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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, unfortunately i haven't had the money for a while to do anything to my nova seeings how i'm stuck at a horrible paying job. I haven't done anything to it since last year when i had it painted and i replaced most of the trim, lights and such. It has Hotchkis 2" drop springs up front and 1.5" drop leaves in the rear with kyb shocks that are already going from the drop with only a couple hundred miles on them.

Since its been about a year since i've done anything i'm kind of getting upset. Yeah i drive it when i can, which has been pretty rare since it always seems like its raining all the time, and i really miss doing things to it.

So i've set a goal for myself for the winter, for sure i'm going to pull the subframe off so i can get to the firewall and smooth it to make it all pretty like, and while the subframe is off i would like to clean it up and such.

Ok so to the question, i'm thinking about replacing either the subframe entirely to save myself the aggravation of cleaning up factory welds and replacing it with a speedtech subframe or i want to replace the rear suspension with the Detroit Speed and Engineering's quadralink kit. The rear kit would by far be the cheaper route to go at about $1500 plus shipping if i couldn't pick one up at an event or something. The subframe however gets seen more easily with the hood open and i may see the advantages such as the weight savings, better suspension geometry and much better look, but that will set me back probably closer to $3000 or $3500.

Which would you guys suggest? If i do the rear i will definitely have to go ahead and put in dse's minnitubs, but i will have to save considerably more to do the front. Let me know what you guys think, i'm at a crossroads, i don't want to get bored because i have an intense passion for this car and it kills me thinking of all i want to do to it and i can't.
 

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If time is on your side more then money, buy the rear set up and do the front yourself, some where here there is a template on where to relocate the upper arms to help the steering. For the most part the stock subframe is a pretty good set up out of the box.
 

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Ok, unfortunately i haven't had the money for a while to do anything to my nova seeings how i'm stuck at a horrible paying job. I haven't done anything to it since last year when i had it painted and i replaced most of the trim, lights and such. It has Hotchkis 2" drop springs up front and 1.5" drop leaves in the rear with kyb shocks that are already going from the drop with only a couple hundred miles on them.

Since its been about a year since i've done anything i'm kind of getting upset. Yeah i drive it when i can, which has been pretty rare since it always seems like its raining all the time, and i really miss doing things to it.

So i've set a goal for myself for the winter, for sure i'm going to pull the subframe off so i can get to the firewall and smooth it to make it all pretty like, and while the subframe is off i would like to clean it up and such.

Ok so to the question, i'm thinking about replacing either the subframe entirely to save myself the aggravation of cleaning up factory welds and replacing it with a speedtech subframe or i want to replace the rear suspension with the Detroit Speed and Engineering's quadralink kit. The rear kit would by far be the cheaper route to go at about $1500 plus shipping if i couldn't pick one up at an event or something. The subframe however gets seen more easily with the hood open and i may see the advantages such as the weight savings, better suspension geometry and much better look, but that will set me back probably closer to $3000 or $3500.

Which would you guys suggest? If i do the rear i will definitely have to go ahead and put in dse's minnitubs, but i will have to save considerably more to do the front. Let me know what you guys think, i'm at a crossroads, i don't want to get bored because i have an intense passion for this car and it kills me thinking of all i want to do to it and i can't.
Here's my advice. Take it for what it's worth to you (probably not much anymore, LOL!:eek:)

Take your time. Im sure your not going to part with the car you've owned since you were 15, and Im 100% your girlfriend wont let you. So dont worry about it. You've got all the time in the world.

If it were my decision, I'd do the rear first. The quadralink sounds cool, as do the DSE minitubs. But you got to fit everything into your ultimate goal for the car. Do you want it to go fast around corners or in a straight line? This is where decision making comes in. If thats the route you want to go, go for it. Its your car to do what you want with. Im always availible to help, and you know where Im at.

Take a look at my car. It cant go faster than [email protected] to save its life... And i just dropped more money on yet another turbo, intercooler, wideband A/F, and ext. oil cooler setup. Had to borrow some money from myself (sound familiar?) And you say you're getting bored...

