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Discussion Starter #1
So I have some 4 point harnesses and want to install them safely. I have found that I need a cage or a harness bar to get the shoulder straps right.

I don't want a cage in my car, any ideas of where I can find a harness bar for my 3rd gen?
 

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Not sure why you need a 4 point without a cage. Wouldn't a standard 3 point be much easier? Is this a race car or street car? You are correct, you need a rear cross bar for correct installation. Incorrect installations can be a serious safety issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It's a street car that will see some track days. I don't NEED the harnesses but I like the style but want to do it right.
 

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If you don't have a roll bar, then don't install the shoulder belt. How fast do you think the car will go? If it's faster than 11.50 then you need a roll bar. Just run the lap belt. otherwise it won't be installed properly. Dave
 

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You can install the shoulder harness on the rear seat belt bolts, and the lap portion in the same stock front lap belts. You have to have custome long shoulder harnesses made, but it works well. I run mine this way in my 67.
 

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NOGO, I don't think that is the way it is intended to be installed. As you tighten your shoulder belts, it pulls on the seat towards the rear, putting tension on the seat mounting bolts. Must be mounted to a bar. And if you run a Y style belt, those are illegal. Dave
 

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You can install the shoulder harness on the rear seat belt bolts, and the lap portion in the same stock front lap belts. You have to have custome long shoulder harnesses made, but it works well. I run mine this way in my 67.
A word of caution...be careful mounting 3-inch wide shoulder restraints to the floor. If the shoulder restraints are mounted more than 4 inches below your shoulder, and if there is a sudden stop, the driver will rotate down into the seat (instead of being kept upright in the seat) and forward, especially if there is no anti-submarine belt. As the shoulders drop below the seat back, the driver is no longer restrained.

Think of where the belt mounts are, and that's the opposing direction that will be applied in a sudden stop.
 

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A word of caution...be careful mounting 3-inch wide shoulder restraints to the floor. If the shoulder restraints are mounted more than 4 inches below your shoulder, and if there is a sudden stop, the driver will rotate down into the seat (instead of being kept upright in the seat) and forward, especially if there is no anti-submarine belt. As the shoulders drop below the seat back, the driver is no longer restrained.

Think of where the belt mounts are, and that's the opposing direction that will be applied in a sudden stop.
I know the shoulder belts will compress the driver and allow forward movement, but without the shoulder harness and only a lap belt you will move forward either way. I am no driver safety expert, but I think the shoulder harness would not hurt nor help you compared to a 40 year old lap belt.

To be honest I only use the shoulder harness during autocross runs to hold me in the seat...
 

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...just be careful since it has been shown to cause severe throat and neck injuries because there is so much excess webbing - as the driver rotates down where the shoulders drop below the back of the seat, there isn't enough tension at that point to prevent the upper body from moving forward or side to side. Do you at least have something to prevent the shoulder webbing from moving laterally so they don't slide of the sides off the seat backs?

Some sports car sanctioning bodies only allow shoulder restraints if it is a factory mount location or if the car has a roll bar mount.

Speed never killed anyone...it's the sudden stops that tend to hurt.
- Jim Feuling
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah, the seats hold the harnesses in place. This pic shows the harnesses just sitting in place, I was fitting the seats to the car and nothing is bolted down. Just a planning phase.
 

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...just be careful since it has been shown to cause severe throat and neck injuries because there is so much excess webbing - as the driver rotates down where the shoulders drop below the back of the seat, there isn't enough tension at that point to prevent the upper body from moving forward or side to side. Do you at least have something to prevent the shoulder webbing from moving laterally so they don't slide of the sides off the seat backs?

Some sports car sanctioning bodies only allow shoulder restraints if it is a factory mount location or if the car has a roll bar mount.

What he said....IMPORTANT and something to NOT ignore. Just because you have safety equipment...if it's installed incorrectly it's very dangerous.
 

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Is that a 'Y' type shoulder harness or two single belts per seat? Y types are illegal anyway. Dave
 

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Well, they should still be secured to a cross bar. Just wear the lap belt. How fast is this car going to be? You have guys racing NHRA that don't require a roll bar in Stock eliminator and they only wear a lap belt. Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My intension was to use the shoulder harness to make is as safe as possible pending the proper installation. I guess I will use just the lap bars for now and see if I ever install a roll bar.

Thanks for all the help guys!
 

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You are probably best doing it that way anyway. Also you won't see many guys running around on the street with a harness on...at least not for long...it's a little overkill and you would definitely get the "looks". :rolleyes: If it wasn't safe with standard 3pt setups in passenger cars, there wouldn't be millions of them running around on the street.
 

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I too wanted something a bit more safe than just the lap belts in the 63. I fab'd up a set of mounts to facilitate a 4 or 5 pt harness they work great with the Scat seats and will also work fine with OEM seats. The guys are correct in the idea that they a bit much for everyday driving. A 3 point belt would probably offer the best of both worlds safety and comfort.




GG
 

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That's interesting. I used an old leftover main hoop I had and cut it down to fit behind the bench seat in my '63 C-10 and welded it to plates. I positioned the plates and the bolts to stradle the cab reinforcement that runs under the cab, and I fabricated a saddle plate underneath. Here's a mock up with the wrap-around shoulder belts.

 
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