[jimbo63]

Ive seen some threads about the hei conversion but I am totally a newb and have no experience w wiring but I have purchased the pertronix setup for my 63 nova 4 door w inline 6 and the wiring replacement is spooking me.

I posted some pics onto photobucket that I have been trying to get pertronix to respond to but they havent been alot of help on this.

http://s387.photobucket.com/albums/oo320/msgdesign/distributor/

I wanted to be sure I was replacing the right wire to a 12 gauge and going about it the right way. Any ideas on what to do?

Parts I ordered:
45011 45,000 VOLT FLAME-THROWER II (0.6 OHM)
91162A IGNITOR II DELCO 6 CYL W/VAC ADV

 

[65Nova4door]

Here are the pics:

Here are some comments:
1st pic - My the red wire from my coil ran directly to the starter (I undid all of the tape). I was told that this is wrong. It should run up to the connector behind the brake booster, where it connects to a ballast wire.

I believe that if you're running the pertronix coil and hei module, you want to run a direct 12volts from the starter to the coil.

 

[jimbo63]

So the taped up looking wire (i assume factory?) needs to be all undone and then within that same group of wires I need to replace the red wire with the 12 gauge wire? That ought to be fun.

Is there a sleeve I should purcahse to house the wires in after all that or just wrap it w electrical tape?

Also the connector behind the brake booster is pretty tight, I cant seem to get a good grip on the two tabs to depress to remove it. Any tricks to do that without breaking something that anyone knows of?

btw nova4door, thanks for posting the pics, i had trouble doing that once before and have been posting links instead.

 

[65Nova4door]

So the taped up looking wire (i assume factory?) needs to be all undone and then within that same group of wires I need to replace the red wire with the 12 gauge wire? That ought to be fun.

You should wait until one of the other guys that knows more to chime in, but that is what I plan on doing when I install my new wiring harness. I will leave the stock wire there in case I need to revert back to points.

btw nova4door, thanks for posting the pics, i had trouble doing that once before and have been posting links instead.

No problem. Guys seem to be more willing to help when they don't have to click on links...

 

[jimbo63]

ok, i just got this message from Pertronix...

You are going to have to get into your wire loom that goes back to your firewall. That runs into the connector of the fire wall. You shouldn't have to
touch the ones that go over to your brake booster.

The best way to find the wire to replace is by first hooking up the wires
back to the coil and starter. The Ignitor doesn't need to be installed to
perform these tests so don't worry if it's not installed. Once the wires on
the coil and starter are hooked up try the attached voltage test. Once you
start the voltage test you should notice a drop in voltage at coil positive.
Then you will just tract the coil wire back then it goes up in voltage. But
if by chance you don't notice a voltages drop your in luck. You will not
need to change the wire.

Sorry that I could of more help. But I couldn't find a wiring diagram for
your car here at the office or the web. So I can't tell you directly which
wire you will need to replace. But just follow the steps and you should be
able to get it wired correctly.

Im in over my head. I have purchased a multimeter and never dealt with that before either.

At this point theres only an engine without out a valve cover on it and starter attched. Ive been in the process of restoring whats under the hood and broken things down to paint and Im right now trying to re assemble it all.
Thought I should tackle the rewiring before I have too much in my way.
Ill try and attch a photo of the engine bay as it is now if it helps.

 

[jimbo63]

here is a current pic.

 

[DesertDeuce]

This is what I did, if I remember correctly.
1. I remove the engine harness from the connection fuse block on the fire wall.
2.I then unclip the wire out of the connector leaving the "spade" attached to the wire..
3. I use a new spade from advance/napa etc, and attach it to a new non resistance wire.
4. I plug this new wire into the the engine harness block where i removed the old wire and plug that back into the fuse block on the wire wall.
5. I run the new wire all the way to the distributer.
6. I make sure everything works right, and then wrap it all tightly with electrical tape.

The resistance wire should be white-red-black

The distributer only needs a 12 volt keyed on power, so you can run it anywhere really. Alternatively if you are too worried you can order a new engine electrical harness for a 6 cylinder with HEI ignition from M & H. http://www.wiringharness.com/

 

[nova_rookie]

pertronix

If you are just installing the pertronix:

1) originally there was a wire from the positive terminal on the coil to the firewall connector, I believe this wire will have a cloth tyoe insulation. This is the ballast wire. Remove the wire from the harness and the firewall connector. You will need to resolder a new wire to a terminal for the firewall connector. Run this wire to the positive terminal on the coil.
2) Put the red wire from the Pertronix to the positive terminal on the coil.
3) Put the black wire from the Pertronix to the negative terminal on the coil.
4) You can either leave or diconnect the wire that runs from the starter to the positive terminal on the coil.

You will end up like Figure 2 on the Pertronix drawing:
http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/ignitor12vneg.pdf

 

[tnblkc230wz]

If you are just installing the pertronix:

1) originally there was a wire from the positive terminal on the coil to the firewall connector, I believe this wire will have a cloth tyoe insulation. This is the ballast wire. Remove the wire from the harness and the firewall connector. You will need to resolder a new wire to a terminal for the firewall connector. Run this wire to the positive terminal on the coil.
2) Put the red wire from the Pertronix to the positive terminal on the coil.
3) Put the black wire from the Pertronix to the negative terminal on the coil.
4) You can either leave or diconnect the wire that runs from the starter to the positive terminal on the coil.

You will end up like Figure 2 on the Pertronix drawing:
http://www.pertronix.com/support/manuals/pdf/ignitor12vneg.pdf

I'll add a bit to this.

Your points distributor has two power sources. the source from the ignition switch runs through the balast resister. This drops the voltage to about 9 volts so you don't burn the points up.

