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I took my car to an highly recommended alignment shop here in Vegas. They tried 4 times. They were able to align my 64 chevy II (originally a 6cyl now a blown 383stroker with a never sprayed 175shot of nos making 596rwhp on motor alone) but after driving it for a block, it goes out of alignment. They were stumped as to why it kept going out of alignment. Front end components were replaced to a certain degree (just bushings n tie rods and coil over shocks). I'm hoping a a front end kit would fix, but i'm not very knowledgeable in the subject. I saw the Alston kits as well as some from CPP, but I was hoping for a bolt on solution. Any leads???? help!!:(
 

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I am having a hard time visualizing your ride having a 1st Gen front end with your motor setup. When you say that the components you have listed were replaced I am ASSuming that those are on an after market front end. If so, have you considered lock-out cam plates? We ran with stock front end on a 63 and after doing a rebuild(bushings, tie rods) our local shop couldn't get the alignment correct. After banging my head for a while I figured out that they never adjusted the strut rod. When asking them about it, they naturally stated that they were familiar with older cars and could do the job. I took them photos of the chewed up strut rod bushings(from excessive play) and they said they had no idea how that happened and it must have been us. Lesson learned about that shop and also running the stock lower control arm with a strut rod. Those were all replaced wih CPP products and have no complaints.
 

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That's a little more engine than stock. Running that mill, if it gets put to the asphalt well at all in the rear, is going to bounce your front suspension quite a bit. No surprise, and even stock front ends aren't made to deal with that kind of use.

Time to upgrade if it's currently stock
 

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X2 on lock out cam plates. When using stock cam plates, it's a good idea to put a painted line on the cam and the lower control arm. If the alignment goes out then check to see if the painted line shows any movement. I've seen people dowel the cam plates or put a small weld to help maintain their position. Worn strut rod or other component will throw things out too but should be caught at alignment time.
 

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These cars are well known for coming out of alignment...the eccentrics slip...bad design...id take a look at church boys racing lower a arms...cured all my problems!! Will drive like a different car!!
 

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bump steer!!

I second Batman's post!! another piece of the puzzle is to tie the front and rear sub-frames together then call Chuck Sr. at CBR. I am waiting on uppers from CBR and then I am changing everything out!! I have a warmed over 327 and an Auto Gear M-22. my buddies suspension shop tied the sub-frame together that really helped, immensely!! I have had the car since 1986 my first car I am well versed in what an early Chevy II will not do!! it is no Caddy But you can make them a lot better!! I am no kid anymore I need a sense of security when I am exercising the car. another issue is powers at be here in the GREAT NORTHWEST choose not repair the roads here!! it is almost impossible to keep anything in alignment. THE ROMANS HAD BETTER ROADS!!
 

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Ok, I had the same issue with my '63. The fancy front ends are great and when I can talk my wife/ Pimp into it I am going to get one. Until then I am running a stock suspension. The first question is did you lower the car? If so you most likely are suffering from bump steer. There are kits to correct that. You will need some time on an alignment rack and a patient technician to fix it though because the amount of washers used to shim it is basically trial and error. Then I would suggest some neoprene bushings. They can be had for less than a hundred bucks. As the other guys have said make sure those little washers get back in the A arms or there will be hell to pay. Finally, here is the one that caused all my woes. When I went to put the neoprene bushings in the control rods (some call them torque rods) that connect to the front of the car I found that the holes were hogged out and egg shaped. With the bushings in place you couldn't see that. There was so much play that God himself might not have been able to align that car. I welded the holes and then bored them out round to the right size. After a few hundred bucks and a few afternoons in the garage I took it back for alignment an all is well in my Chevy II world. I will also add that I bought the kit to convert the eccentrics but so far the car is staying in alignment. If it starts to fade I will install those next. Let us know how you fair.

Jet
 

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I took my car to an highly recommended alignment shop here in Vegas. They tried 4 times. They were able to align my 64 chevy II (originally a 6cyl now a blown 383stroker with a never sprayed 175shot of nos making 596rwhp on motor alone) but after driving it for a block, it goes out of alignment. They were stumped as to why it kept going out of alignment. Front end components were replaced to a certain degree (just bushings n tie rods and coil over shocks). I'm hoping a a front end kit would fix, but i'm not very knowledgeable in the subject. I saw the Alston kits as well as some from CPP, but I was hoping for a bolt on solution. Any leads???? help!!:(
Some on here act like the factory front ends were made out of paper mache or something. There is no way in hell the front end should go out of alignment from just driving the car around the block, regardless of what engine is under the hood.

