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Can you color sand the base coat between coats? I'm using Deltron DBC2000.
Color Sanding
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The only time you should need to do that is if you have a run in the base or a nib in it. Use 600 or finer and don't dig in. Then base coat again over the repair. Then clear. This all has to be done within the proper recoat window and ppg is 24hours I believe at least it is with DBU and DBC. Bill
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Sure ya can, if your trying to finish it off for a glassy look, then use 600 to 800, if it's runs, make sure it didn't get to hot and go to the metal or through the primer...
Curious how your paint job turned out ? pics would be great
Curious how your paint job turned out ? pics would be great
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I'm putting the sealer on today. 2 coats of DAS 3027. I'm not sure If I will get the base on today or tomorrow. I will finish it up tomorrow. I would like to bet the base on and let it set about 18 hours. It is pretty cool, so I think I will be ok.
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How long do you have to paint over that Sealer w/out scuffing ?
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Yes you can sand DBC between coats. If you sand it you MUST put at least one more coat of base on before clearing.
Depending on what you have, you may want to sand with 1000-1200 grit. Coarser if it is taking too long. If you only have a few nibs to remove, you do not have to sand everything. Spot sand the areas where it needs it. If you have texture sand the entire area then fix the problem on some test panels before respraying the car.
As for the 24 hr recoat, that is correct for DBC. However, everytime you put on another coat of base you have a new 24 hrs. Theoretically you could put on a coat every 23 hours and continue to paint the car for days or years. I would keep the time as short as possible to reduce the chance of contaminants getting on the surface.
Also, if you have sanded the entire surface of the basecoat the 24 hr rule does not apply since you have created mechanical adhesion. You can recoat this surface with more base at any time. Again I would be concerned about contaminants if you let it sit too long. You can reclean the surface with DX330 if you need to.
For 3027 you have a 72 max topcoat time. I don't think anything more than a couple hours is really helping but I know there are times when the schedule dictates more then a couple hours. I have not seen a sensitivity window with the 302X line of sealers. (K36 sealer had a sensitivity window, that is you could topcoat within one hour, or after 6 hours. If you tried topcoating between 1 and 6 hours it would lift. Strange one.)
Keep the car in a clean area and tack it good before you spray the base.
If I'm reading your post right you want to let the base sit 18 hrs before clearing????
Again, unless it's a schedule issue you are not gaining anything by waiting that long. 1/2 hour is routine, wait a couple if it makes you feel better
The longer it sits the more crap can get on it.
I do not know your shop conditions, unless you have a booth it is hard to keep the surface clean.
Chuck71 is right, you shouldn't have runs. Beginners put the base on way too heavy usually. It is not supposed to have gloss when it is just the base.
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Dx103 s&@#$cks
I am painting in my garage. I scrubbed the walls and floor yesterday and covered the few things I can't move. I also have a 2200 CFM furnace fan and filter to move air.
Now for the bad new. I tried using DX103 as an anti-static and it caused the paint to bubble. I sprayed it on the flat surfaces to repel the dust and let it evaporate. I noticed it bubbling in the places I sprayed, so I stopped cleaned the trunk and hood again with DX330 and all was good. But now I need sand the top and tops of the fenders. I'm hoping it won't be too bad. I only have one coat on.
I'll sand it with 400 again. Is it best to use wet to dry when I redo it? I'm still bebating if I'll sand the color coats. My wife is commenting on all the time I'm spending. Below are the pics of the bubbled roof and clean hood.
Roof
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Hood
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Before starting
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I am painting in my garage. I scrubbed the walls and floor yesterday and covered the few things I can't move. I also have a 2200 CFM furnace fan and filter to move air.
Now for the bad new. I tried using DX103 as an anti-static and it caused the paint to bubble. I sprayed it on the flat surfaces to repel the dust and let it evaporate. I noticed it bubbling in the places I sprayed, so I stopped cleaned the trunk and hood again with DX330 and all was good. But now I need sand the top and tops of the fenders. I'm hoping it won't be too bad. I only have one coat on.
I'll sand it with 400 again. Is it best to use wet to dry when I redo it? I'm still bebating if I'll sand the color coats. My wife is commenting on all the time I'm spending. Below are the pics of the bubbled roof and clean hood.
