Chevy Nova Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just finished repainting the '63 SS convertible - last done in 1990. While at it, replaced a lot of the shiny stuff that had faded over the decades. Drove Joe Grom nuts (OK, more nuts than he already is) chasing fasteners and those aggravating little things that we never think about until the car is in 300 pieces spread all over the garage. I finally found the correct color to 2-tone the red bucket seats and panels as per original build. New top will have to wait until spring when I can get it to Marietta Auto Trim (the best), but I did spring for the $400 top weatherstrip. I sure hope my wife doesn't find this thread...she thinks I bought a new garage door.
New carb rebuild from J&J ($200 vs $35 in 1990) is beautiful and works like it is suppose to. First time out of the garage and the fuel pump quit from 2010. Just quit, with less than 200 miles on it. Opened it up to find a check valve popped loose. Just laying there on top of the diaphram. Weird. No OEM pumps in stock within driving distance. NAPA found me a Carter B0122P for $36 UPS from Kingsport for next day delivery. Since these things are a bit hard to find locally, I ordered a spare - from Knoxville, and a 'spare' starter from.... New York. Got the 1st one installed and started right up, then gas - lots of gas. Fuel had blown all over the place, coming from the bolt in top of pump which was tight - NOT from any of the fittings. Never saw that before. Can you mount one of these things wrong? Knoxville pump not here yet, and wanting that spare, so NAPA found another one in New York where the starter was living. This car was a trailer queen for nearly 30 years. Now, I'm gonna' drive it starting with Super Chevy Bristol this weekend if I can find enough 'spare parts' to cover whatever.
If I get there....look me up. The Old-GM-Guy in the white '63 convertible. Or just follow the smell of fresh fuel......
 

·
Registered
1969 Nova . . 2dr . . Chino Valley,Az USA
Joined
·
4,934 Posts
you talking ' 194 ' -- six ......

brought a smile ..... way back when, after buying my 69 (250 - I6, then... p/g), the car had been sitting a few years ... so, I installed new parts : water pump, fuel pump, tune-up, & rebuilt the old 1bbl.
That was back in 1996.
Then, after working the night shift (12 hour shift - 2015), and, being My Friday
.... I left town to go home (from work to Chino Valley was about 90 - 95 miles). I get 17 plus miles outa town and the Nova quits. So, after getting off that road, I call th' wife (she's at her work), and tell her to go by NAPA and buy a new 'fuel pump' for the car. OK , she's on the way (may-be an hour & half away).
Long story is : that fuel pump had been acting up the week before, and the way it just died ..... I made a guess ..... and that's what it was.
When she got there, I just installed the new pump beside the road and off we went. For that 1 to 2 hours I sat beside the road ---- only one person stop to ask if I needed help ..... and, that guy worked at the Mine Shop where I worked ...... he knew it was my car.

OK --- the point here is that fuel pump was may-be 15 years old when it quit, and the one that went one has a few year running by now. I guess I've had good luck with my 'pumps' so far & only time I've had any issues with ANY six stock fuel pump.
The 194 and 250 engine looks to be the same pump ...... never heard of 'screws leaking' ........ just my input , just venting .....

I have had a starter break before. Pulled up in front of the house
(parked out in the street) , then, went out to move the car into the driveway. When I hit the key to start , it made a HUGH Noise ...... but, started right up. So, I think "what was that" ....... when I looked back into the street ----- there was a chunk of metal.
That 'noise' was the "nose of the starter" laying in the street. It broke off the whole part from the mounting bolts to the flywheel, still holding on by one mount bolt. By luck --- I had worked on the trans (p/g) and had left the lower flex-plate cover off .... causing the broken part to fall on the ground. Not sure what noise it would have been , if that cover had been in place and that chunk of alumn. kept spinning inside there. I was lucky.

I hope you get your good parts .......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
thanks, Jim. I want to drive this car more, but the days of finding spare parts at the local auto parts house are all but over. Where I live, most of the roads are narrow, hilly and with no shoulder and no place to pull over if a sudden stall. I find myself feeling bumps and hearing sounds coming from the car that probably have been happening for decades, and I'm sure most of it doesn't really exist. Long Gone are the days of driving this Nova 300 miles to Nashville then back over a weekend with $9 in my pocket for gas, diaper bag in the back, bald tires all around and no Interstate highways.... and all the parts stores closed on Sunday. Not a care in the world -- then. Getting old.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,123 Posts
Don't write off a longer trip just yet. You're working out all the bugs in the car by driving it on shorter trips and fixing the faults. I've did that on my convertible, and got the following 'opportunities':

