Chevy Nova Forum banner

21 - 40 of 140 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,416 Posts
Hello,

I didn't know that there was already a thread on this topic here. I guess I should have searched it out.

What I am looking for is what carb modifications are required as well as seals and type of fuel line and pumps.

I have read some on the carbs, and they simply refer to "jetting up". I dont really think simply changing jets will be sufficient to provide a proper fuel curve. I was wondering about the mods required to the power valve restriction- emulsification - air bleeds etc.

I have a bunch of Teflon fuel line, maybe that will work. The fuel pump and the carb are may major concern.

I have a wide band sensor that downloads to my laptop, and I am hoping that I can dial the fuel metering based on that.

I was just looking for a starting point.

Someone should start another thread that would discuss the politics of the energy situation. I have some rather biased views but I want to talk about drilling holes in carbs here, not wind mills in Teddy Kennedy's ocean view.


Maybe just cars here?

Thanks
Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Hi, To make the car E-85 "friendly" you'd technically need to have fuel lines, pump, an carb gaskets that are alcohol friendly. The ethanol acts as a cleaner agent so run a good fuel filter. With the carb it would make sense to have to mess with the bleeds to get the correct curve for the engine. With the powervalve i'd also think the pvcr's would have to enlarged accordingly. Awsome power has been made with this fuel. Here's the link to a car making over a 1000 hp with it.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/e85dyno.php

Actually in theory you should be able to get the same if not more mpg's with E-85. The problem with the flex fuel vehicles is that they are not optimized for the fuel. E-85 is happy with high compresion as it has an octane rating around 106(i think). Yes E-85 isn't the answer but at least it's a start. Any thing that lessens the amount of non-renewable resources used, is fine by me. As with all things that are new, i think they will find ways to use less energy to create the fuel.

Jeramie
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
Well I've been thinking that I might just set my car up to run E85. The 105 octane is very attractive with the CR I will be potentially running (roughly 11.5:1 BUT I will know the exact number when parts are measured). And the prices I have heard for it sound really attractive too (right around the price for regular unleaded)

So what exactly do I have to do to convert my fuel system to run this product. I know that all the rubber for the system needs to be removed and replaced with Alcohol resistent products but what would be a good ball park jump to make in jet sizes that I could make to get me close to the right size? Also what else would have to be done to the carb other than jets to make it work with this fuel?

How about fuel pumps what should be done to it? I currently have an electric but will be replacing it. I see that certian electric pumps are listed as safe for alcohol use but do they make a mechanical pump that would work with this fuel or should I just keep using an electric pump? What about fuel lines(would stainless line be a good idea), filters, etc???

Anyway, any input is appreciated, especially from those that have made the change to alcohol

thanks in advance:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,308 Posts
I am uncertain about your jet sizes but I do know that most of the things I have heard is from Pat Goss. He is one of the Tech guys on Motor Week and has a radio show every weekend in the Metro D.C. area. Well, he has mentioned this subject numerous times and you are on the right track with the replacement of the fuel lines. But I don't remember Pat saying to replace any major components because of the new fuel. He did however stressed the fact that you will need to replace your in-line fuel filter due to the alchol based fuel will chemically clean / strip the whole fuel system. And this will clog up any and all fuel filters. It might gum up that electric fuel pump but I am no certified mechanic. ( certified nut case sometimes :eek: )

Hope this helps

Dan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
DriveWFO said:
Duane, how much cranking pressure do you anticipate having?
Honestly Dave I dont know...I cant even say for sure what the CR will be until I am farther along the line...the pistons I have will supposedly give me 11.87:1 cr with the heads I have at zero deck with a .038" gasket....But things are not always up to the factory specs so until I measure I'm not sure exactly what I will have...I can guess but thats not worth a darn:)

As far as cranking pressures are concerned I wont know for sure unitl I have it together and do the test. i'm sure there is a way to figure it out /guesstimate mathmaticly but that is beyond me:eek:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
ovrdrive said:
I am uncertain about your jet sizes but I do know that most of the things I have heard is from Pat Goss. He is one of the Tech guys on Motor Week and has a radio show every weekend in the Metro D.C. area. Well, he has mentioned this subject numerous times and you are on the right track with the replacement of the fuel lines. But I don't remember Pat saying to replace any major components because of the new fuel. He did however stressed the fact that you will need to replace your in-line fuel filter due to the alchol based fuel will chemically clean / strip the whole fuel system. And this will clog up any and all fuel filters. It might gum up that electric fuel pump but I am no certified mechanic. ( certified nut case sometimes :eek: )

