[jade76]

OK, I have an M21 I am selling to a local guy that wants it for his 68 Z28.

He originally offered $750 for it, and I was willing to take it. Now he's looking to trade an engine with a little cash instead.

He told me he used to drag the car, but has recently pulled the 396 to put a 302 in it to drive it.

Here's what he offering:
All the parts you need to build a good smallblock performance motor or everything for a big block except a crank/rods.
396 .030, forged crank and rods, 454 heads and an aluminum intake. I would even add a Holley 3310 750cfm dual line carb. I need a good 4 speed.
or
swap + $$$? 350 4 bolt w/steel crank, aluminum inatake and 69 Z28 heads?

He obviously wants the M21 pretty bad, but it almost seems like he's trying to push the motors off on me. I had that happen once in the past, bought a 350 thrown together that ran, but only lasted about 2 weeks, and when I pulled the intake and heads, had a huge crack in the block.

I wouldn't mind having a 396 to build, but it almost seems to good to be true. I was thinking a decent 396 short block would go for at least what he offered on the trans in the first place. Does this seem like a reasonable trade? He hasn't mentioned yet how much cash he's willing to throw in with it yet, and I figure it's best to let him make the first offer and go from there.

To some degree I think I would be getting a good deal, but figure I need some advice from some novices on this one.

Also, he mentions the 396 as being a BB, but I thought the 396 was a sb, or is it the smallest BB, and a 400 the biggest SB? I guess that has me a little confused. I'm pretty much a 305 & 350 person, but wouldn't mind having something bigger to throw in a drag car. I'm still fairly new at it, so I have to get my facts straight.

I have a good 400 crank waiting on a good block to put it in, but if the 396 is a BB I won't be able to use it. I'm not really familiar with the BB since I never really had any use for one. I know they're pretty much the same just more CI.

I'd probably prefer the 350, and have more parts to build it, but they're a dime a dozen around here. I can get one complete at the junk yard for about $130.

Any tips, advice or comments appreciated! :chev:

 

[americangraffiti]

One thing I would do is look up the 396 numbers in Mortec.......if it's a 962 block it was used for the 375 hp 396 and is the only 396 that can be bored out to a 427.
If you're not planning on doing a big block conversion in the future then the trade might not make sense.
Just my 2 cents.

http://www.mortec.com/bbc.htm

 

[jade76]

I'll have to ask the guy to get me the numbers, so I can check. I don't have any plan for it as far as street use, but if I do get it, I have another 4th Gen I was considering for an all out drag car. Not sure yet, I have too many projects already going on.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Ironman]

Cash seems like the better of the two deals. If you aren't planning to do anything with the motor right away and you find a problem later on it may be too late to go back to the guy.

 

[Gloryhound]

The smallest BBC would depend on what generation. The 348 is classified as a BB but not many people even think about them. They also made a 366 Tall deck BBC, again not a really good engine. The 396 is the smallest BBC that most people will think of when someone says BBC. Now I might need corrected a little here, but the biggest factory SBC used to be the 400, but I think the new 427 they are putting in the Corvettes is a SBC also, but a whole new generation of SBC.

As far as putting a 396 in an all out drag car goes, probably not the best choice unless you are dealing in a class that doesn't allow anything more than 400 cid. That being said your only going to be able to go like .010 over and still stay under the limit while an SBC 400 would not be able to be bored at all. They also made a 402 BBC which is basically a 396 overbored by .030! You will be much better off going with a 454 or larger in an all out drag car. Probably get it for around the same price and lets face it cubes are king. The 396 and 402 BBC engines do make good dependable street engines. I think they make a stroker kit for them that gets them in the 434 CID range with standard bores and on the 962 blocks you can punch them out far enough to make 454 CID, but your cylinder walls are getting thin and generally speaking the thinner the cylinder wall the higher the risk to the engine.

All that said. I have a 402 block in my garage. I've considered selling it and if the right offer comes along I will. In the mean time I keep collecting parts to build it al a later date. So far I got a set of heads, set of rods, a 427 steel crank, flexplate, intake, and push rods. It should be a fun engine to build if I ever get there.

 

[Nova_Guy]

Look at E-Bay and see what ANY Z-28 parts sells for. 750 is way to low for any original Z-28 parts. If this is the same 67 Z-28 muncie; they only made about 600 of those cars and that means big money for a correct part number part.

 

[Igosplut]

They also made a 402 BBC which is basically a 396 overbored by .030! You will be much better off going with a 454 or larger in an all out drag car. Probably get it for around the same price and lets face it cubes are king. The 396 and 402 BBC engines do make good dependable street engines. I think they make a stroker kit for them that gets them in the 434 CID range with standard bores .

The 854 402 70 blocks can be bored out from 402 to 427 without any problem. I've done three without the slightest problem.....

 

[jade76]

Thanks for the input guys, that helps alot in my decision.

Look at E-Bay and see what ANY Z-28 parts sells for. 750 is way to low for any original Z-28 parts. If this is the same 67 Z-28 muncie; they only made about 600 of those cars and that means big money for a correct part number part.

Yeah, it's same M21, but my research hasn't led to much info. I've checked all the sites I could find with codes and all stuff. Lets see what anyone here comes up with it.

Maincase Casting: 3885010 Muncie Code: P01005

Stamped below Casting # is a clock symbol with 4 dots starting at 12 o'clock position with 7 in center and 7-1 stamped to left of it. To the right of that it has L-4 SI stamped

VIN #: 6L115924

I know for a fact it's a 66-67 model M21 built in LA, but the date code has me confused since it doesn't have the letter for the month code which led me to believe the clock and indicated the shift and year and the date type stamp to left of it was the date, making me think July 1st, 1967 as the date of manufacture and the VIN told me it was from LA. The guys on the Camaro site tells me it was mfd October 10th, 1966 in LA and was probably for a large sedan type car.

I know the Camaro parts are worth big $. Had a complete 70 sitting on blocks I just gave a way about a year ago when the county threatened a $15,000 fine and made us get rid of it. I kept the dash assembly, lower door panels and seats which I quickly sold all of for a little over $700, and could have easilly gotten more but didn't really know at the time. Kicked myself in the a$$ when I realized I could have kept all the parts I put back in the car when it was hauled away. All the parts were already off, just had to be sold, or could've just sold it complete for 2-3 thousand at least. The body itself was in bad shape, but the car was 100% original and complete.

Oh well, I'd rather have a Nova any day of the week! I think Camaro's get too much hype.