There is obviously something missing or not right in your assembly.

While the OEM front suspension leaves a lot to be desired and upgrading it to a more modern setup is definitely worth doing, it isn't nearly as wimpy as you would think from some of the comments on here. People forget that the aftermarket suspensions for these cars weren't readily available until the 90s and the Church Boys stuff is a lot more recent than that. If the factory suspension was as wimpy as some on here suggest, no one would have ever been able to drive around the block for the last 50 years. :rolleyes:
 

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I agree with 64PRONOVA. A properly set up stock Nova front end should work fine for a majority of applications. Hell, it seemed to do fine in the 66 L79.

Most complaints are due to guys stuffing a big engine in a stock Nova and driving the hell out of it without replacing ball joints and bushings and still running stock takes on a single bail master cylinder.

I had a similar situation with my 63 about 20 years ago. Alignment went all to hell, I think it was all Camber issues. Front end was rebuilt, good strut bushings and mounts and we added a bar across the top of the shock towers.

My alignment guy and I concluded a bunch of the spot welds around the lower a-arm mounting area must have broken loose allowing major movement while driving. Remember, a stock front end is just a collection of sheet metal put together with spot welds. These cars are now over 50 years old and the spot welds have been subject to rust and corrosion, pot holes, oversize tires, small fender benders and overall abuse.

In your case, I'd check the strut bushings and mounting holes as suggested, and lower a-arm bushings and washers. Also look at lower a-arms for cracks or twists. Not much else is going to move around on you. All movement should only be the lower a-arm, so isolate it.

Hopefully it's one of those items. If not, check for flex in the lower a-arm mount areas on the subframe. You may be able to fix it with gussets welded in or maybe new inner fender assemblies, but weld them up first.

Let us know what you find. I put my car away, and its still sitting next to the house waiting to be rebuilt, so I never knew for sure what happened.
 

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Lockout as mentioned, but even better Church Boys Racing(as mentioned above bolt ons will make it handle like it should. I don't have a 1st or 2nd gen, but if I did it would have the Church Boys add ons for sure.
 

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Lockout as mentioned, but even better Church Boys Racing(as mentioned above bolt ons will make it handle like it should. I don't have a 1st or 2nd gen, but if I did it would have the Church Boys add ons for sure.

I guess the easiest way to solve his problem would be to not even try to diagnose the real problem and just rush out and buy an entire new front suspension but I don't think that was the question the OP was asking.

That's sort of like someone asking why their 1966 327 has a misfire and the only response they get is to replace it with a new crate engine with electronic ignition and fuel injection.

Like most good mechanics he wants to know what's wrong with his current set-up. The Church Boys stuff is nice and the lockout is an inexpensive mod that will help over the longer term but there is something else wrong if he can't even drive it around the block once.
 

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My advice would be to take it to another alignment shop.

I don't care how "reputable" the one you have try to align the car 4 times now supposedly is.

The Chevy II front suspension isn't that complicated and if after doing it 4 times now they still can't see what the problem is, it's time for you to move on and try and find someone who knows what they are doing.
 

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bare bones front suspension

Like I stated before I have had my car since 1986 my first automobile!! it was plain wore out!! my granddad was a top end mechanic he was not real thrilled with the front suspension we pulled everything apart. my buddies dad was parts manager for the local Chevrolet dealership I purchased new upper control arms, lowers, strut rods etc. all new rubber the works!! had it aligned it was much better or should I say as good as it gets. every couple of years it still would be need to be aligned. I know how they drive marginal at best same with the brakes!! NOW IF YOU HAVE BONE STOCK NOVA with stock engine and stock wheels 13'' or 14'' you will no issues with stock front end if it is proper working order. So now add some horse power and big wheels and tires etc. you are pushing the limits of what it was designed to do!!!! I have the real deal L-79 350 horse 327 in my 63 and a Auto Gear M-22 it overwhelms the suspension on the car!! the car has had the sub-frames tied together professionally that helped. I just had the car aligned again it was 2'' out of caster due to poor road conditions!! I am all done with the stock front end!! I have lived with the sub standard long enough.
 