Roof
Hood
Before starting
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it's not the arrow, it's the indian
At the rate you are going, you may never be a painter, but you are going to be one helluva sander. :yes:
DX103 is not the problem, application is. It won't "repel dirt". It is an anti static spray. You mist it on, cured sealer, or base. When spraying, it will be hard to see it land on the surface.
A full wet coat, on fresh base/sealer, will cause problems like you have. Pull back about 9-12 inches from the surface, shoot at 35psi, and move quickly.
Push the car aside and cover it. Go get an old panel and learn how to paint. It's more fun than sanding, trust me.
At the rate you are going, you may never be a painter, but you are going to be one helluva sander. :yes:
DX103 is not the problem, application is. It won't "repel dirt". It is an anti static spray. You mist it on, cured sealer, or base. When spraying, it will be hard to see it land on the surface.
A full wet coat, on fresh base/sealer, will cause problems like you have. Pull back about 9-12 inches from the surface, shoot at 35psi, and move quickly.
Push the car aside and cover it. Go get an old panel and learn how to paint. It's more fun than sanding, trust me.
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372 Posts
I'm not sure about your DX103 issue so I cannot help you there. But I would like to say again that I would see not need to sand your base coats unless you are trying to make some kind of repair as I said earlier. Can you sand them, yes you can, buy why would you want to. The base goes down flat and is not like clear that gets peel in it. I'll say it again I would spray the base, do a repair if necessary within the recoat window, respray base over the repair and then clear it. Spend your time sanding, buffing and polishing the clear and you will be very happy with the result.
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166 Posts
The Base will only lay down for you if you are spraying it correctly, i think the problem is he hasn't found what a good coat should be...
The best way to describe a good coat IMHO is a closed coat, where there is no holes or gaps put on a nice closed coat, let it flash do it again and be done...
and what are those holes in ur first pic ? is that fish eyes ??????? DO NOT SPRAY ANY KIND OF ARMOR AL or any kind of silicone product in your shop it's lighter than air and will get on everything and cause fish eyes..
Ill try and get some pics today, im painting our 66 l-79 today
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Spraying
Yes u are right the first picture I see is fisheyes... contamination .... check your shop and make sure there is no Armoural or oil based products .... the best way to eliminate the fisheyes is to clean the surface with a prekleenal product, not sure what the # is for PPG, but it is D900 for RM (BASF) after you have cleaned the area you will want to sand with 600 wet and then base. If you find the fisheyes come back when u put the base on do not panic, let the base flash off or go dull and then come back and lightly coat just the area were the fish eyes are and u can bridge the fisheyes with the base, spray light coats and blow dry with air /light coat blow dry, until they are covered.
getting back to your question about sanding base.... if your denibing (dirt specs) sanding out dirt then just sand that little area with 1200 wet and one coat of base back over that area only. If you are sanding runs in the base ( highly doughtfull) then wet sand with 600 wet and base area only....and yes u can let your base sit for 24hrs before clearing,, however make sure the car doesnot get anything on it as this would cause fisheyes in your clear... if you have time I would base and clear to eliminate any chances...
Good Luck!!!
Yes u are right the first picture I see is fisheyes... contamination .... check your shop and make sure there is no Armoural or oil based products .... the best way to eliminate the fisheyes is to clean the surface with a prekleenal product, not sure what the # is for PPG, but it is D900 for RM (BASF) after you have cleaned the area you will want to sand with 600 wet and then base. If you find the fisheyes come back when u put the base on do not panic, let the base flash off or go dull and then come back and lightly coat just the area were the fish eyes are and u can bridge the fisheyes with the base, spray light coats and blow dry with air /light coat blow dry, until they are covered.
getting back to your question about sanding base.... if your denibing (dirt specs) sanding out dirt then just sand that little area with 1200 wet and one coat of base back over that area only. If you are sanding runs in the base ( highly doughtfull) then wet sand with 600 wet and base area only....and yes u can let your base sit for 24hrs before clearing,, however make sure the car doesnot get anything on it as this would cause fisheyes in your clear... if you have time I would base and clear to eliminate any chances...
Good Luck!!!
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5,153 Posts
The fact that you have fisheyes in the roof and fender but not the rest tells me it is not an airborn contaminant.
You may not have cleaned those areas properly. You may have gotten some contamination on the solvent rags during the cleaning process. You may have gotten contamination on the tack rag. You may have had contaminated hands and grabbed the tack rag. Doing so may not have caused a problem until you flipped the rag and wiped the roof, now the contaminated part of the rag is touching the roof.