-3 different cracks at alignment to finally get it to stop wandering
-popping off and losing an original oil cap that was too loose on the 210 freeway, and finding another one that fit better
-running out of gas when it showed 1/4 tank (faulty gauge)
-losing a shift rod from its hole, leaving me stuck in second gear on Colorado Blvd.
-fixing a plugged and sticking lifter that wasn't plugged back in 2000, but got stuck 14 years later when the engine was restarted.
-replacing a brake drum warped by a curb strike

But you have to remember these were dependable daily drivers when new. I've had several Nova daily drivers that were super dependable. Just gotta shake out the bugs, use the best possible parts sources, and be prepared.
 

·
Registered
1969 Nova . . 2dr . . Chino Valley,Az USA
Joined
·
4,934 Posts
thanks, Jim. I want to drive this car more, but the days of finding spare parts at the local auto parts house are all but over. Where I live, most of the roads are narrow, hilly and with no shoulder and no place to pull over if a sudden stall. I find myself feeling bumps and hearing sounds coming from the car that probably have been happening for decades, and I'm sure most of it doesn't really exist. Long Gone are the days of driving this Nova 300 miles to Nashville then back over a weekend with $9 in my pocket for gas, diaper bag in the back, bald tires all around and no Interstate highways.... and all the parts stores closed on Sunday. Not a care in the world -- then. Getting old.
I know what you mean ......
We took our Nova over 430 miles last May (2018 -- on the "Route 66 Fun Run) , and never had any problem. I had just installed a new transmission / clutch assembly, and the car ran Great. I kinda think that the more you keep your car on the road, the better you car is.
I do agree that Chev 6 parts appear too be getting fewer to find ....... and, for me, I can relate to My Water Pump --- 6 cylinder
A/C water pump ONLY --- and the last one I bought they (parts store - two different stores) told me they were only 7 left available -- rebuilt, no new pumps anywhere. That was a year ago ..... and, while a standard water (I - 6) pump will fit the engine ..... it's too long and hits the radiator. Plus, that makes all my Pulleys change also, and won't jive. ahh, life with a 'six - bannger'
Buying a few spares .. isn't a bad idea to keep your six up and running. I go to 'cruise night / lunch cruise' every week ........ and ....... see Chevy 6's far & few , if any ..... plus, it keeps your Nova going.

just my 2cents ,



#1


#2


#3


AND .... there's the Problem : picture #2 ... look at the 'shorter housing' with a long shaft, standard style pump
No A/C water pumps available because ; they use the 'a/c short water pump housing to rebuild the standard six water pumps.
Then, when needing an a/c water pump ................ there are no
"short style housings left --- bingo !

Just alittle Chevy 6 water - pump info (bitching) here.
thanks ..... I feel better .. :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
getting worse...

Put on the spare fuel pump from NAPA, the one they gave me to replace the one erupting fuel from the top bolt. B-0122-P. Scratched myself near to death getting the dang thing on under the A/C compressor. Hooked it up. Cranked the car but no to the point of starting. Just for grins I took a look at the pump. FUEL ALL OVER THE DARN THING - DRIPPING ON THE FLOOR. Same as the last one. Puddled in the indent on the top. Took photos and went to a mechanic who owns and works on these cars. He assured me it was another ANOTHER bad pump. He says there is suppose to be an O-ring or sealer gasket under that bolt to prevent leakage under pressure. Since NAPA will void warranty if I take the top off to look, I didn't check that. Got that other one (from New York) which I bought as a spare coming Monday. Anyone wanna go for THREE DUDS? Enough with Carter. Ordering a Delphi. Please... if I'm doing something wrong or you've had the same experience, let me know. [email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
manufacture says 'Sorry'

NAPA pumps that fit our Novas are supplied to NAPA by Carter Fuel systems, so I called Carter. Spoke with a nice guy who eventually admitted, under intense questioning which I learned by watching the Kavanaugh hearing, that they had a 'batch' of bad ones that somehow got mixed with good ones (NAPA B0012P) and there is no way to tell the difference. Advised I return it to NAPA and 'hope' I get a good one this time. Problem started with pumps for Corvairs then spread to GM 6-cyl and small block pumps. Carter finally tells me I might want to get a Delphi to be sure. OK, AMF0073 $38.99 from Summitt. Now...what do I do with the Carter spare when it gets here?
 

