[underatree]

Yesterday I was helping my buddy put togother his nova engine.And while I was at his house he gave me my old thermostat housing back.So I went home and attempted to swap out my crappy leaking housing for my one I knew was good.

The first bolt came right out.The second one seemed kinda tight.Then I felt it snapp in half.This is not an old pos intake.It is a new edelbrock performer RPM for vortec heads.So I can't just swap another one on.

So I got out the drill and drilled a pilot hole in the center of the broken bolt.Drilled 2 larger sizes and grabbed my ez-out.Well it started to pull the old bolt out and guess what.SNAP.So now I have a ez-out and and a broken bolt in my new intake.After about 3 more hours of cussing and drilling and grinding.And hitting a punch tryin to spin the ez-out back out I have the intake pretty messed up.It's gonna have to go to larger bolt for sure and maybe even a heli coil.


What I need to know is there a drill bit that is harder than the ez-out.I have heard of this happening and always heard it sucked.But is a new intake the only solution?


This sucks.



Thanks for any help.

 

[levisnteeshirt]

wouldn't sweat it

i wouldn't sweat it too much ,,, get the bolt out however you have to ,, you could even have the hole welded up and redrilled ,,,

Sux for sure ,, but there is a way out

i trust a well installed heli-coil more than threads without them myself , so that route shouldn't be a problem either

 

[Rroxon7]

Yep...first and foremost...get it out in whatever means it takes...If you have to redrill the hole and tap it to the next size..I believe the thread size is 5/16..You might have to go up to 3/8....good luck....If worse come to worse...get another intake..

 

[Ironman]

The EZ out will be harder than any regular HSS or cobalt drill. You would need to use a solid carbide drill or solid carbide endmill to drill it out. Any reputable machine shop should be able to get it out but that requires intake removal obviously.

You may be able to bust the EZ out up with a punch. If you can do that you can drill out the bolt to the minimum thread diameter (which is the bolt thread outside diameter) and then run a tap through to get the rest of the bolt material out. Then you could see if the threads are usable or not. If not in good shape simply drill out to the correct size and install a threaded insert (Helicoil). Worse case weld up and redrill and tap. Good luck.

 

[underatree]

Well first of all thanks for the quick and helpful replies.

I have been trying to break the ez-out with a small center punch.Maybe I will try and larger one.

Right now I am gonna step back 4 a minute and try again in a little while.To be honest I have been thinking about stepping back from the car thing 4 a little while.But I can't leave the truck broken.So this must be fixed.I am so frustrated with this truck it's unreal.After swapping engine's,New fuel system,New ignition,Bla bla bla.It still wont run right.


I need a break.......


Thanks again.

 

[firebird77clone]

Pull the intake and take it to a machine shop.

unless you really WANT the hassle of fixing it yourself..

in which case here are some tidbits from a similar thread:

A carbide burr bit in a die grinder can cut it out. Just be careful and don't egg it out.

I once had luck by heating the little bast cherry red with a torch, then letting it cool slow. It annealed ( softened ) the easy out and I was able to drill it out with a Tin bit.

Your attempt to bust it up with a center punch is sound. I have sucessfully done it on broken taps many times, they are very hard.

You can also use a stick welder, and weld it out. How you do that is to build up on it a little at a time. Once you have a nice lump projecting past the top of the intake, you then weld a nut on the lump. Put a wrench on the nut, and spin it out ( the heat from the weld process usually losens it up ) They make special weld rods for this purpose, but the special rod is not necessary. It is more about the technique. JUST DON'T WELD THE BOLT TO THE INTAKE ( but it's an aluminum intake, so no risk there ). I suppose a MIG would do it just as easily, if not more easily.

finally, word to the wise... an easy out is always weaker than the bolt you are trying to remove. never put as much torque on an easy out as you would the bolt. That being said, basically DON'T TRY ONE on a bolt which broke during removal. The threads are jammed up beyond the strength of the easy out.

Nine times out of ten I end up just drilling out and tapping the threads clean. I mean, I drill out and try an easy out, but it's just a desperate measure and ultimately a waste of time. Sometimes, if I shoot some heat in the drilled bolt, with a torch, then apply the easy out, success. Usually, just wasted time. The best application for an easy out is when the bolt broke from over-torquing during installation. That is because the threads of the fastener are not in a bind, as the torque is released when the bolt breaks.

