Cooling issues

3916 Views 31 Replies 15 Participants Last post by cdahl383, Jul 30, 2012

Esteban mejia

Discussion Starter · Jul 23, 2012

i recently finished building my 383 stroker, heres a quick run down so you guys can get an idea of my set up.

-eagle crank,i beam connecting rods
-keith black dished hypereutectic pistons
-comp cam xtreme engergy 274 flat tappet cam/lift kit
-comp pushrods,harland sharp 1.5 ratio roller rockers
-brodix iron killers aluminum heads 1.60/2.02 valves 64 cc 180
-cloys true double roller timing chain
-summit water pump
-edelbrock rpm air gap
-pertronix distributer/ msd blaster 2 coil/ autolite 3924 plugs
-sanderson cc14 silver thermal ceramic coated
-speed demon 650 vaccum secondary

-TH-350 trans with TCI breakaway 2200-2400 stall converter/TCI shift kit

-champion cc65BA 3 row aluminum radiator, with
-summit racing 16'' s blade reversable electric fan(sumG4904)

yesterday i was trying to get my engine tuned and timed, i just got my headers back from sandersons because the coating came off the first time,
anyways i started it up and got it to idle, I had a little over 8 degrees of timing i know it was under 12, and the with in a few mins the headers started to smoke, or break-in the coating, checked the oil,carb,trans all looked good. within 10 mins the temp started climbing, I have a 160 thermostat,and it immidiatly got past 210 and my header collectors were GLOWING Bright RED!! i have a toggle switch and keep the electric fan on all the time, but it just gets hot, i havent even driven it because the temp goes up so fast before i can get out of my driveway. im not sure what i should chase,

the fan i have is a 2010 cfm s blade, should i need something that pushes out more? fan shroud? and if so does anyone know one that fits a champion radiator, im unsure if the shroud will do it,

advice will be greatly appreciated,

if i didnt mention, this is a brand new build with only the break in miles on the motor.

Thanks,

Esteban Mejia

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1 - 20 of 32 Posts

sevenzeronova

· #2 · Jul 23, 2012

Think you need more timing.

f16fxr4real

· #3 · Jul 23, 2012

heat

First, i'd got to a 180 T-stat at least, maybe even 190. That size fan is NOT going to keep you cool in Cali. You dont know anyone else with a Nova that will let you pull their shroud to see if it fits?

sevenzeronova

· #4 · Jul 23, 2012

The glowing red headers is not enough timing most likely. It firing way too late.

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157189

sbc1320

· #5 · Jul 23, 2012 (Edited)

sevenzeronova said:
The glowing red headers is not enough timing most likely. It firing way too late.

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157189

I agree either not enough timing or way lean on fuel. That will get the coating on your headers and is what makes them glow. Make sure you have the right balancer and timing tab comination.

Minimal timing would be 12 degrees up to around 16 degrees. If you have a sticking advance weight or a broken advance spring it will show up as initial timing with a timing light and will throw you way off.

Esteban mejia

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 24, 2012

im in the realm of 12 degrees of timing, and i have it idling at 1k, everything seems to check out for the most part but the temp. i had a 180 before and it still got over 200 and this was with my sbc 350 with iron heads, so i switched it 160 so see if that would help, and the 350 engine had the same cooling set up so the only thing that i didnt change at all with this new build was the water pump/radiator (because they are both new) besides that everything is new.

some were saying i could have air trapped and to burp it out, some said to drill a 1/8 hole in the thermostat, and and a local street rod shop said my electric fan is not enough, that i should get something that pushes out right around 3000 cfm so i dont really know what to consider besides switching the electric fan out for a higher cfm fan. im just getting frustrated now because its been siting too long and if its not one thing, its another,:bored: i just seem to have the worst luck with engines.

MBZTECH

· #7 · Jul 24, 2012

The 3,000 cfm fans sound like a jet engine. Install a mechanical fan and shroud and be done with it. RICK

PCPete

· #8 · Jul 24, 2012

Me too!