Hope this helps

Dan
Well I want to intall all new lines anyway no matter the fuel so I was thinking I would get the stainless lines....they're really not a ton more then the steel lines...So I think that will be the way to go...Ya I read some stuff on the filters about them needing changing often due to the alcohol "cleaning" the crap outta the system...of course if the entire fuel system is new there shouldnt be a lot of crap that can be cleaned outta the system..or at least you wouldnt think there would be:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
As afar as my knowledge goes, you need to run a alcohol type carb (being that Ethenol is just like Alcohol, you need to have 1/3 more fuel than regular gasoline) and fuel pump. I think Aeroquip teflon fuel lines (insted of the rubber type) should be sufficent.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,921 Posts
there is a write up about this in one of the car mags. chp,superchevy or carcraft cant remember which one.. but its a very interesting article...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
GrandmaGold said:
As afar as my knowledge goes, you need to run a alcohol type carb (being that Ethenol is just like Alcohol, you need to have 1/3 more fuel than regular gasoline) and fuel pump. I think Aeroquip teflon fuel lines (insted of the rubber type) should be sufficent.
Would a person be able to just rebuild a gas carb with the correct parts/gaskets to withstand the corrosiveness of the alcohol and then increase the size of the jets by roughly 30 percent?:confused:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
81 Posts
69NovaSS said:
Well I've been thinking that I might just set my car up to run E85. And the prices I have heard for it sound really attractive too (right around the price for regular unleaded)
Remember, your fuel economy will drop on E85. For example, if you got 30-mpg on gasoline, you will only get about 20-mpg on E85. Make sure you factor that in when you price the stuff. Basically the price of E85 has to be about 2/3rd of the price of gasoline before you start saving money. So unless you can get $2-gal E85, you'll be spending more on fuel.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
==sYc==> said:
Remember, your fuel economy will drop on E85. For example, if you got 30-mpg on gasoline, you will only get about 20-mpg on E85. Make sure you factor that in when you price the stuff. Basically the price of E85 has to be about 2/3rd of the price of gasoline before you start saving money. So unless you can get $2-gal E85, you'll be spending more on fuel.
Well first I would not think of running e85 if my car could run on 87 octane fuel. BUT it will not run on that fuel it will likely need substantially more octane than that so that is when it starts to become economicly feasiable to do this.

From a few sources I have heard the current price of E85 is slighlty less then the price of 87 octane. So I can have 105 octane fuel for slightly less then the cost of 87 octane. If it turns out due to my 11.5+cr (will know the exact cr in the future) using iron heads to boot that I need to run 100 octane to avoid knock then e85 is a huge bargin. You cannot buy 100+ octain fuel for less money then you can get e85. And I would speculate that most 100+ octane fuel is indeed at least a 1/3 more expensive than e85 (though i have not looked into that yet)

Yes I will lose mileage..thats a given.... On this car however thats no biggy. So instead of getting 9mpg...like it did in the past it will not get 6mpg. Again no biggy. The car will get crappy MPG no mater what I run for fuel it always did in the past and it always will as long as I own it...:)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
FunkyNova66 said:
:eek: Looks like you need to can that idea, Duane.:rolleyes: :D
ummm...no...his assumption is based on, or at least I assume it is, my replacing 87 octane fuel with e85...well that is NOT the plan....my plan is to replace 100+ octane gas with 105 octane e85. when you look at it that way there is indeed a cost savings to be had. E85 is currently slightly less then 87 octane fuel...100+ octane gas is substantually more then that in cost.. ;) :)

I dunno maybe I'm out to lunch on this:confused: :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
There is an article in the Popular Hot Rodding magazine for July. The article states that E85 can be as much as 113 octane. With this we can run 13.1 compression and it will cost cheaper than regular. The article does state if you got 10 mpg you will now get 9 but again the savings of paying $$ for super and getting gas thats higher octane that is cheaper than regular out weighs it. Plus who cares its cleaner:D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
bigkaboose said:
There is an article in the Popular Hot Rodding magazine for July. The article states that E85 can be as much as 113 octane. With this we can run 13.1 compression and it will cost cheaper than regular. The article does state if you got 10 mpg you will now get 9 but again the savings of paying $$ for super and getting gas thats higher octane that is cheaper than regular out weighs it. Plus who cares its cleaner:D
My point exactly:) If your running high compression and e85 is avalable in your area I think its a win win situation for a hot rodder. You can run your high compression motors at a cost slighly less then that of regular fuel.....Like I said its win win for sure;) :cool: :)

for once you can have your cake and eat it too:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
e85

Ok so someone help me out with this, my car is about to go on the road, but engine has 11.1 -1 comp so i would have to run 110 or sunoco 93 at least. Are you saying that E85 is 105 octane only? or that 105 octane E85 is cheaper than comparable of normal fuel? also anyone in michigan know where to purchase?

thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
chevy65supernova said:
Ok so someone help me out with this, my car is about to go on the road, but engine has 11.1 -1 comp so i would have to run 110 or sunoco 93 at least. Are you saying that E85 is 105 octane only? or that 105 octane E85 is cheaper than comparable of normal fuel? also anyone in michigan know where to purchase?

thanks
Well sorta saying both but not quite...

I went to the E85 website(link below) and they say it is 105 octane. Another member here posted that in a magazine article they say it CAN be as high as 113 octane. Either way it is a high octane fuel. Its cost right now is a little less then 87 octane regular gas. However without making changes to your car it will not run well on it. BUT once the changes are made e85 could be used. To find a dealer near by just go to the link below...

http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,245 Posts
69NovaSS said:
Well sorta saying both but not quite...

I went to the E85 website(link below) and they say it is 105 octane. Another member here posted that in a magazine article they say it CAN be as high as 113 octane. Either way it is a high octane fuel. Its cost right now is a little less then 87 octane regular gas. However without making changes to your car it will not run well on it. BUT once the changes are made e85 could be used. To find a dealer near by just go to the link below...

http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php
It's selling here at Sheetz for $2.65/gal.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,210 Posts
DriveWFO said:
It's selling here at Sheetz for $2.65/gal.
how does that compare to your regular gas(87 stuff)? I know here in GA right now that is lower then 87 is costing to buy:)
 
21 - 40 of 140 Posts
Top