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Discussion Starter #1
Today I painted the fire wall, top of the cowl and dash on my car. The paint looks real good except for the top and front of the dash, where it fish eyed real bad. I thought I had everything cleaned real well and had used the metal cleaner recomended by the paint manufacturer. The metal temp was about 70 degrees as was the air temp. I didn't prime the dash, just slightly sanded out a few scratches and buffed everything with a fine pad. I did prime the windshield opening just before I put the satin black on the dash and used the metal prep to wipe off any over spray that may have gotten on the dash. The part that I wiped to remove any over spray was the part that fisheyed. Also the part of the dash where the pad goes didn't fish eye at all. The dash looks worse now then before I started, at least the rest looks good. I know I'm going to have to sand the dash down and start over, any ideas so this doesn't happen again? Thanks Jerry
 

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Joe is right probably silicone! Try wiping down with alcohol before painting or priming. Don't spray any other kind of cleaner or lubricant any where near it! I've seen armor all and pledge carry as far as 60 feet away. Good luck!
 

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Definatly got some chemicals on the surface that made the paint fish eye. Go to your local Autobody store and ask for some mid temp paint prep surface cleaner and try that. Make sure you wipe it down several times and make sure you grab clean rags each time.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I think you gyys are on the right track with the chemical, silicone theory. I have been guilty of spraying armor all on the dash pad, and since where the dash pad was didn't fish eye at all. Thanks for the replys, Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I wonder if the silicone actually soaked into the old paint, and was not completely removed with the cleaner and by scuffing the surface?
 

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Most dashes have had years of "protectant" sprayed on them. You need to use grease and wax remover a number of times. Don't just wipe it on! You have to scrub it on, and dry it vigorously, while it's still wet. Do it a number of times,,,,,. Soak an applicator scrub it on, use a clean lint free towel to remove. Rub real hard....Repeat.... It's too late now, but you should never sand a surface that you suspect silicone on, before cleaning it, with grease and wax remover. Sanding just embeds the silicone into the paint. Good luck.
 

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As Rich said, the degreaser has to be put on wet and removed while it is still wet. You are trying to "float" the contaminates up to be wiped into the dry rags. One really wet rag followed by two seperate dry ones.
Change rags frequently.
Are you sure it's fisheyes and not rag marks?
In reading you original post it sounds like you used "metal prep" to wipe the overspray off the dash. I hope you mean degreaser and not actually metal prep. If you did use metal prep that could be your problem.
If you used degreaser you have to be careful not just to wipe it with one rag to remove the overspray. This will leave a film and marks will show in the paint where you wiped. They three rag method mentioned above should be used. Masking properly to eliminate overspray would ahve been better.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I don't think what I used was actually ''metal prep''.I had seen this term used before and thought thats what I had used. What I had actually used was Omni brand mx 190 ''cleaner'', that was recommended by the auto body store for cleaning the painted areas to remove oil, grease etc. Anyway thanks for the help and I'll try again. Jerry
 

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Silicone! argghh!! a painters nightmare. We wouldn't allow detailers to use any silicone-based tire dressing on the body shop property for this very reason. It always seem to make it through the air into the paintbooths. Laquer Thinner seemed to work well for me. You must use it liberally and dry it thoroughly with a nice clean towel. Dash areas are THE WORST for fish eye issues on a chevy II. I guess this is the punishment we receive for making the dash pad look slick all those years..lol.

Good luck ;)
Dave
 

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Common Problem. Easy Fix

When you apply your cleaner to your ready to paint parts make sure to where rubber gloves (the oil from your hands can be bad) and as you wipe down your painting surface use a air hose to make it evaporate more rapidly.Some cleaners soak into the primer ever so slightly and can make your paint look Fishy. Give a blast with the air as you go and I bet you will have better results.
 

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When I sprayed acrylic enamel years ago, there was Fisheye Preventer. It always worked for me. Is there something like this for this new type of paint?
 

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Ok...my dash forsure has had armour all on it in the past....So as part of the prep for painting do you think chemically stripping it to bare metal might be the best option to guarentee that the surface is silicone free?

Also I have used the fish eye eliminator/gloss enhancers in the past too...with IMO...awesome results....BUT with that said many people here are totally against them as most of them actually add silicone to the paint.(or at least that was my understanding based on another thread on this site about that product)

BTW does anyone know if Marsons Smoothie Fisheye eliminator contains silicone?:confused:

thanks:)
 

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You are right about the fisheye remover having silicone in it. The theory behind it is that it will use the surface tension of the paint to spread the paint over the contaminated area, but in doing so, is actually increases the area that the paint has little or no adhesion. If you do use fisheye remover, don't be surprised if you see blistering our bubbling of the paint after a few days in the blistering hot sun.

Your best bet is to scuff the paint, use the "3 rag" washdown method, blow in some 2-part urethane primer/sealer, block and repaint. You should be fine after that.. Heck, believe it or not, you can actually spray urethane primer over grease, wax, silicone, without having it fisheye...you could always use the old "paint-out" method too...light coat, flash with air, light coat, flash with air, medium coat, flash with air...
 

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if you put your base on to heavy it will cause it to fishye, can usually be corrected with a 15 min flash and light coats thereafter
 

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Don't mean to make your day worse, but I've striped interiors that fisheyed to bare metal, and had the primer fish eye on the bare metal. Some of that protectorent is nasty nasty stuff. We finally dusted it on dry for a few coats. :eek:
 

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DO NOT SCUFF THE PAINT FIRST!!!!


You need to clean it completely first.
If you scuff it you will push the contaminates into the surface.

69NovaSS,
I would use hot soapy water first if possible.
Follow with an aggresive wax and grease remover like PPG DX440 or
DuPont Prep Sol. Multiple applications with the 3 rag method posted above.
You cannot clean it too much. For the time it takes you are better off cleaning it many times. New rags every time.
Once you think it is clean, hit it again with wax and grease remover then scuff.
Ken is right, I've also had bare metal fisheye. Clean it properly to reduce the chances of it happening. If that fails then a little dusting as a second to last choice followed by Fish Eye eliminator as a last resort.
Armor All and products like it are not allowed on my property.
 

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TechNova said:
69NovaSS,
I would use hot soapy water first if possible.
Follow with an aggresive wax and grease remover like PPG DX440 or
DuPont Prep Sol. Multiple applications with the 3 rag method posted above.
You cannot clean it too much. For the time it takes you are better off cleaning it many times. New rags every time.
Once you think it is clean, hit it again with wax and grease remover then scuff.
Ken is right, I've also had bare metal fisheye. Clean it properly to reduce the chances of it happening. If that fails then a little dusting as a second to last choice followed by Fish Eye eliminator as a last resort.
Armor All and products like it are not allowed on my property.
well I havent touched it yet so cleaning it is still an option....BTW by dusting it do you mean to spray it on thin/dry?
 

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Spray it on dry. Add a little less reducer on the first coat or stay back further when you spray or move a little faster. You don't want it too dry, it shouldn't be dust laying on the surface.
Only do this after the first coat has fisheyes in it, don't plan on spraying dry from the start.

Cleaning is essential to minimize the chances of needing to do this.
I've had great luck with the "rags in a box" from Menard's, white or blue,
Cheap and clean.
 
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