I've been having similar issues. My timing is easy, but what I ran into was the new water pump I installed was for a serpentine belt system instead of a v-belt. It's a Gates pump and has no part numbers and taking the back off didn't help because the impeller is cast an I can't see the vanes. The only clue was the picture on the instructions. The box is long gone - a chevy pump is a chevy pump - or so I thought. The serpentine engine water pumps turn the opposite direction from the v-belt pumps. They look the same and bolt up the same. I replaced the pump with the correct type and so far so good. I'm seriously considering ditching the electric fan and putting the mechanical fan back on.

sevenzeronova

· #9 · Jul 24, 2012

What kind of water pump did you install? Some are universal, meaning CW or CCW they have straight blades and don't work well. I don't think the fan your running is big enough either.

nova-guy

· #10 · Jul 24, 2012

Overheating

I had the same issues with my car two years ago, I finally purchased a BECOOL aluminum rad and a huge cfm single fan that puts out more than twin fans. Before the new rad I bought a high flow aluminum rad and still had problems. I removed my thermastat and my engines sit at 160 degrees and no more overheating problems.
I tried a fan shroud before all this and it did not help at all.

batman09

· #11 · Jul 24, 2012

Esteban mejia said:
i recently finished building my 383 stroker, heres a quick run down so you guys can get an idea of my set up.

-eagle crank,i beam connecting rods
-keith black dished hypereutectic pistons
-comp cam xtreme engergy 274 flat tappet cam/lift kit
-comp pushrods,harland sharp 1.5 ratio roller rockers
-brodix iron killers aluminum heads 1.60/2.02 valves 64 cc 180
-cloys true double roller timing chain
-summit water pump
-edelbrock rpm air gap
-pertronix distributer/ msd blaster 2 coil/ autolite 3924 plugs
-sanderson cc14 silver thermal ceramic coated
-speed demon 650 vaccum secondary

-TH-350 trans with TCI breakaway 2200-2400 stall converter/TCI shift kit

-champion cc65BA 3 row aluminum radiator, with
-summit racing 16'' s blade reversable electric fan(sumG4904)

yesterday i was trying to get my engine tuned and timed, i just got my headers back from sandersons because the coating came off the first time,
anyways i started it up and got it to idle, I had a little over 8 degrees of timing i know it was under 12, and the with in a few mins the headers started to smoke, or break-in the coating, checked the oil,carb,trans all looked good. within 10 mins the temp started climbing, I have a 160 thermostat,and it immidiatly got past 210 and my header collectors were GLOWING Bright RED!! i have a toggle switch and keep the electric fan on all the time, but it just gets hot, i havent even driven it because the temp goes up so fast before i can get out of my driveway. im not sure what i should chase,

the fan i have is a 2010 cfm s blade, should i need something that pushes out more? fan shroud? and if so does anyone know one that fits a champion radiator, im unsure if the shroud will do it,

advice will be greatly appreciated,

if i didnt mention, this is a brand new build with only the break in miles on the motor.

Thanks,

Esteban Mejia

Did you break it in with coated headers?

sedandan

· #12 · Jul 24, 2012

nova-guy said:
I had the same issues with my car two years ago, I finally purchased a BECOOL aluminum rad and a huge cfm single fan that puts out more than twin fans. Before the new rad I bought a high flow aluminum rad and still had problems. I removed my thermastat and my engines sit at 160 degrees and no more overheating problems.
I tried a fan shroud before all this and it did not help at all.

What fan did you use?

Esteban mejia

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 24, 2012

batman09 said:
Did you break it in with coated headers?

the sanderson cc14 headers i currently have were a set i ran on my old sbc350 and the coating had already been cured so to say. but then later peeled so i sent them back after i just broke in my new 383 stroker and got the headers back recoated last week and installed them back on the engine and ran the engine, and messed with the timing thats all, but yeah it was like bright bright red,ive never seen that in my life.i thought my wires were going to be toast, good thing i bought those spark plug wire covers!!

Esteban mejia

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 24, 2012

sevenzeronova said:
What kind of water pump did you install? Some are universal, meaning CW or CCW they have straight blades and don't work well. I don't think the fan your running is big enough either.

its just a "high flow"summit long water pump, ive been thinking of getting a weiand action plus water pump, and a zirgo electric fan or im not sure something better then what i have and see if that helps. would you say dual is better or single electric fan.?

63SSRagtop

· #15 · Jul 24, 2012

Duals usually better, pull more cfm but you need the surface area on the radiator (peeps are fitting late model duals from camaros), big fans eat up precious room.

Yeah anytime headers get that hot its usually timing (had timing belt skip a tooth once that took forever to figure out)

Also have had bad thermostats right outta the box, always a good ideal to boil them and make sure they open..

