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One thing I don't recall reading in this topic. Is that You will be running MORE E85. When going from gas to a Alky Motor ,The carb jetting needs to be Bigger then they would be for Normal Fuel. This is what i have been told many times By different racers. I also Found this out myself. On my Daughters Jrs dragster When we switch from reg, Race fuel to Elky. Yeah I paid less per.Gal. But I used twice as much.The Jr Ran 8.90s in the 1/8.
One other thing I have done in the past was to mix the Elky with 87 fuel In my 88 chevy Van If i stayed with 3/4s of a tank of the cheap stuff and a 1/4 elky I got a little better mpgs. But i tired a 50/50 I got less mpgs then if i just ran straight 87. Mind you I did this with OUT making any changes in timing,plugs. This also was not E85, But it was the same elky I ran in the Jr. Not that there is much difference I don't think??
This E85 was also a topic on the Inliners And from what I also understood and from what testing I did with elky and gas ,The E85 will have less Mpgs then the reg fuel we already now use.?????
So just my 2cents worth.
 

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Twisted6 said:
One thing I don't recall reading in this topic. Is that You will be running MORE E85. When going from gas to a Alky Motor ,The carb jetting needs to be Bigger then they would be for Normal Fuel. This is what i have been told many times By different racers. I also Found this out myself. On my Daughters Jrs dragster When we switch from reg, Race fuel to Elky. Yeah I paid less per.Gal. But I used twice as much.The Jr Ran 8.90s in the 1/8.
One other thing I have done in the past was to mix the Elky with 87 fuel In my 88 chevy Van If i stayed with 3/4s of a tank of the cheap stuff and a 1/4 elky I got a little better mpgs. But i tired a 50/50 I got less mpgs then if i just ran straight 87. Mind you I did this with OUT making any changes in timing,plugs. This also was not E85, But it was the same elky I ran in the Jr. Not that there is much difference I don't think??
This E85 was also a topic on the Inliners And from what I also understood and from what testing I did with elky and gas ,The E85 will have less Mpgs then the reg fuel we already now use.?????
So just my 2cents worth.
Ya we talked about the MPG difference between the fuels(some quotes below)...BTW that is interesting that a mixture of 25% alky would actualy increase MPG...very interesting indeed:)


GrandmaGold said:
As afar as my knowledge goes, you need to run a alcohol type carb (being that Ethenol is just like Alcohol, you need to have 1/3 more fuel than regular gasoline) and fuel pump. I think Aeroquip teflon fuel lines (insted of the rubber type) should be sufficent.
69NovaSS said:
Would a person be able to just rebuild a gas carb with the correct parts/gaskets to withstand the corrosiveness of the alcohol and then increase the size of the jets by roughly 30 percent?:confused:

==sYc==> said:
Remember, your fuel economy will drop on E85. For example, if you got 30-mpg on gasoline, you will only get about 20-mpg on E85. Make sure you factor that in when you price the stuff. Basically the price of E85 has to be about 2/3rd of the price of gasoline before you start saving money. So unless you can get $2-gal E85, you'll be spending more on fuel.

69NovaSS said:
Well first I would not think of running e85 if my car could run on 87 octane fuel. BUT it will not run on that fuel it will likely need substantially more octane than that so that is when it starts to become economicly feasiable to do this.

From a few sources I have heard the current price of E85 is slighlty less then the price of 87 octane. So I can have 105 octane fuel for slightly less then the cost of 87 octane. If it turns out due to my 11.5+cr (will know the exact cr in the future) using iron heads to boot that I need to run 100 octane to avoid knock then e85 is a huge bargin. You cannot buy 100+ octain fuel for less money then you can get e85. And I would speculate that most 100+ octane fuel is indeed at least a 1/3 more expensive than e85 (though i have not looked into that yet)

Yes I will lose mileage..thats a given.... On this car however thats no biggy. So instead of getting 9mpg...like it did in the past it will not get 6mpg. Again no biggy. The car will get crappy MPG no mater what I run for fuel it always did in the past and it always will as long as I own it...:)

