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That inventor should have tried offering that idea up to aftermarket head manufacturers who are constantly looking for ways to improve production hardware rather than the automotive manufacturers who are obviously happy with the status quo.

Going to the top of the empires first may have been a mistake. Interesting read. I'd love to see if this works on our dated iron......or aluminum. :yes:
 

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my uncle showed me something simular when i was around 13/14 years old and we did this type mod on my minibike engine head, he put a groove from the spark plug hole toward the piston for better flame travel we also polished the valves and ports and bored it .010 over but it siezed and broke the rod.
 

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Real Swirl

This is an ongoing subject.Go to Larry Widmers web site and snoop around:bored:
www.theoldone.com

Larry is the guy that's credited with Bill Elliots speed in the mid 80's that led to the ultra high compression and vortec style combustion chambers:yes:

Very bright guy.
 

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Weird Science for Cylinder Heads

Anybody else heard of this weird mod for cylinder heads? I first found info on the web about this a few years ago but kind of just dismissed it at the time. (I've brought more than my fair share of snake oil over the years.) Now I'm seeing that a lot of people have taken a chance on it. If it really will decrease the likelihood of detonation (allowing for higher compression and more initial timing), I'd be interested in taking advantage of this new idea. To me, the "V" cut seems like it would do a better job of aided in adding swirl for better fuel atomization.

QUOTE: "Basically a groove cut into the squish area of the cylinder head creates a huge difference in combustion characteristics of the engine."






http://somender-singh.com/

http://pesn.com/2005/10/13/9600187_Design_to_Improve_Turbulence_in_Combustion_Chambers/

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/more-singh-s-grooves-108566.html

http://palalabs.com/afrotech/index.php?topic=6594.0
 

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That's a Squish Groove. Not really new but there are pros and cons to doing this. I worked with a cylinder head engine who told me that it's possible to take swirl, squish and tumble too far and cause more problems than you solve.

As with any trick, it's worthwhile to do scientific back to back testing to verify it actually works for you.
 

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Grooovy..... I've read those groove articles numerous times on various forums and they do spark a lot of interest. I've always heard positive results but have never tried them personally. The strange thing is I've never seen any real world testing from back to back results on a dyno or dragstrip with the grooves being the only modification-it seems there's always porting or an increase in compression that gets done at the same time. Does anyone have any links to some testing results where only the grooves were done?
 

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I think you hit on the problem with this mod. I haven't seen any proof or scientific back to back testing.
 

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I think you hit on the problem with this mod. I haven't seen any proof or scientific back to back testing.
That's what I have been waiting on too. An endorsement from a reputable engine builder would definitely be a selling point but I have yet to see that.

Everything I have read says this mod by it's self provided zero improvement in performance. It's (supposed) purpose is to make the engine less susceptible to detonation. This means more compression and/or more total timing are an option. It would be awesome if it works but I'm not ready to be a guinea pig to find out.
 

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I think you hit on the problem with this mod. I haven't seen any proof or scientific back to back testing.
That's what I have been waiting on too. An endorsement from a reputable engine builder would definitely be a selling point but I have yet to see that.

Everything I have read says this mod by it's self provided zero improvement in performance. It's (supposed) purpose is to make the engine less susceptible to detonation. This means more compression and/or more total timing are an option. It would be awesome if it works but I'm not ready to be a guinea pig to find out.
x3!!:yes:
Curious though....With as much R&D that's going on these days by some really smart individuals (some of which frequent some forums) but we haven't seen the idea actually used in aftermarket production heads.:no:

There was a piston manufacturer that tried it years ago but it never really caught on.:no:
 

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Believe me the OEM's have the best engineers and computer modeling software and if this worked they'd be doing it. The reason why is is what the engineer told me. You can over turbulent the mixture and that causes more problems then it solves. That channel shoots a narrow jet which won't promote homogeneous mixing. The heart shaped vortec chamber is an example of a well designed swirl/squish chamber that works.
 

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x3!!:yes:
Curious though....With as much R&D that's going on these days by some really smart individuals (some of which frequent some forums) but we haven't seen the idea actually used in aftermarket production heads.:no:

There was a piston manufacturer that tried it years ago but it never really caught on.:no:
Back in the early eighties, one of the car magazines showed an 'insider peak' at an experimental combustion chamber mod for aluminum heads. It basically looked like they drew off squares in the combustion chamber and used a center drill to add "dimples". It seemed like a weird idea at the time.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd270/mpgchris/DSC02136.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mpgresearch.com/qwworu482ngfn/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D48%26t%3D2276&usg=__F9yp7H_CyNKIyDunKIFjaSeU9Es=&h=300&w=400&sz=67&hl=en&start=34&um=1&tbnid=jd50rBUpIbTM7M:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddimpled%2Bcombustion%2Bchamber%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4RNTM_enUS337US338%26sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1

Did a little more research on this. The method was called center-popping". AFR actually experimented with it. They called it a "Hurricane Chamber".
http://books.google.com/books?id=mm8oM7_OuDEC&pg=PA116&lpg=PA116&dq=center-popping+combustion+chamber&source=bl&ots=nnn3qNv9vI&sig=TVtNRBas12Nm1WPR_SNx2sFDYcA&hl=en&ei=Y8-tSv7KBI6llAew4ZjqBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=center-popping%20combustion%20chamber&f=false
 

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This has been a patch fix for fuel distribution problems identified by wet flow testing and studying fuel markings on combustion chambers and pistons. It doesn't always work. If you read closely, in some cases the engine loses 10 hp or so. I'd rather have a better designed chamber than try to crutch a poor one.
 
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