[LT1 CT]

I am thinking about using the 3M body panel bonding adhesive. I have several friends that use this product daily in their body shops and say this is the only way to go. I will be install both left and right full quarters on my '66 hard top and think I will go with the 3M product. Any thoughts??

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/...L4Zgv/command_AbcPageHandler/theme_us_aad_3_0

 

[Chilly]

Panel adhesive works really good. I actually work for a company that sells panel adhesive to the auto body market. Make sure you look into which one will suit you the best. There are epoxy or urethane based adhesives, ones with glass beads or without. Lots of different options out there. If you would like PM me and we can talk more. I also have a CD that shows you how to do step by step repair using our product.

Chris

 

[69NovaSS]

here is another thread on this topic

http://stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28474&highlight=panel+bonding+adhesive

 

[Nwayne]

Here's a link where a guy was doing the same thing on his old buick. http://buickperformance.com/qtr.htm

I started researching this as well. Since I've got to replace the L/H quarter on my 64. Plus I can't weld, and can't seem to find any good body shops out here in Vegas. Or at least one's that will work on classics. Most only want to do collision............ .
I'm interested in hearing how it turns out.
Good luck

 

[1969NovaSS]

8115 3M Body panel adhesive.

I used this stuff almost every other week any time I put on a quarter, door skin, or even a roof at work. The stuff does work great and the 3m 8115 is one of the better products. 2 best glues I have used are 3m and Lord
Fusor. Both work extremely well. Nice thing about 3m's though is that it is black. I am using this on my 69 Quarters as well as resistance welding. The glue ads strength as well as works well as seam sealer between the 2 mated welded parts.

 

[Nwayne]

I used this stuff almost every other week any time I put on a quarter, door skin, or even a roof at work. The stuff does work great and the 3m 8115 is one of the better products. 2 best glues I have used are 3m and Lord
Fusor. Both work extremely well. Nice thing about 3m's though is that it is black. I am using this on my 69 Quarters as well as resistance welding. The glue ads strength as well as works well as seam sealer between the 2 mated welded parts.

So you can weld thru the 3m adhesive? Do you need the expensive applicator gun?
How would you go about putting a full quarter on? Do need to flange the area you are bonding to? What about the door jamb area?
Also, what is the product number for the Lord Fusor adhesive?

 

[1969NovaSS]

You can plug weld through it after the panel has dried and you clean the plug welds out to get metal through the Plug hole. Chrysler actually recommends this process for the Lower Frame rails on there Jeep Liberty. A resistance welder doesn't need a plug hole as it welds through resistance on clean bare metal on each side. It just clamps down with some force and delivers a nice voltage to Arc the 2 pieces of metal through the glue. I have glued 90 percent of a quarter on before on some cars but never the sail panel. I always have welded there. The door jamb is glued the same way as the rest of the quarter. The manufacture of 3m says you can glue the sail by simply using the flange/overlap method and sizing it 1 inch for contact surface. I personally have never done this. The Lord Fusor product number is 108B/109B
Both numbers are the same, Just different size containers. The guns are expensive but the smaller glue set up use a one time applicator built in.

http://www.lord.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1190#108B109BT30

 

[TechNova]

You can plug weld through it after the panel has dried and you clean the plug welds out to get metal through the Plug hole. Chrysler actually recommends this process for the Lower Frame rails on there Jeep Liberty. A resistance welder doesn't need a plug hole as it welds through resistance on clean bare metal on each side. It just clamps down with some force and delivers a nice voltage to Arc the 2 pieces of metal through the glue. I have glued 90 percent of a quarter on before on some cars but never the sail panel. I always have welded there. The door jamb is glued the same way as the rest of the quarter. The manufacture of 3m says you can glue the sail by simply using the flange/overlap method and sizing it 1 inch for contact surface. I personally have never done this. The Lord Fusor product number is 108B/109B
Both numbers are the same, Just different size containers. The guns are expensive but the smaller glue set up use a one time applicator built in.

http://www.lord.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1190#108B109BT30

You do have to weld the vertical portion at the rear of the car, the 8115 instructions will show that. Unless you have the proper equipment for weld bonding (resistance spot welding thru the wet adhesive) I don't recommend it. Lesser machines just burn the adhesive out. Make some samples with same thickness materials as the car, resistance weld thru the adhesive and peel them apart in a vise while the adhesive is wet. If a chunk of metal does not tear out of one of the pieces the weld is not strong. There is a minimum size on the hole torn out but I don't remember it.
MIG welding near the adhesive burns it away giving a corrosion issue. You are better off using weld thru primer on the areas to be MIG'ed. I haven't seen the Liberty TSB, maybe they're doing something different,the heat from the MIG, especially to get a good strucural plug weld, is going to burn alot of adhesive. Do you have a way to post the TSB?

 

[LeftCoast Carl]

the vertical welding is a misnomer.it is in place to exonerate the insurance companies in the collision repair industry.if there is some welding they can claim it is welded and bonded.i own a collision shop and we have proven that the panel bond is much tougher ,but can be too rigid and may prevent a panel from collapsing to absorb energy in a collision.overall though, it's a better repair and less intrusive than welding when done properly.i have bonded major panel on my 63 rags and my 63 impala.thx,cj

 

[TechNova]

I'm impressed that you have done extensive crash testing to prove 3M and Fusor wrong on their procedures. I guess I learn a better method every day.