69NovaSS said:
ummm...no...his assumption is based on, or at least I assume it is, my replacing 87 octane fuel with e85...well that is NOT the plan....my plan is to replace 100+ octane gas with 105 octane e85. when you look at it that way there is indeed a cost savings to be had. E85 is currently slightly less then 87 octane fuel...100+ octane gas is substantually more then that in cost.. ;) :)

I dunno maybe I'm out to lunch on this:confused: :)

bigkaboose said:
There is an article in the Popular Hot Rodding magazine for July. The article states that E85 can be as much as 113 octane. With this we can run 13.1 compression and it will cost cheaper than regular. The article does state if you got 10 mpg you will now get 9 but again the savings of paying $$ for super and getting gas thats higher octane that is cheaper than regular out weighs it. Plus who cares its cleaner:D
 

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Hi,

Im real interested in using E85 in high compression street engines as well.

I am not sure it will be easy.

First I guess I have learned a little in what little research I have done.

There is alcohol as in methanol, then there is alcohol an in ethanol.
They appear to me very different.

Methanol is what I guess most motor sport engines run and it takes roughly 2 times as much by weight to equal gasoline.

Eathonal (again I guess) takes about 1.6 times as much by weight to equal gasoline, and that is basically (and 15% gasoline) what E85 is.

What ever the exact calculation is Im not sure a simple jet change would make me happy with a carb. I would think the bleeds- emulsification- power valve restrictions-idle-etc-etc- would also have to be modified. I would not mind doing this, I just have to learn what I need to do.

I just built a 12.7 to one 350 for my daughters (shes 15) 92 camaro, and Id like to try it in this car. Its sold about 4 miles from my shop. Im very interested in it, I just dont know anything about it yet.

Jeff
 

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As far as storing E85, it would have to be stored in an air tight container as the fuel is suseptable to absorbing water. With E85 they say you can also run 6-10 degrees more timing with out ping.
Here's a chart i download to show the aprox increase in jet area when using E85. So if your running a 66 jet, then you need to step up to a 74.

Jet #
Diameter
Flow area
147%
~147% Jet #
66
0.066
0.003421
0.005029
74

67
0.0663
0.003452
0.005075
74


68
0.0685
0.003685
0.005417
76

69
0.0693
0.003772
0.005545
76

70
0.0735
0.004243
0.006237
79

71
0.075
0.004418
0.006494
80-81

72
0.0755
0.004477
0.006581
81

73
0.079
0.004902
0.007205
82

74
0.08
0.005027
0.007389
83

75
0.082
0.005281
0.007763
85

76
0.084
0.005542
0.008146
87

77
0.0855
0.005741
0.00844
88-89

78
0.087
0.005945
0.008739
90

79
0.089
0.006221
0.009145
91

80
0.089
0.006221
0.009145
91

81
0.092
0.006648
0.009772
92-93

82
0.094
0.00694
0.010201
93-94

83
0.0975
0.007466
0.010975
95

85
0.0985
0.00762
0.011202
96

86
0.1
0.007854
0.011545
97

87
0.1015
0.008091
0.011894
98

88
0.1025
0.008252
0.01213
98

89
0.1045
0.008577
0.012608
99

Thanks,
Jeramie
 

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well the 1/4 may not have been that much But real close. It was fuel we had left over when we sold her dragster which was a few mos Old. The person who bought the dragster didn't want it. And I really didn't want to waste it. So i just figured what the heck way not dump some into the Van and I had right around 3/4s of a tank of fuel and I just figured what the heck it can't hurt with that kinda cut. my 88 is a 350 tbi 700r 3.42 in the rear. Mind you i did this mix thing a few years ago so I can remember what the real numbers were now Or what the small fuel mix was. But i do remeber it was ruffly a 1/4 to 3/4 But when I tried the 50/50 The drop was bad enough to me I had thought I may have made a big OPPs it seemed to run on the crappy sides and The mpgs Took a big dive meaning Less then 16 mpgs when the van ran a average of 18 city 24 hwy which to me is not bad for something push 5000lbs plus.(seeing it does have a fiberglass topper on it).
 