Also, there are different styles of easy outs. The spiral shaped ones bite deeper into the bolt the harder you turn, and ultimately put MORE bind on the threads by expanding the bolt. Bad news. The square shaped ones which you hammer in seem to expand the bolt less, and do a better job.

AS for removing bolts broken from over-torquing during installation, you can do just as well with some left-handed drill bits. Just start drilling the bolt out as you would usually do for an easy out, and usually the bit grabs on the bolt enough to spin it out.

 

[69LT1Nova]

All sound advice.

If you do happen to get a bite on that SOB with another EZ-out, or the welding method, soak it in PB Blaster before trying to spin it out. :yes: It creeps down the threads better than any other product I've used.

 

[D-Man]

Looks like someone didn't put enough (or ANY) anti-seize on the bolt before installing it.:devil:

Find a GOOD tool supply local to you and get a small tungsten carbide REVERSE TWIST drill bit. :yes: Generally while drilling the bolt out, the heat of the bit along with whatever cutting lube you use will end up spinning the broken bolt out even before you get that deep into the drilling process.

Another thing I've done in the past is to put a clean nut on top of the broken stud (even if it is a little below the surface) and weld through the center of the nut to the stud. Immediately after welding, soak the area with a good penetrating lube. Obviously it's a little hot and will help the lube "Wick" into the threads. Then use a LITTLE impact on the nut to try and loosen it. The hammering action of the impact will usually help break up the corrosion in the threads.:yes: If the nut breaks off, at least the amount of heat applied will destroy some of the hardness of the easy-out and make it easier to drill.:yes: Even though a LOT of them nowadays are Chinese and aren't near as hard as they used to be anyway.

Go ahead and get a heli-coil kit. Chances are the threads are already weakened by the deterioration of the corrosion/electrolysis.

 

[slow3oh]

All sound advice.

If you do happen to get a bite on that SOB with another EZ-out, or the welding method, soak it in PB Blaster before trying to spin it out. :yes: It creeps down the threads better than any other product I've used.

I 2nd this!!!!!

 

[underatree]

Well I still haven't gotten the stupid thing out.I called my buddy that is a machinist and he is supposed to bring me a carbide 3/8 bit tommorow.

I didn't use anti seize on the threads even though I guess should have.Being that it was an aluminum intake with a steel bolt.

Thanks for all the good advice.Firebird77clone,You Bring up alot of good points.They all make since.

Just another bad thing that has happened to me this week!


Hopefully tommorow is better.

 

[patman]

For the price of a new intake and a set of gaskets...cut your frustration and just replace the intake. Sell the old one on eBay or craigslist (be honest about the broken bolt) and let someone else deal with the hassle.

 

[MarkW]

As a tool and die machinist for 30 years I can tell you don't try a carbide bit at home! Take it to a machine shop and let them use a Bridgeport mill to get it out. Anything you use now will wallow around trying to find the easiest path and that broken easy-out is not an easy path. A milling machine will lock down the manifold and force the cutter to take the correct path. It's an easy setup and won't cost anywhere near what a new manifold would cost. And never screw a steel bolt into aluminium without protection again!

 

[JRouche]

We have all been there once, or more, some ending results better than others.

I do have a bridgeport mill and I would remove it in a sec with that. But like Mark was saying, without a firm mounting like a mill I wouldnt use a carbide endmill, it will just move around.

Now a carbide drill will keep its path but you are gonna need a good center punched hole. Cant center punch it so take a dremal tool with a grinding bit and make a center punch. After flattening the top surface. If its above the boss on the housing then its easier. If below then still workable, just a lil more difficult.

Ok, carbide drills are expensive. But masonry drills are not. Any machinist worth his profession has used them. Buy a 10 dollar masonry drill, carbide tipped, and grind the point with a lil more angle and relief on the backside of the cutting edge. A 1/8" drill will work. Just make sure to not grind the leading edge of the tip. A drill press will make it easier for drilling, more pressure and less wobble. Masonry drills can drill hardened steel no problem.