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Yeah but I bet you could drive it down the block once without it going out of alignment.

I used to thrash the hell out of my '64 on a daily basis and it would last at least a year.

I rebuilt the stock front suspension on my '65 SS in 2004 and it is still OK although I don't drive it a lot. I bet I could drive it around the block right now and it wouldn't go out of alignment.

lol
 

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Same issue

Ok so I have had the CBR upper and lower arms for a couple of years now along with the coilovers and installed the rack in the spring and of course had it lined up again. A couple of days ago I noticed both sides with a lot of negative camber and I know the eccentric bolts were as tight as they can be so I'm guessing even the good stuff can move. Lockout plates seem to be the only answer ?
 

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I have some very good experience with this situation from the OP....I see this all the time with experienced and inexperienced shops alike! When a tech puts the car on the alignment rack certain things must be done the correct way.

- NEVER lift the front end and let the suspension hang to instal wheel sensors!
• roll the car into the rack and leave it at its natural ride height.
• slip plates will NOT allow your nova to settle properly into its ride height
-If the front has been lifted by the tech you will need to roll the car back about 10-15 feet and then forward again to allow the suspension to accurately settle into its natural ride height.

If the above procedure is not followed you will experience the issues described in the first post.....roll off the lift and drive it out of the building and your alignment is now out of spec!!! It will happen every single time gauranteed.

Provided the suspension has been refurbished properly as stated the proper alignment procedure will save everyone a lot of time and frustration.
 

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Ok so I have had the CBR upper and lower arms for a couple of years now along with the coilovers and installed the rack in the spring and of course had it lined up again. A couple of days ago I noticed both sides with a lot of negative camber and I know the eccentric bolts were as tight as they can be so I'm guessing even the good stuff can move. Lockout plates seem to be the only answer ?
Door, your situation could be the result of a couple of things.

1. How old are your ball joints? I began to notice a lack of quality in the Moog USA made joints and when I started asking questions I found that they were moving manufacturing overseas....your ball joints could be worn and in need of replacement. I would suggest the USA Napa chassis joints if they are available.

When I noticed this happening I then redesigned my lower arms to use the USA made Howe racing joints that are complete adjustable and rebuildable. These are much stronger and very precise. These are what we call the Phase II arms.

2. If your ball joints are in superb condition then I have to ask...when did you view and notice the Negative cambe, after backing up or driving forward?

If when you back up it is noticed that you have excessive Neg. Camber the cause is not the parts or a slipped alignment, rather it is that you have too much Toe IN set up in the alignment.

Simple little adjustments can make a world of difference both good and bad.
 

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And here is the last topic

Why do the eccentrics slip on some cars and not the others?

In factory form the lower A-arm pocket is filled with a rubber bushing. You adjust the alignment and tighten the bolts up. The pocket would squish together if nothing was in the middle. Since a rubber bushing is the support as it wears and deteriorates the pocket relaxes due to the force of the eccentric bolts. Once it relaxes the eccentrics do not have the same grip as they once did and begin to slip losing your alignment. That is where the lock out plates became the answer at that time.

The Church Boys Racing lower arms with eccentrics do not lose or slip the alignment because we fill the lower arm pocket with a solid spacer that does not wear or deteriorate. We also provided true USA made Moog eccentrics with the arms. Once tight they remain tight and do NOT slip.

You ask why do we need them with the CPP arms because they use a poly urethane bushing??? For those who have been around a while you know that they make their bolts on their own....the issue was many people who struggled with alignments would strip the CPP bolts. The reason this happened was because of the friction on the eccentrics washers. So they CPP designed the washers with what would resemble a smaller washer on the inside up against the control arm pocket so that there was less friction while making your adjustment. Problem with that was it now did not have much clamping or holding power to keep the alignment. This also was a situation when you needed lock outs.

The New Phase II Church Boys Racing lower arms have also been up graded to eliminate the eccentrics as well. Why do you ask? Because if the ball joints were being made over seas how long before the bolts were too. So I rendesigned them to be adjusted with a link adjuster using a right and left handed adjuster and jam nuts. I simply did away with the bolts before the quality began to suffer. We never had an issue with them rather I wanted to know where my parts were from and the quality that they were made with and all of our parts come with USA made hardware!
 
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