I've got an electric on mine which i've not ran on aluminum becool but i'm going to going with a flex fan and a shroud to be safe.. dont think there is an easier way to move more cfm..

nova-guy

· #16 · Jul 24, 2012

nova-guy said:
I had the same issues with my car two years ago, I finally purchased a BECOOL aluminum rad and a huge cfm single fan that puts out more than twin fans. Before the new rad I bought a high flow aluminum rad and still had problems. I removed my thermastat and my engines sit at 160 degrees and no more overheating problems.
I tried a fan shroud before all this and it did not help at all.

The fan I bought was a Flex- A - Lite, model 180.
Do not go back to mechanical with a shroud, its not enough air, at least not on my car.

sbc1320

· #17 · Jul 24, 2012

batman09 said:
Did you break it in with coated headers?

I broke mine in and all of my cars with headers. Mine are coated, no damage done and won't be if everything is right.

sevenzeronova

· #18 · Jul 24, 2012

I think 12 is to low, I would try 16 to 18 initial and 36 40 total.

cdahl383

· #19 · Jul 24, 2012

I think the other guys on here are right about the glowing headers, sounds like the timing is off. Probably too retarded. You said it was at 12 BTDC at idle around 1000 RPM? Is it possible your damper slipped and is off a little now? Sometimes older ones will slip over time.

I got tired of guessing on mine so I got a new damper and found TDC with a piston stop and made sure my timing mark lined up properly.

My old radiator finally got kind of cruddy and I eventually went with an BeCool aluminum radiator and stuck the original shroud on there with a flex fan. It works pretty good, but sometimes it does creep up a little on really hot days at idle. Usually it sits around 180-190 though, I'm running a 180 thermostat.

I'd play around with your timing a little to see if you can get the header issue to stop. See where its at to get it to stop and then verify what your total is to make sure you're not too high. If you suspect your damper has slipped maybe you could try to verify TDC so you're sure that is or isn't the case.

Are you running vacuum advance? If so, are you running it to a ported or manifold source? If you run it to a manifold source, it will add more timing at idle which will definitely help out. It will drop out at WOT though so it wont throw your total timing out of wack. I run 16 initial and then another 10 vacuum advance so I have 26 degrees of timing at idle. Sounds like a lot, but my engine likes it and idles pretty good. I only run 32 degrees total.

Hope you get your issues resolved soon so you can do some cruising! Good luck!

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Esteban mejia

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 24, 2012

cdahl383 said:
I think the other guys on here are right about the glowing headers, sounds like the timing is off. Probably too retarded. You said it was at 12 BTDC at idle around 1000 RPM? Is it possible your damper slipped and is off a little now? Sometimes older ones will slip over time.

I got tired of guessing on mine so I got a new damper and found TDC with a piston stop and made sure my timing mark lined up properly.

My old radiator finally got kind of cruddy and I eventually went with an BeCool aluminum radiator and stuck the original shroud on there with a flex fan. It works pretty good, but sometimes it does creep up a little on really hot days at idle. Usually it sits around 180-190 though, I'm running a 180 thermostat.

I'd play around with your timing a little to see if you can get the header issue to stop. See where its at to get it to stop and then verify what your total is to make sure you're not too high. If you suspect your damper has slipped maybe you could try to verify TDC so you're sure that is or isn't the case.

Are you running vacuum advance? If so, are you running it to a ported or manifold source? If you run it to a manifold source, it will add more timing at idle which will definitely help out. It will drop out at WOT though so it wont throw your total timing out of wack. I run 16 initial and then another 10 vacuum advance so I have 26 degrees of timing at idle. Sounds like a lot, but my engine likes it and idles pretty good. I only run 32 degrees total.

Hope you get your issues resolved soon so you can do some cruising! Good luck!

im pretty sure the damper didnt slip, i have the entire block has about less than an hour of running time, all brand new parts, and with the keith black pistons it was advertising to not exceed 34 degrees total timing, i think the headers were glowing when i didnt have enough timing soon after i shut the car off and let it cool for 30 mins started it back up, didnt glow anymore but the temp did start climbing again within minutes, i have 18 degree stops on the distributor, and i have to check were i left of again but im close to 12,deegrees, like i said i think i want to get a new electric fan with a built in shroud but cant find a single one that fits ,my current radiator, is a champion CC65BA, 3 row aluminum. the core measures 16 1/4 tall by (23 1/4 wide) i found a zirgo 16'' fan that suppose to pull 3000 cfm, but i dont know a thing about that brand so it makes me a little nervous. i want to try to swap out the thermostat and probably new water pump. im really running out of ideas, i feel like if i got the timing squared away, and left everything else as is, it would still over heat, Im a little confused

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