The second source is from your starter solenoid. This provides 12 volts to the points while you are trying to start the car. Once the key goes from the start to the run position, this source is turned off and only the 9 volt source is hot.

Electronic ignition requires a 12 volts while running and being started so the ballast resistor is no longer required. You will need to splice into the wire on the ignition side of the ballast resistor so you are no longer using it. Run that wire to the positive terminal on the coil. Idealy this wire should be hot while starting the car and while the car is running.

From your distributor, the red wire will run to the positive side of the coil and the black wire should run to the negative side of the coil. Double check your instructions to make sure I have the color codes correct, but those were the colors for my Pertronix distributor.

If the ignition wire is not hot while starting the car, you will want to connect the wire comming from the start solenoid back to the positive side of the coil. If the wire coming from the ignition is hot while starting the car, this wire isn't needed. Put a piece of shrink wrap on it and tape it out of the way.

I hope this helps

 

[jimbo63]

Heres a pic of the only point along the way that connects to the firewall. I havent seen any ballasts along that bundled set of wires in electrical tape.

 

[DesertDeuce]

Heres a pic of the only point along the way that connects to the firewall. I havent seen any ballasts along that bundled set of wires in electrical tape.

You have to unplug that connector from the firewall. Then you remove the wire from that plug.

 

[nova_rookie]

Heres a pic of the only point along the way that connects to the firewall. I havent seen any ballasts along that bundled set of wires in electrical tape.

There is no "ballast" in the wire, the wire itself is the ballast. If you look closely at the wire you will see it is not a copper wire. It is a metal alloy that provides the ballast resistance which reduces the voltage to the coil. You need to replace the entire wire with a copper wire so that you get 12V to the coil.

Good luck, Mike

 

[RichP]

On my 64 194 i checked the voltage with the wires unhooked had 12v then hooked them back to coil had 12v and then started engine and checked voltage again still 12v so guess i am good to go. Might be a good idea to check voltage before you start cutting wires . it looks like mine has had the fuse block and wiring harness replaced maybe this has something to do with it not sure just know i have 12v. So my Pertronix should powered ok i hope.

 

[jimbo63]

Just took the wiring harness off the firewall and unwrapped it.
Just as I thought there is no red wire running to the firewall. The red wire that was connected to the positive coil terminal ran its own segmented connection and fed itself from the starter. However, it is paired up with what i think is the ballast wire im reading in this thread about. Is this the wire that i need to replace with a 14 gauge wire?

here is a pic of the ballast wire's connection points

So not sure what to do with the experience I have.
Maybe hook it all back up and test it to see what kind of voltage its getting, which will be another posted question from me on how to use the digital multimeter I just bought

Maybe buying a new wiring harness would be best assuming it has what I need and the fuse box is prepared to take on a newly configured harness with possibly more connections?

heres a few pics of the harness i have pulled

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/...ibutor/firewall-connection_2.jpg?t=1237739234

 

[RichP]

Mine has 2 wires running to coil positive one from starter and one fuse block beside booster i checked my voltage it stays at 12v . Mine has a purplish color wire and a white wire both hooked into same connector at coil positive.

 

[RichP]

jimbo, just finished tearing into the harness on my 64 after talking with novajoe he enlightened me on the subject the white wire coming out of the block by booster must be replaced you can remove the connector from the block or you can follow the white wire to where it is connected to the cloth coated wire and cut it and solder the connection. I was lucky enough to have and old harness with a good wire with right connections on both ends just swapped mine out the wire end will come out real easy all you have to do is slip a paper clip down on each side of terminal fron plug side and it and wire will slip out if i was you i would just get a good solder connection and hook another wire on i used a complete roll of electrical tape rewrapping the harness you don`t need the wire that is running to the outside post on starter that is where the points pick up 12v when starting then the old wire only carrys 9v after starting that is the reason you have to replace the wire.
Hope this makes things a little clearer.

 

[jimbo63]

Thanks for helping here Rich. Unfortunately the 63 (or at least mine) doesn't have the white wire you mentioned coming from the block. Only purple, yellow, green, black, blue and the cloth coated(ballast?) wire. Im wondering that in my case I could just remove the cloth coated ballast wire and replace that one w 14 gauge. So far thats the only thing that make sense to me with what I have to work with.

 

[RichP]

Like i said that connector comes out of the block pretty easy just check with advance or napa and see if you can get a new connector that will work and run a new wire straight to the positive side of coil and you are set.

 

[jimbo63]

Now I've done it

Ok, so in the process of breaking down the engine to paint it I had removed the distributor and have since turned the camshaft by trying to remove the harmonic balancer. From what I can figure in the Chilton manual it says to rotate the crankshaft til the #1 piston is top dead center. And from there it goes on with steps for a conventional ignition system, but I am converting to HEI so I am lost. Not sure what steps to take from here to get the timing relationship between the distributor and crankshaft.

Any tips?

 

[jimbo63]

Installed the harmonic balancer puller without the base nub onto the center bolt so it would only turn the crankshaft while a placed a screwdriver into the 1st spark plug hole to check when the 1st piston was at top dead center. Since the head has just been redone and put back on and currently have no plugs in it so the screwdriver was needed. I broke this engine down some time ago and little by little im getting things painted or replaced, and put back together.

Here is a pic

From the shop manual pic the timing plate is accurate cause this is where it hot top dead center on the 1st cylinder

The hope I had today was to get the distributor converted over to the pertronix ignitor kit I purchased and install the replacement coil wire into the box that RichP sent to me (many thx). I put the new vacuum advance part and started to install the pertronix kit when I read the part in the chilton guide about the timing being off now.

I have put the distributor back in but there is a gap between the block and the base. Shouldnt it be flush? I bought a gasket assuming I needed one although the manuals dont say anything about a gasket that ive seen.
heres a pic