[Rusty63]

I guess I could see that had I not spent many hours racing in circle track and road race formula cars. My last wreck wearing a five point harness allowed me to hit my head on the steering wheel even though at rest it was almost twenty inches away. That was leaning forward to check for closness. Not a single section of tubing was not compromised. Roll bars should always be protected with high energy foam but this design also includes the wearing of a helmet. I have no use for a street car with a roll cage. If you've ever had your bell rung you would get it......

what was your estimated speed during these wrecks?

-Rusty

 

[Rusty63]

SNS veterans posting above know that there's inherent flex to these cars. They were cheap and built to early 1960's build standards, and those standards didn't address this well enough for today. Crash test standards weren't in place, manufacturers didn't have to answer to much litigation in this regard, but we all know how that changed before the decade was out.

What to do? There's no free lunch. Guys love these cars because a small block is a drop in, but these bodies end up cracking, flexing, breaking and handling poorly when there's a lot of power under the hood and traction upgrades are made to go faster in a straight line. Addressing the problems adds weight. Sub frame connectors are a start. A cage integrated with the front and rear subframes is another good step, but probably not enough. There's a huge call for body 'drop-on' subframes that will be able to hold all of the suspension and driveline, but now you're adding significant weight and there's no test data that that added frame or roll cage will make the cars significantly safer to occupants in a collision, though they should. Any of these upgrades should be accompanied by safer seating, seat to body attachment, restraints and other improvements as well if that's the goal of the modification.

Guys upgrading Novas are asking a lot out of early '60's practice of the art car building design, especially from a model designed to be light and cheap with no waste. GM wasn't trying to compete in today's market or even today's hobbyist market with this car.

you nailed it. and it's a good conversation. many of us are trying to have our cake and eat it, too. and what we might be describing in so many words is...a late-model car--just without the great looks we are all so interested in. snagging a late model is the free lunch, we'd just have to choose to accept the looks of more current offerings (which, admittedly is a tough sell). but the safety upgrades to modern vehicles in legal in N.A. over the past 20 years are impressive and tough to ignore.

but you are clearly making me realize, finagling a way to have it all in a '63 is just not possible. and like you said, most updates we perform are not crash tested.

i never even considered safety when purchasing my '63. now with wife, kids, etc...things have changed, and since the kids aren't babies anymore we have time to breathe/think. and working the "it'll never happen to me" angle is a bit foolhardy, as my friend dying on his motorcycle few years ago reminded me.

-Rusty

 

[xxdabroxx]

I get that tubing can be dangerous but is a good seat/ seatbelt/ well placed roll bar/ cage any more dangerous than a factory lap belt, bench seat, and a "b" pillar/ steering wheel?

I personally think not. From the factory I could slide my jeep seat to the rear and lay back at a reasonable angle and have my head right next to/ under the roll bar that has very thin padding. Only additional safety it has is a steering wheel mounted air bag. But that doesn't keep you off the roll bar.

 

[drm101]

With our '63, I always put the floor jack (with a piece of 2x4) on the subframe just behind the cowl/front wheel to jack the car up, then put jack stands under the sway bar brackets. With the car on the floor jack, the engine weight pulls the doors out of line. Once I drop it onto the jackstands, they line back up. I also have a TCI 4 link that includes bolt in frame connectors. The car did get stiffer after I welded up various areas of the cowl when I had the whole car apart.
I lived up until last year accident free, but at 55 I had my first accident in our '63. Even though it was not my fault, I still think as I get older that my reflexes are not what they used to be. Fortunately no one was hurt but the car was badly damaged. A year and $21K later, I have the car back. The pics are on my vehicle profile. No two ways around it, older vehicles are not nearly as safe as newer ones. Check out the IIHS crash test comparing an old Impala to a new one. My brother-in-law ran the test. It's a good read.

 

[JRouche]

My ride is a lil odd, well cause I built it. Its a 62 Nova (400 series).

Art Morrison rear frame that I fully welded to the floor pan and my removeable front clip, the original is also fully welded to the firewall and inner fender panels.

It is basically a flat pan that does not twist. And with that I put my I/C where I wanted it. The giant three piece roll bars helped with that as does my home grown watts link.

Its not a heavy HP car, she is a corner carver. JR

Yeah? It seems like many of you folks are talking about race cars and roll bars.

Not me Son, I cant afford to race.

My car is an under powered canyon car with poor steering.

Double adjustable shocks all four. JR

 

[JRouche]

Yeah? It seems like many of you folks are talking about race cars and roll bars.

Not me Son, I cant afford to race.

My car is an under powered canyon car with poor steering.

Double adjustable shocks all four. JR

Edit: Some of these right hand drivers came out two years ago, a bunch of them. Really nice cars. They are nice and pull up to my 62 and think its a big fat heavy pig. Problem is I scaled my car out and it was 17 hundred pounds. I knew it was light, I built ever single piece, including the paint.

They were surprised. Very nice right hand drives cars. Both of them sports cars, track cars IMO. , I just drove around them always on the outside turn. . That is what this car does. JR

 

[abstruse1]

Perhaps this is redundant to what has been written above.

Here's my quick sense of the hierarchy of levels of accident protection for a occasional driving car:

1. Factory seat, no seatbelt
2. Above with lap belt
3. Aftermarket seat with headrest and harness openings
4. Above with seat restraint to prevent seat from breaking backwards
5. Above with 3-point seatbelt fastened to the nominal B pillar, reinforced downward for a few inches
6. Above but with harness bar, attached to floor with braces to rear bulkhead or floor
7. Single loop roll bar with 3-point harness attachment, located a few inches behind the head and covered with absorbing foam
8. Helmet with above
9. and so on.

If this is approximately correct, and if the increments of protection between the 4th or 5th level and the 6th or -- especially -- the 7th, then it seems that one should go as far down on the list until reaching what he assumes to be a sweet spot, all things considered.

Currently, I'm at level 5 (except I omitted step 4) and am contemplating going to 6 or 7.

Comments? Thanx.

 

[JRouche]

Perhaps this is redundant to what has been written above.

Here's my quick sense of the hierarchy of levels of accident protection for a occasional driving car:

1. Factory seat, no seatbelt
2. Above with lap belt
3. Aftermarket seat with headrest and harness openings
4. Above with seat restraint to prevent seat from breaking backwards
5. Above with 3-point seatbelt fastened to the nominal B pillar, reinforced downward for a few inches
6. Above but with harness bar, attached to floor with braces to rear bulkhead or floor
7. Single loop roll bar with 3-point harness attachment, located a few inches behind the head and covered with absorbing foam
8. Helmet with above
9. and so on.

If this is approximately correct, and if the increments of protection between the 4th or 5th level and the 6th or -- especially -- the 7th, then it seems that one should go as far down on the list until reaching what he assumes to be a sweet spot, all things considered.

Currently, I'm at level 5 (except I omitted step 4) and am contemplating going to 6 or 7.

Comments? Thanx.

Yeah well? I have all those things, newspaper in my shoes for padding.

I think I cant help but run my Nova a lil bit hot some times. And then set her up in the air and do a chassis check... Make sure my chit is buttoned up. JR