You said it best, you're at a crossroads. It's up to you which way you want to go.
 

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Another thing to consider: You didn't tell us your goals for the car. Are they show, touring, autocross, drag racing. We can't really help until we know.

IMO, I wouldn't get an aftermarket frame unless you are building a show car, the ultimate road racer or have more money than you can spend.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well the goal of the car is pretty much a mixture of all three. I drive the car a lot so comfort is important to a degree (i kind of like tight suspensions), but i want to be able to take it to the strip and run a decent time (once i rebuild the motor down the road). I also love turns which i would say is going to be a bit more important than drag racing because you cant take turns very hard on a drag suspension so the car is going to lean a bit more towards autocross.

I think i've made up my mind after sitting down and thinking about it. I think i'm going to do the DSE quadralink rear as long as its got good reviews mainly because i can slowly build up the front suspension and down the road a few years i could transfer it all over to a new frame if that ends up being the goal of the car.
 

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You can make great improvements with out replacing the sub frame and save yourself gobs of money.

1) Replace the body mounts with solid ones.
2) Add sub frame connectors.
3) Rebuild the suspension using Del-a-lum, Delrin or similar control arm bushings, use polygraphite or polyurethane for the rest of the soft parts.
4) Replace all the worn out parts, ball joints, tie rod ends, drag link, pitman arm etc...
5) Change to higher rate springs coils and high performance shocks. (Your KYB shocks should do OK.)
6) Add or change to a larger front sway bar (1" solid or 1-1/8" hollow).
7) Perform the Guldstrand mod or replace your upper control arms with ones that change the suspension geometry, such as Global West or Detroit Speed.
Note: Some tubular control arms maintain the stock geometry, you don't want these.
8) For the rear install multi-leaf springs with a higher spring rate.
9) Install a quick ratio steering box.
10) Install wider wheels and tires.

The 1st generation Camaro and 3rd generation Nova's share the same suspension, both front and rear. So anything that applies to the early Camaro also applies to your Nova. Take a read through Pozzi Racing's First Generation Suspension pages for ideas.
It's worth your time taking a read through the Camaro Forum, look at the Brakes and Suspension and Pro-Touring sections.
 

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I would just put the Hotchkiss upper and lower a-arms in, you already spent the money on the springs and shocks, although, I would go with Konis.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i've already got global west 1/2 inch drop aluminum bodymounts, all bushings have been replaced with polyurethane, ball joints and tie rods have been replaced, i have competition engineering subframe connectors, a hellwig 1 1/4" front sway bar, Hotchkis 2 inch drop springs and stock control arms. The kyb shocks that i put on are already starting to go, will be my third set of shocks in 15,000 miles!

So i'm going to keep my subframe, remove it, clean it and powdercoat it and put all of my stuff back on. What i am going to do is at the very least replace the front springs/shocks and lower control arms with most likely global west lowers with coilovers to get the adjustability and have a spring/shock combo that are designed to work together, and later on i will get the upper control arms.

For the rear i am going to replace my existing hotchkis suspension with the dse quadralink suspension this winter as well as installing the dse minitubs.

Sound like it will be a decent combo for an all around performance car on and off the track (suspension wise anyway)?
 

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Del-a-lum and Delrin control arm bushings are better for handling than both poly and rubber as they have less give to them.

You might want to consider doing the upper control arms first. The changes in suspension geometry effect the caster, camber and bump steer and generally help the handling significantly.

Subframe wasn't that bad to strip and cleanup. A die grinder with a cutting disk works well for cleaning up the welds and slag splatter.


Personally unless you have money to burn, I wouldn't replace the subframe. Do the other front end stuff and then the rear. Sounds like you have a plan and are well along on your way there.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
i had planned on putting in a fuel cell anyway, and the q link comes with brackets that weld to the rear that bolt to a bracket that you weld to the frame rails
 

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Also to really change the front geometry for the better you need the Gulstrand mod, a tall ball joint, or tall spindle. Most aftermarket tubular arms just add caster and dont address the camber gain.
Check out SC&C's website.
 
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