 

[evldoer]

Use the 3M stuff with the glass beads, works excellent. But I would suggest welding the front of the quarter as well as the rear, especially if you plan on getting on it alot. I use it to bond the wheel well area, and the lower part of the quarter in front of and behind the wheel.

 

[LeftCoast Carl]

hi technova,
i never said we've done extensive crash testing(what am i...some kinda dummy?!lol).only what has been experienced by me and relayed by reps from fusor,3m and norton.welding is not a superior repair in all cases.ever weld a rust patch , only to see it rust just outside of your perfect welded repair?you've weaken the metal with the heat from your weld and made it less malleable at the weld.thx,cj

 

[DAVES7DNOVA]

I like 3M 8115 better than Lord Fusor. 8115 takes longer to dry. That means you have a little longer time to set the panel in place. This may come in handy on a really hot day where the glue sets up faster.

 

[LT1 CT]

Thanks for the info. guys.

 

[Coprod]

Wow, I had no idea the panel adhesives were so strong...cool...Would this have worked on a floor or should it still be welded.....I used weld thru primer and plug welded the entire floor about 1" apart(working side to side and front to back so it would not warp).....but I can see where an adhesive would be nice so you don't mess up a new panel, from the welding/heat etc....also around weaker old metal with pitting....tends to pop on you or burn away......thanks for the info...

Richard

 

[LeftCoast Carl]

hey coprod,
panel bonding will work on almost any metal to metal surface,but....it's only as strong as your mating surfaces.any corrosion,sealer,primer,paint e-coat(that black or pale green coating on new panels),etc has to be removed.there can be NO CONTAMINANT!.grinding with 36-40 grit discs will give the adhesive something to bite into.the one downfall is you must secure the part in place while it cures.this is usually done with several self-tapping screws which means going over the repair again to plug these holes later.the good news is you gain a very strong repair which is also "seam sealed" at the same time.picture the wheel arch area of your car.weld it and it may leak between the wheelhouse and the 1/4 outer skin.bond it and it won't leak ever.i would not use it on a structural repair though.don't glue in your frame sections,suspension mounts,etc..sorry for the long rant.thx,cj

 

[Rich]

My big concern is hobbiest versus professional. The advocates of panel bonding have "been to school" and know how these products work. Is panel bonding something that can be done by the average joe without ill effects? Does it really save any time or money? Will the finished product have read through in a few years? Can a guy that cannot weld, or doesn't have the equipment, install a panel without welding anything and have a nice finished product?

I've been doing body work for 40 years and I've seen every method of panel replacement screwed up in one way or another, be it brazing, tig, mig, or glue. In my opinion there is no magic elixer that will let a novice turn out a good finished product without education and experience. Lets keep in mind who is asking the questions, more than who is answering them.

Rich

 

[TechNova]

My big concern is hobbiest versus professional. The advocates of panel bonding have "been to school" and know how these products work. Is panel bonding something that can be done by the average joe without ill effects? Does it really save any time or money? Will the finished product have read through in a few years? Can a guy that cannot weld, or doesn't have the equipment, install a panel without welding anything and have a nice finished product?

I've been doing body work for 40 years and I've seen every method of panel replacement screwed up in one way or another, be it brazing, tig, mig, or glue. In my opinion there is no magic elixer that will let a novice turn out a good finished product without education and experience. Lets keep in mind who is asking the questions, more than who is answering them.

Rich

Use the adhesive in pinch weld areas where you can clamp it with vise grips or C clamps. If you have to put in screws or rivets then you are likely doing a lap or butt-with-backer joint out in the open. This joint in the open will map later on. I cannot recall using adhesive on any joints that I need to finish out with body filler. I have seen too many that show the repair later on. Even the new Kevlar reinforced filler will map (haven't seen it but had 3-4 people try it and not like it)
On a 1/4 I'll do the wheel arch, 1/4 to drop down joint, rear window pinchweld
and door opening pinchweld. On a 3rd gen I weld the bottom of the 1/4 behind the door since it's hard to glue & clamp. I also weld the sail panel and rear panel areas.
I would not use the adhesive for a patch panel. I have seen too many map later on.
So, Yes, a novice can use it if the directions are followed.
My "been to school" was 12 years ago when I tried the stuff on my own at home by reading the directions. I still have the car and it looks perfect in the adhesive areas.
It will not replace welding in some areas.
It saves time vs. Mig plug welds, but actually costs a little more.
The big advantage for a DIY is the more complete sealing in the rust prone areas.
If you do have a screwup, you can heat the adhesive and get it back apart.

 

[Coprod]

I really enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and experiences...I took Auto Paint and Body in High School and then got my AAS Degree in Auto Paint and Body, etc. at a local College. But that was a long time ago (20 yrs).....I started back a few years ago doing my own projects and helping friends...But I admit I'm not up on all the new and different techniques.....

I always enjoy learning new things or new to me....

Thanks again

Richard