·
Registered
1969 Nova . . 2dr . . Chino Valley,Az USA
Joined
·
4,934 Posts
Well I have a thought ....

if you go back to NAPA --- the part number for my fuel pump : is a NAPA # M4503. Don't know who's brand that is : is in a blue
'NAPA Fuel Pump' box.

Have them pull this pump and compare it to your stock pump.
just thinking out-loud --- I'm sure there may be a difference , but I'd sure look (plus, they (local store here in Prescott)., had that pump in stock , don't remember the price -- around $20

and, My Nova is a 250 motor ....... I'd bet there maybe the same pumps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
problem discovered

After the 2nd failure it had to be something common. The top of this pump, as mounted on the 194, is a round, concave metal piece separated from the body by a heavy gasket. A 7/16 hex head in the center of the top piece, when torqued down against the center stud the hex head screws into, compresses the gasket and thus seals the gasket tightly under the hex head. I put a socket on that hex head and got almost three full turns (with minor effort) before it bottomed out. I would guess that the circular top piece has a 'spring effect' when installed during build. The outside edge of the piece is compressed to a set torque, but the center (with the spring effect) doesn't seat before that torque point is reached and the bold never bottoms out, leaving an unsealed gasket below the bolt which allows fuel to seep through the threads of the bolt, flowing out the top of the pump. If the top steel piece used is at all off in shape (too tall in the center), the 'torque set-point' meets the limit of resistance trying to compress the steel down to the stud, and doesn't get there. In any case.... a couple of turns of a wrench stopped the fuel flow. I drove it a few miles and it stayed dry. Do I trust it? Would you?
 

·
Registered
1969 Nova . . 2dr . . Chino Valley,Az USA
Joined
·
4,934 Posts
I drove it a few miles and it stayed dry. Do I trust it? Would you?

Good question ---

Maybe around the block , to the Local Store , just keep checking for being dry for a few days / or week. You'd be surprised that I 'pop my hood' and give my motor a once - over almost each time I go anywhere. I like my motor ...... and, it helps me to stay on top of things.
My (newer style fuel pump) does not have that top 'bolt'. mine is a 'crimped style' fuel pump. But, it's been running since 2012 .
Run it until you get your Delphi & compare. I'd say you found your problem ..... write down the miles & date installed , and give it a try.


Just a thought -- put a "scribe mark" on that lid & bolt -- then, if/when you lift your hood you can make a simple check ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
closing this thread. Can't win.........
I ordered another 'new' one from Delphi. Going with GM. Going with America. Got it in a pretty box with Delphi all over it. And it was EXACTLY the same as the junk ones known to come from Carter. Even the little tag under the screw was the same. Made in Mexico. Guys.... there just ain't no faith left, just different boxes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
The valve in my fuel pump (2 year old NAPA) fell out and I've just reluctantly replaced it with another. It leaked fuel out of the top screw at first just like yours but I was able to tighten it enough to where it doesn't leak, though it didn't give me much confidence. Guess I'll take a chance, that's what hot rodding is all about, right?
 

·
Registered
1969 Nova . . 2dr . . Chino Valley,Az USA
Joined
·
4,934 Posts
I kinda think that a later model fuel pump would work on/for the
194 motor. It might have a different out-let angle or so, but, they produced so many "Chevy Six's" that they should "inter-change" ....... would be my thought.
Like said, those 'old type' rebuildabile fuel pumps ............ can you even get any parts for rebuilding them ? ?

As long as that "cam drive arm" --- is the same, and you can "adjust" the inlet & outlet fittings to work , or the lines to fit, go with the newer style '250 I-6' fuel pumps.

That might work for your problem

I've had my Nova for over 22 years.............. and ............ I'm only on my second fuel pump ............ and, drive my car a lot, and mostly drive it "Like I Stole IT" .
An example is , back in March (2018), on the Route 66 trip, we drove 400 + miles ...... and, I wanted to check my gas mpg --- I got around 20 to 21 mpg. Last month I checked my mpg again ..... I'm down to around 14 to 14.5 mpg. WHY ........ (MY BIG LEAD FOOT) with my Holley 390 carb and new T 5 trans ......... I'm driving it harder than I ever have : the trans is working great & has some good miles on it now (I feel better - it's plenty strong enough for the six) ... meaning, faster and keep getting that 'second gear scratch' ..... using more gas ..........................................................


just can't help it (still using that 'stock fuel pump, that just keeps
a-pumping).

It might work out for you guys ...... I'm just saying .....
(or go with electric fuel pump).......... noise ?

https://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209645
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top