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Good news if you are looking into this, and were worried about availability of E-85. I just heard on the news that there are new refineries underway! They are turning old breweries ect into refineries, 2 news ones here in MI alone will be going up soon!!!
 

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Hi,

What ever the exact calculation is Im not sure a simple jet change would make me happy with a carb. I would think the bleeds- emulsification- power valve restrictions-idle-etc-etc- would also have to be modified. I would not mind doing this, I just have to learn what I need to do.

Jeff
Jeff, I do think your right on this...I was looking through the Bill Mitchell Hard Core Catalogue and saw that they do sell recalibrated Metering blocks for holley carbs specificly for Alcohol. For a 750 carb it looks like they are about 50 bucks give or take a bit per metering block. Now I suspect this is calibrated for the more common Methanol based fuels used in race cars so I dont know how this would translate out to Ethanol which is what E85 is largely comprised of.:)
 

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Hi Duane,

I would think there would be quite a bit of difference between methanol and e85. There is also orifices in the main body and base plate that would require modifications as well.

Jeff
 

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Gas

Maybe "Moonshine Stills" will be back in style?Just like mico-breweries!
Mike
 

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Hi.

Duane, are you still interested in this? I was at a trade show this week that featured an E85 "shoot out". I think the winner was a 400 small block with a carb and it made abour 660hp. Kinda neat A 383 was second with ove 630.
 

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ya Jeff its still pretty interesting stuff...man those motors sound pretty bad azz:cool:
 

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November 2006 Car Craft (red 3rd gen Nova on cover) has all the details on this.
 

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E85

Best source of info would probably be your local circle track. These engines run for longer periods of time and would be somewhat closer to what you or I might see on the street. I will say one of the benefits not mentioned is the cooling effect alcohol has on an engine. In racing a smaller fan pulley and lighter, smaller radiators are used. I've even seen VW's race with the cylinders hanging in the breeze with no other form of cooling while running alcohol. You are also able to run rich without power falling off but run lean and all is toast. From what I've seen though I don't think any roundy-round guy would ever put up with the trouble of running alcohol on the street. just me
 

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Well at the moment for me the deciding factor will be when I actually start the build on the motor. IF by that moment in time the availability of E85 has increased in my area I will likely give it a shot if it s not more available i wont likely do it....the motor will be built accordingly depending on which way I finely decide to go based on availability...BTW I could be out to lunch but I believe the old VW motors(old VW bugs) were air cooled from the factory:)
 

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Sure, All the first VW's were air cooled. They also all came with a fan and tightly fitted cooling tin. The engines I refer to have no fan and no cooling tin of any kind. Like you might see on an airplane, with the cylinders hanging out in the breeze. With gas you still have heating issues but with alcohol the heads can run cool enough just from passing air around it. I raced Formula VEE's for years and always wanted to try alcohol but rules didn't allow it.
 

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There are plenty more sites out there about this I researched it last summer when the gas prices soared. I was researching distillling my own eathanol. The initial cost of the still is high but it will pay off in the long run. you can distill eathanol for less than 75 cents per gallon. you need to apply for a distillers liscense from the government though.
 

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Anyone using E85 or some E85??

My 383 runs poorly on 87 octane, a little better on 89 octane (90/10 gas/ethanol blend), and runs much better on 93 octane that costs about $0.30/gallon more.

I took my car out on Sunday for the first time in a few months, and it was pinging quite a bit on the old gas in the tank. I put four gallon of E85 on top of half a tank of four month old 90/10, and all the pinging went away.

I think the E85 is 105 Octane, and in IL costs less than regular gas.

Anyone know of a reason not to be blending some of the E85 in with 87 or 89 octane?
 
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