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Discussion Starter #1
I wired my battery into the trunk with 1/0 cable. I used both positive and negative from the trunk to the engine bay. The positive goes to the starter and the negative goes to the engine block (plus more grounds distributed)

I initially bought a 250 amp ANL fuse and while starting the car, the fuse popped. The car has no problems and I just think that the starter sucked up and exceeded the 250 amps.

So I researched a bit and see that starters does take some serious amperage to start a car. I have a 454 V8 and would like to know how many amp draw is typical for a starter to be able to get a fuse just about the same as the max the starter can draw to protect my wire from accidental shorts.

What should I get?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Starters are not fused, battery cable runs directly to the solenoid. Everything beyond that point is fused.
Yes normally that is the scenario but was thinking about protecting the wire that is routed the length of the car.

I'm starting to think that I should run it direct.

And now with your comment (thank you by the way) I think I should route the 1/0 positive direct to the battery and for everything else, run seperate fused wires.
 

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If you do not want the entire length of the positive 1/0 cable hot all the time a solenoid at the battery can be installed to energize the cable only during starting. Another smaller feed would need to run forward to power everything else. It is best to use fusible links rather than actual fuses on the two main circuits. One to the inside of the car and the other to the alternator.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If you do not want the entire length of the positive 1/0 cable hot all the time a solenoid at the battery can be installed to energize the cable only during starting. Another smaller feed would need to run forward to power everything else. It is best to use fusible links rather than actual fuses on the two main circuits. One to the inside of the car and the other to the alternator.
My alternator has a fusible link so I'm good there. But I do need power all the time because of my hood latch setup. The way the car is wired from the factory is that the stock distribution block is attached together with the starter, battery and the alt through the wiring.

I have the latch setup hooked to that junction block. So to make it work with the solenoid cutoff I would have to route the junction block completely seperate which would mean separate the factory wiring and rewiring it all. Unfortunately something that is not easy now with the way my wiring is setup (completely hidden).

Thats why I wanted to put in a safety on the main power wire. Its just precaution and probably not needed as you have stated, factory method has no fuse from battery to starter.
From starter to alt and junction block there is a fusible link.
 

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I have a 300A fuse on my starter cable and have yet to blow it after 10+ years.

There may be plenty of variables in play in your situation.

The starter could be drawing more current than another similiar one. One starter from a company might draw less, more, or the same as another one built right before it or after it. Look at resistors. There are 5% tolerance ones and also 10% tolerance ones. If you had a few in series then the percentages can add up.

You could have had a 250A fuse that was defective or one that was improperly rated. I have to think that some of the cheap fuses or any other parts out there can have very poor tolerances or ratings on them. Look deep into some of the ratings of the Buss brand fuses and you will see that a 250A fuse might pass 500A of current for a short time but another one might only pass 500A for an even less amount of time. I look at some of these ratings like I look at car amplifier specs. One company might rate an amplifier as putting out 1,000 watts but another might rate it at 200 watts.

Another problem you may have is poor connections. All connections will have voltage drop through them due to resistance. On my car I have 99% of them being soldered and even though I did this I know I still have some voltage drops. Crimped on terminations can be just fine but they can also be a problem just like soldered connections can be fine or also have problems. You just have to do each one properly and know what kind of enviroment they will be in.

Another problem I've seen is people having a stock style starter on a large displacement high compression motor. Some of them crank over just fine while others struggle. Some have been fixed by replacing the starter with a larger one or in some cases I've seen the ignition system switched on after the engine has been spinning a while and not have it like a normal setup to where when the engine is first being cranked the ignition system is firing and trying to push the piston down while it's in it's up stroke.

Yes, normally the starter cable is not fused but normally the battery is under the hood as well as the starter. The battery cable also in this situation also has a very small chance of being shorted due to it's short length. There are people out there that refuse to fuse but to me I would rather properly protect any live circuit (switched or unswitched). Even with a solenoid and no fuse it's possible that if there was a bad short the solenoid or relay contacts could weld themselves together and then keep the current flowing even though the solenoid or relay is shut off.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have a 300A fuse on my starter cable and have yet to blow it after 10+ years.

There may be plenty of variables in play in your situation.

The starter could be drawing more current than another similiar one. One starter from a company might draw less, more, or the same as another one built right before it or after it. Look at resistors. There are 5% tolerance ones and also 10% tolerance ones. If you had a few in series then the percentages can add up.

You could have had a 250A fuse that was defective or one that was improperly rated. I have to think that some of the cheap fuses or any other parts out there can have very poor tolerances or ratings on them. Look deep into some of the ratings of the Buss brand fuses and you will see that a 250A fuse might pass 500A of current for a short time but another one might only pass 500A for an even less amount of time. I look at some of these ratings like I look at car amplifier specs. One company might rate an amplifier as putting out 1,000 watts but another might rate it at 200 watts.

Another problem you may have is poor connections. All connections will have voltage drop through them due to resistance. On my car I have 99% of them being soldered and even though I did this I know I still have some voltage drops. Crimped on terminations can be just fine but they can also be a problem just like soldered connections can be fine or also have problems. You just have to do each one properly and know what kind of enviroment they will be in.

Another problem I've seen is people having a stock style starter on a large displacement high compression motor. Some of them crank over just fine while others struggle. Some have been fixed by replacing the starter with a larger one or in some cases I've seen the ignition system switched on after the engine has been spinning a while and not have it like a normal setup to where when the engine is first being cranked the ignition system is firing and trying to push the piston down while it's in it's up stroke.

Yes, normally the starter cable is not fused but normally the battery is under the hood as well as the starter. The battery cable also in this situation also has a very small chance of being shorted due to it's short length. There are people out there that refuse to fuse but to me I would rather properly protect any live circuit (switched or unswitched). Even with a solenoid and no fuse it's possible that if there was a bad short the solenoid or relay contacts could weld themselves together and then keep the current flowing even though the solenoid or relay is shut off.

Jim
When I was researching moving my battery in the trunk, I found all your posts to be super informative and followed info you have stated in the past.
Its good to know you saw my post and answered. I do agree, it could be the fuse and I did see that you have a 300 amp on your setup. I put an order in for Gold plated ANL and hope to get the car started with that.

I also found your posts on the types of wires and so I did get pure copper and not the mixed type. All my connections are both crimped and soldered plus have shrink tape that seals the wires with a glue to protect from moisture. What I do is fill the end fitting with solder half way than insert the wire while keeping it hot. Then crimp and make sure the dimple is centered.

Do you recommend a type of ANL fuse to get? My 250amp fuse came free with my ANL fuse setup so i imagine its real cheap.
 

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When I was researching moving my battery in the trunk, I found all your posts to be super informative and followed info you have stated in the past.
Its good to know you saw my post and answered. I do agree, it could be the fuse and I did see that you have a 300 amp on your setup. I put an order in for Gold plated ANL and hope to get the car started with that.

I also found your posts on the types of wires and so I did get pure copper and not the mixed type. All my connections are both crimped and soldered plus have shrink tape that seals the wires with a glue to protect from moisture. What I do is fill the end fitting with solder half way than insert the wire while keeping it hot. Then crimp and make sure the dimple is centered.

Do you recommend a type of ANL fuse to get? My 250 amp fuse came free with my ANL fuse setup so i imagine its real cheap.
I get my ANL fuses from Aamp of America (a supplier of mine). I do not know who makes them but they also market them under the Stinger Brand. I've been using parts from them for probably 15 if not 20 years and I would think a local stereo shop probably orders supplies from Aamp and they could get you what you need. I think I pay maybe 4-8 bucks for one and they retail for maybe 15 ?.

On my setup I have extra fuses for that just in case need and while my wiring does not support an easy bypass to jumper around a fuse I have in the past left a cable a tad longer to be able to reach the other threaded post to then allow the fuse to be bypassed.

Off memory I think the 1/0 cable I have has a rating up to 300A for it's length but you never want to put in a fuse on a wire that is larger than what the wire can handle. I've seen too many times too large of a fuse put onto too small of a wire.

Don't get too hung up on going with gold as I've found out the plating sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.


Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just out of curiosity if others ever read this is what brand was it, did you get a spare and what did it run cost wise ?.

Jim
As always thanks Custom Jim for your help. Your advice has always been great.

The brand is a no special name brand. I bought a 2 pack (Gold plated)from the same company I bought the ANL fuse holder. (before you posted your info on the Stinger brand)

Only costed me $4.50 shipped for both. Heres a picture with part number sticker. The seller specifically called out that these are just as good as the name brand and that they never failed him.
And I quote
WHY PAY BIG PRICE FOR A BIG NAME.

I HAVE BEEN USING THESE FOR YEARS IN MY SHOP

PROVEN
 

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I know this is an old thread, but I have to ask how did 300amp hold up? I have a 200amp and when I swapped to optima red-top It blew. Battery in trunk as well. I bought a 10-pack of 300amp for 8bucks and 10-pack of 500amp for 6bucks..

Don't think I'll need 500 at all though, and would a 500amp even blow in a dead short? (example positive somehow gets cut in half, how long will if spark before blowing, and same question for 300)
 

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I know this is an old thread, but I have to ask how did 300amp hold up? I have a 200amp and when I swapped to optima red-top It blew. Battery in trunk as well. I bought a 10-pack of 300amp for 8 bucks and 10-pack of 500amp for 6 bucks..

Don't think I'll need 500 at all though, and would a 500amp even blow in a dead short? (example positive somehow gets cut in half, how long will if spark before blowing, and same question for 300)
You will have to wait until Tarantula replies as to how his has held up but even with his other reply, he had a 250A at one time and it blew and you having a 200A blowing would make sense. My 73, with it's 300A fuse on my 1/0 copper wire is still holding up fine (although the car has been down for about a year now).

While you can put any fuse on any size wire, the fuse MUST be sized for the wire. If a 500A fuse was installed on a wire that was designed to carry 300A, then anything over 300A of current would be damaging the wire and/or it's insulation.

If you do some research you will find fuses will have different characteristics. A particular designed 30A fuse should pass 30A for days, weeks,or years but when the fuse is passing 35A, it may only do this for a day, a week, or a year (basically a shorter time frame). This same fuse if it were to pass 100A might only do this for 2 seconds before it opens or blows. If it were to pass 200A, it might only do this for a fraction of a second. These are just numbers out of my head but all fuses have different design specifications.

The 300A fuses (and other sized ANL fuses I have bought) I've never really gotten any documentation as to their specifications but I would think if a fuse was bought from a reputable company that they should be able to supply specifications for them. The ones I have bought were from a supplier and they do say, Made in China, and believe me I wonder how well they really are. I do remember reading about a problem years ago with fuses I think that were from Harbor Freight and a particular size ATC fuse like a 30A would take a really long time before it blew with 60A or 100A passing through it.

Just to add to things about fusing to the size of the wire. Be aware that there is now CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) wire out there and a 1/0 CCA wire handles LESS current than a 1/0 copper wire. CCA to me is a cheaper wire being that I'm so used to using copper wire BUT CCA can be used instead of copper wire but the CCA wire MUST be a larger gauge than what would have been run with copper wire. Again, that's how that wire is designed.

Jim
 

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Is there a single automobile manufacturer that fuses the battery cable?
None that I know of, it is a circuit that really doesn't need protecting. With the battery in the trunk the main line to the starter can be set up to be dead with the ignition off for added protection. There are a few manufacturers that have the battery in locations other than under the hood. Buick, Volkswagen, Dodge, Mazda are a few I know of.
 

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Add BMW, Volvo, Saturn and Chevrolet to your list. Every one of these cars runs the battery cable direct to a binding post in the engine compartment. I got me a 20' battery cable from a Saturn recently from Pick-n-Pull for $6.
 
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