For other stuck bolts a solid hit with a BFH works well too. It opens up the threads a lil sometimes enough to break the seize thats happened. Steel to aluminum is real sticky subject LOL You will use anti-seize the next time, thats how I learned, or I should say didnt forget, cause it sounds like you already know this..

And last but not least, heat is a good thing for stuck bolts. An oxy-act rig is great for this cause with a really small tip you can put some serious heat in a very localized area.

But I would try the 10 dollar concrete drill. Make sure to put a nice lil divit right in the center of the easy out, flat the top first so yer not bouncing around. .

Dont grind too much of the supporting back off the tip on the drill bit, it will chip, but not nearly as quick as a solid carbide drill will. Carbide does not not free hand drilling, it will chip. But masonry bits are very tough, umm?? Think about all the solid blows they take, you would never do that with a carbide endmill or solid carbide drill bit. JR

 

[underatree]

Well I have took the intake off.And let me tell ya that was one very well stuck on in take.I used gaskacinch and edelbrock gaskets and I almost believe I could have picked that motor up using just that sealant holding it!(Not really but close)


Anyway I have a drill press and I plan on somehow rigging up a device to clamp it down.And using my buddies carbide drill bit.He said he has a cobalt and a carbide and he's bringing both.

If that wont work my girl freinds uncle has some machine tools.One of them I know is a lathe and the other might be a bridgeport.He is also a machinist by trade.He would probably help.


Yes I learned a lesson.USE ANTI SEIZE!

I was just looking through jegs and saw a new intake is 190 bucks.And right now I got about none of them so who knows!


Trust me guys I appreciate all the good advice you have been giving me.Mainly what I got out of this is that it's best to leave to someone with experince with stuff like this.And some times it's best to walk away and leave something be.Until you can think about it.And don't use ez outs and last but not least.USE ANTI SEIZE.



On a good note we got my buddies 410" small block put togother today for his 71 nova.That turned real well and should be a torque monster!


Thanks again.

 

[73ss406]

if and when you do get it out, i would use studs and anti sieze to reassemble it

 

[underatree]

Well my buddy showed up and we rigged up the manifold to the drill press using wedges and c-clamps.He had a carbide bit and it wouldn't even touch that stupid ez-out.

I am not sure if the manifold is ruined or not.Basicly we drilled another hole next to the broken ez-out.We tapped it with a 3/8 tap.Not a good solution and I serouisly doubt it will work.However the housing is bolted back down and in a position that it basicly started in.

Still haven't decided if I am going to use it.

if and when you do get it out, i would use studs and anti sieze to reassemble it

I was already thinking to use some all thread and make a stud on the bad side.Using JB weld to hold the stud in.That combined with some silicone!

Then again if I put it back togother and leaks I will have to buy 2 sets of intake gaskets.......

 

[firebird77clone]

STOP

Your bud is a machinist.. ask him to take it to work and hog it out with an end mill. Then weld it shut, and re-drill and tap it on center.

Either that, or you have a nice paperweight.

 

[underatree]

Well IMO I already have a nice paperweight.

After thinking about the cost of buying another set of gaskets and having to swap intake's if it doesn't work.I have decided to buy a new intake.It's not worth the trouble or the cost trying to deal with it.

On another note I believe I found the culprit of the problems I have been having with the truck.While talking with my buddy yesterday he was telling me about an s-10 he had that did the same thing.It would drive around fine and rev freely while not moving.But under a load or when you mashed the gas it would fall on it's face.

He said it was a restriction in the fuel line.So thing morning I took the factory line from the back of the cab to the engine out and tried blowing through it.I could barely blow through it all.So I need a new fuel line.


This chapter of my hotrodding has been a crappy one.And after getting so frustrated I wanted to quit the whole deal.I beleive I have the biggest problem with the truck figured out.Hopefully I will be back in business in a month or so and she will run like it should.


Mark this one up as a stupidity on my part!

 

[74 hatchback]

All sound advice.

If you do happen to get a bite on that SOB with another EZ-out, or the welding method, soak it in PB Blaster before trying to spin it out. :yes: It creeps down the threads better than any other product I've used.

Air tool oil works even better

 

[patman]

You don't have to get a NEW new intake, check the classifieds here or craigslist, etc. You might be able to pick something up used for much cheaper.

Just make sure all the bolt holes are good!! :devil::devil: