'65 Nova 4 speed M20 tranny questions

3589 Views 11 Replies 6 Participants Last post by riverboatman, Aug 30, 2012

riverboatman

Discussion Starter · Aug 29, 2012 (Edited)

I have decided I want to take out the auto tranny in my '65 nova and install an M20. The car is completely stripped down and I feel now is the time to make all the necessary mods for a clutch. I have everything (I think) accumulated for the conversion but no tranny levers. The used tranny came out of a camero but was sold to me without the levers as the Muncie shifter, gates and rods had already been sold. I found a set of 67/68 Camero levers on ebay that look like those used on the '65 M20 Muncie.

(1). Does anyone know if the Camero M20 Muncie levers are the same as the '65 Nova?

(2). The bell housing is aluminum and came off a '62 three speed car with a six cylinder. Will this bell housing work on a 283 engine and is this bell housing stout enough for the M20?

(3). I have the flywheel and clutch from the 6 banger. Will the flywheel work on the 283? If not, does anyone have a suggestion on a flywheel and clutch for this conversion which will only see street driving and no racing?

(4). What is the required flywheel ring teeth count for the 283 engine?

(5). Will the drive shaft from the '62 work with the Muncie tranny? I also have the drive shaft for the three speed auto tranny. I have a local shop that builds custom drive shafts. I guess this is also a question about the yoke splines and length.

(5). Did the '65 hump for the 4 speed console have a rubber boot on top to keep out "stuff"? If so, where can I find the boot or something that will work? I've had some bucket seats for a while now and would like to install them along with one of the new reproduction console.

Ok, that's enough for now. I hope someone can help me fill the void that I have about what I am attempting to do.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

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fanbelt

· #2 · Aug 29, 2012

I recently did this conversion on my 63. The tailhousing on the trans was changed to one that has 6 shifter mounting holes on the left and the speedo enters the right side. The casting number escapes me right now but I can get it for you. Also, be sure and measure the hole in the bellhousing and compare to the front bearing retainer on the trans. I had the 6 cyl. bellhousing, which has a small hole, but I had it enlarged at a machine shop. The clutch fork enters at 7 o'clock instead of 9 o'clock position. I used a 153 tooth flywheel for header clearance. There is much discussion on this site about this swap. Just use the search tab. I will help all I can. I'll watch what others post and add what I can. HTH, Mike

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riverboatman

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 29, 2012

fanbelt said:
I recently did this conversion on my 63. The tailhousing on the trans was changed to one that has 6 shifter mounting holes on the left and the speedo enters the right side. The casting number escapes me right now but I can get it for you. Also, be sure and measure the hole in the bellhousing and compare to the front bearing retainer on the trans. I had the 6 cyl. bellhousing, which has a small hole, but I had it enlarged at a machine shop. The clutch fork enters at 7 o'clock instead of 9 o'clock position. I used a 153 tooth flywheel for header clearance. There is much discussion on this site about this swap. Just use the search tab. I will help all I can. I'll watch what others post and add what I can. HTH, Mike

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll check out the bell housing in a little while. I actually have two of these Nova bell housings and they both have the clutch fork hole at 7 o'clock. My M20 has the 6 shifter holes on the tail housing so it sounds like I'm ok with that. Do you happen to know if the 6 cly. flywheel and the 8 cyl (283) are the same?
Sam

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Ryan V64SS

· #4 · Aug 29, 2012

The flywheels should both be internal balance and 153 tooth so they should interchange but not 100% sure on that one. On an auto trans car they are the same though.

The 3 speed bellhousing will need to have the bearing retainer hole enlarged to work with a muncie.

As for the shifter I would recommend to stay away from the oem and get a hurst comp plus shifter.

Your driveshaft yoke is prob coarse spline and the muncie is fine spline so a yoke change is all thats needed.

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the FLYER

· #5 · Aug 29, 2012

the P/Glide yoke will work fine in your M20. i'd recommend getting the V8 bellhousing and not open up the Sixer unit. the cost to machine will be close to what you can buy the right unit for. i agree also that the factory shifter would not be a wise choice, that a Hurst shifter would be better. old sloppy factory shifters jamb/lock up.

if you need a bell housing, i have one available... PM me for details (my reply isn't a hopeful sale reply, just trying to assist you)

if you don't want to spend the extra bucks on the correct extension housing you can get by with the one you have... snaking the speedo cable can be a pita but it can be done.

the sixer flywheel will work but the clutch is not up to snuff to that of a V8. the sixer clutch is a flat diaphragm, the V8 unit is a raised diaphragm... buy a new clutch...

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fanbelt

· #6 · Aug 29, 2012

I paid $30.00 to get the trans hole enlarged on my bellhousing. He did it in a boring machine in about 20 minutes. Mike

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riverboatman

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 29, 2012 (Edited)

the FLYER said:
the P/Glide yoke will work fine in your M20. i'd recommend getting the V8 bellhousing and not open up the Sixer unit. the cost to machine will be close to what you can buy the right unit for. i agree also that the factory shifter would not be a wise choice, that a Hurst shifter would be better. old sloppy factory shifters jamb/lock up.

if you need a bell housing, i have one available... PM me for details (my reply isn't a hopeful sale reply, just trying to assist you)

if you don't want to spend the extra bucks on the correct extension housing you can get by with the one you have... snaking the speedo cable can be a pita but it can be done.

the sixer flywheel will work but the clutch is not up to snuff to that of a V8. the sixer clutch is a flat diaphragm, the V8 unit is a raised diaphragm... buy a new clutch...

FYI. I've had this car for 30 years and have just now been able to go to work on it because of my job situation. Better late than never as the old saying goes. I'm retired now and have started cleaning it out to get started.

I found an extension that is suppose to be for a '65 that looks like the speedo cable attaches to the same side as the shifter gates. The part # is 3846429. Is this correct for my M20?

A new clutch was always in the lineup. I live in very rural middle Georgia so finding a clutch in stock is going to be almost impossible but I'll see how that works out. Found this on eBay. What do you think?

Zoom Clutches MU1675-1 Pressure Plate Dia.: 10.4'' Disc Spline: 1-1/8'' x 10 Dia.

The flywheel face has rusted sitting in the trunk of the car so I'll be taking it to the machine shop tomorrow and see what they think. I haven't seen a flywheel anywhere on eBay so that might be a problem for me if this one is to far gone. I covered it in oil and put it in plastic but after 25 years of being in the trunk and outside, the moisture got to it anyway.

I've already bought the Muncie shifter gates, rods, tranny levers, reproduction shifter, backup light assy and cables so I guess I'm committed to going in that direction. This is just going to be a street driver and will never see a strip or back street as long as I own it.

I don't have a Powerglide tranny in it. It's a three speed. I assume a Turbo350. Since it's still under the car I'm wondering if the yoke for that tranny will work with the M20.

I assume PM means Phone Me but I don't have a clue as to how to get your phone number.

Sam

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carcrazy615

· #8 · Aug 29, 2012

PM means private message. To send him one click on his name and a drop down will show you how to contact him.

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Carl Stevenson

· #9 · Aug 30, 2012

I just did this swap on my 65 as well. I'd be happy to help you all I can. If you'd like to call me (I'm in Canada) we could go over it better. Mine is a Sport Deluxe (same as a Nova SS).

riverboatman said:
I have decided I want to take out the auto tranny in my '65 nova and install an M20. The car is completely stripped down and I feel now is the time to make all the necessary mods for a clutch. I have everything (I think) accumulated for the conversion but no tranny levers. The used tranny came out of a camero but was sold to me without the levers as the Muncie shifter, gates and rods had already been sold. I found a set of 67/68 Camero levers on ebay that look like those used on the '65 M20 Muncie.

(1). Does anyone know if the Camero M20 Muncie levers are the same as the '65 Nova?

(2). The bell housing is aluminum and came off a '62 three speed car with a six cylinder. Will this bell housing work on a 283 engine and is this bell housing stout enough for the M20?

(3). I have the flywheel and clutch from the 6 banger. Will the flywheel work on the 283? If not, does anyone have a suggestion on a flywheel and clutch for this conversion which will only see street driving and no racing?

(4). What is the required flywheel ring teeth count for the 283 engine?

(5). Will the drive shaft from the '62 work with the Muncie tranny? I also have the drive shaft for the three speed auto tranny. I have a local shop that builds custom drive shafts. I guess this is also a question about the yoke splines and length.

(5). Did the '65 hump for the 4 speed console have a rubber boot on top to keep out "stuff"? If so, where can I find the boot or something that will work? I've had some bucket seats for a while now and would like to install them along with one of the new reproduction console.

Ok, that's enough for now. I hope someone can help me fill the void that I have about what I am attempting to do.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

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riverboatman

Discussion Starter · #10 · Aug 30, 2012 (Edited)

carcrazy615 said:
PM means private message. To send him one click on his name and a drop down will show you how to contact him.

Well...DUH HUH is me!! :awkward:

I don't normally do forums unless I have a real need for help and wasn't familiar with the PM term. Thanks for straightening me out on that. I've now have it burned into my 65 year old brain......for a day or two.

!!

I did check my bell housing and it's part # 3849309 which I was told was the correct bell for the V8 and Muncie.

**Still waiting to hear from someone about the tranny levers (1) and hump boot (which should have been (6)).

Thanks folks for all your help. I really do appreciate everything you are helping me with.
:usa:

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Carl Stevenson

· #11 · Aug 30, 2012

To answer the ones I left unanswered: (!!!)

I am quite sure Camaro levers would be wrong. I have never seen any other application other than 67 and older Nova where the shifter mounts in the forward bolt holes on the tail housing.

The rubber shifter boot is available reproduction through most Nova parts places, yes.

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riverboatman

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 30, 2012

Carl Stevenson said:
To answer the ones I left unanswered: (!!!)

I am quite sure Camaro levers would be wrong. I have never seen any other application other than 67 and older Nova where the shifter mounts in the forward bolt holes on the tail housing.

The rubber shifter boot is available reproduction through most Nova parts places, yes.

Thanks, I have looked at the Camero and the Nova levers and they look almost identical except for a slight difference in the location of the backup light rod hole. I have found some repros for the '65, Unfortunately have to buy the rods in the set. I already have the rods that I got with the shifter gates and hate to spend the money to buy something I already have just to get the levers. Decisions, decisions. If anyone has info on where I can just get the levers, I would appreciate that info.

I have seen the flexible boots that fit on top of the hump and the ring that mounts the boot which were for the bench seat type but haven't seen anything specific to go under the console. Are they both the same?

I have hardly been outside for two weeks what for chasing stuff on the internet. This is hard work!!

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