saint Louis on September 16th. Get there early and it's a hoot. Ratrods, burnouts, and an overall good time. Sam Shapiro does a very nice job controlling things.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157689529960395







Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I didn't know about SLICK (not sure what it is anyway). I was going to take my 68 Camaro up to a show at Lake St. Louis Baptist on Saturday but it was raining and I don't take either convertible out in the rain. Next weekend I'll be in Memphis so I'll have to miss Steelfest. Looks like a good time.

I went ahead and reinstalled the right kick panel. Looks like it worked out OK to me. I could use some paint touch up on the door frame.
 

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