It's all speculation, just giving you examples of what can happen.
Our rep told me of a case where a guy was having fisheyes in hoods but not in fenders. It happened on multiple cars. They finally figured out the guy had started using a new deodorant and it caused fisheyes when he extended his arm to paint a hood. His arm pit was closed when he painted fenders so there was no problem. He went home, showered and came back with his old deodorant on and never had fisheyes.
The point is to look at every possible place to find the cause.
Do you have a place for air to come in??? I see your pic of the exhaust fan, wasn't sure where the air came in. It should be opposite the fan.
You may not have cleaned those areas properly. You may have gotten some contamination on the solvent rags during the cleaning process. You may have gotten contamination on the tack rag. You may have had contaminated hands and grabbed the tack rag. Doing so may not have caused a problem until you flipped the rag and wiped the roof, now the contaminated part of the rag is touching the roof.
It's all speculation, just giving you examples of what can happen.
Our rep told me of a case where a guy was having fisheyes in hoods but not in fenders. It happened on multiple cars. They finally figured out the guy had started using a new deodorant and it caused fisheyes when he extended his arm to paint a hood. His arm pit was closed when he painted fenders so there was no problem. He went home, showered and came back with his old deodorant on and never had fisheyes.
The point is to look at every possible place to find the cause.
Do you have a place for air to come in??? I see your pic of the exhaust fan, wasn't sure where the air came in. It should be opposite the fan.
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I misted over the car before putting the sealer on, then let it evaporate. I then sprayed the sealer. When I saw what was happening, I recleand the car with DX330 and the probelm went away. Did I missunderstand how to use it?At the rate you are going, you may never be a painter, but you are going to be one helluva sander. :yes:
DX103 is not the problem, application is. It won't "repel dirt". It is an anti static spray. You mist it on, cured sealer, or base. When spraying, it will be hard to see it land on the surface.
A full wet coat, on fresh base/sealer, will cause problems like you have. Pull back about 9-12 inches from the surface, shoot at 35psi, and move quickly.
Push the car aside and cover it. Go get an old panel and learn how to paint. It's more fun than sanding, trust me.
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72 Posts
Dx330
Not sure if the DX330 is a cleaner or not but if it is when using a cleaner you would either pour it onto a clean rack wipe it on a small area and them wipe off with another dry clean rag. I use a pump bottle for my cleaner much nicer to spray it on, these bottles can be purchased in any automotive store, just fill with procuct u are using and pump and spray.This process allows all contaminates from the surface to rise to the top while the cleaner is still wet and then when you dry it off removing the contaminates...
Not sure if the DX330 is a cleaner or not but if it is when using a cleaner you would either pour it onto a clean rack wipe it on a small area and them wipe off with another dry clean rag. I use a pump bottle for my cleaner much nicer to spray it on, these bottles can be purchased in any automotive store, just fill with procuct u are using and pump and spray.This process allows all contaminates from the surface to rise to the top while the cleaner is still wet and then when you dry it off removing the contaminates...
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Your doing OK for some one who hasn't done much painting. I would recommend simplfing your process. Like sombody else mentioned do a test run 1st. Wet the floor and walls if possible. Prep the panel with wax and grease remover. I don't use static eleminator usually but a cheap trick is to spray 50-50 rubbing alchol and water in the garage (not on the panel). Wipe the panel with a tack rag. Spray sealer. When it's dry you can nib (lightly sand) any lint or trash. Then tack rag again. Apply paint in light even coats with 50% overlap. The 1st coat will look blochy usually and then every coat after that just looks better. Nib any trash after 2nd coat and as needed from then on and tack rag between every coat. Two wipes (hole car) is all I'll use a rag for then I'll get a new one. Everybody does it different If you were painting every day you would find your rythm and would have your own way of doing it. Just don't get freaked out and theres always plenty of guys here to help you out out.
My car was painted with PPG and it is about the same color. It doesn't cover all that great so pay extra attention to the edges. And I use a flash light to make sure i don't miss one.
My car was painted with PPG and it is about the same color. It doesn't cover all that great so pay extra attention to the edges. And I use a flash light to make sure i don't miss one.
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That may be my problem. I sprayed the panels after tacking. I'm thinking a light sanding with 600 dry will flatten it out.
The DX330 is PPGs cleaner. It seams to work pretty good.
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