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Discussion Starter #1
Do I need a special oil pan for the 3.75" stroke to clear it? I'm looking for something with a windage tray, trap door, etc. 6-7 quart.
 

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DriveWFO said:
Do I need a special oil pan for the 3.75" stroke to clear it? I'm looking for something with a windage tray, trap door, etc. 6-7 quart.
shhheeeeeeettttttt you dont need no stinking oil pan....just pour some slick 50 on it and you should be able to drag that thing without an oil pan on it:eek: :D
 

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I'm using the Moroso 20191 pan. It has a built in crank scraper and windage screen, however, we had to cut the crank scraper out for clearance purposes. I like this pan due to the expanded metal windage screen (which I have heard are more efficient than the louvered steel ones), and the ground clearance. It is kinda a pain to change the oil filter on, but hey, it's a race car. :D
 

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I just bought the Moroso 20190 pan this week for my 383. It's the same pan as David_D. mentioned, but without the windage tray and scraper and about $50 cheaper. Here's what they look like:

20191:
20190:


The only thing I can say about it so far is that the paint on it sucks and peels easy. I'm sanding it off as we speak to paint along with my block today.

I just used a stock pan (400 pan I believe) on my old 383 build and it cleared everything fine. I still have it if your interested.
 

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69NovaSS said:
shhheeeeeeettttttt you dont need no stinking oil pan....just pour some slick 50 on it and you should be able to drag that thing without an oil pan on it:eek: :D
Yeah!! What do you want all that weight on there for??? It'll just slow ya down!!!:rolleyes:

Randy (and you call yourself Amish!!):D
 

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As I posted here a while back, I run a Moroso 21016 pan which is a little pricey at $349, but it was good for 20+h.p. on the dyno.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
bowtie0069 said:
As I posted here a while back, I run a Moroso 21016 pan which is a little pricey at $349, but it was good for 20+h.p. on the dyno.
What could cause interference on the oil pan with a 3.75" stroke? At how many rpm did you see the 20hp on your setup?
 

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I had four counterweights hit the sides of my Moroso pan. I have a 388 and after mounting the pan I rotated the crank by hand and the crank locked up. I thought a piston was hitting a head or something but that was highly unlikely due to all the mock-up and calculations, head gasket thickness etc. It turned out to be the counterweight throws hitting the oil pan sides. I saw the dents in the pan. Then I rotated the crank counterclockwise and it put bulges in the pan and rotated freely after that. I now have four minor bulges in the pan but not very noticable from up top. Everything works great so far. Except I have a rearend whine now that I have more torque to bring the weaker components to the surface.

Don
 

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Take a serious look at Canton Racing Products solid louvered windage tray. It should work with pretty much any aftermarket 8-1/2" + deep pan, including Canton's. It fastens to ARP main studs and can be adjusted to fit your 3.75" stroke crank. I like this tray because the back completely protects the sump area from windage. There is one perfectly shaped hole to install the oil pump through.

I run one in the 383 in my '66 with a home-built 8-1/2" deep pan. The entire system, including filter, holds five quarts. The only disadvantage I see with this tray is it is not compatible with a stock dipstick. I remedied this by cutting a small hole in it to accommodate the dipstick. I also welded in an extra mounting strap to use all five ARP main studs.

I run Canton's pickup tube with a standard volume Melling oil pump. I also run the 55-60 psi GM relief spring.

With 10w-30 oil it idles at 25-35 psi, depending on oil temperature. It maintains rock solid steady 60 psi during blasts to 6,000 rpm. Oil pressure does not drop at all when I get out of the throttle at the end of a run.
 

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What could cause interference on the oil pan with a 3.75" stroke?
I run a 3.800 stroke and have no clearance issues with Eagle H-beams; some rods are bulkier and could come closer.
At how many rpm did you see the 20hp on your setup?
It made more power everywhere--Matt King ran similar pans(Milodon's w/kickouts) on big and small blocks and saw 20-24 h.p. on the dyno pretty much across the power band.
 

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I am showing my ignorance, but I find it amazing that there is that much HP to be found in the oil pan. That is something I would not have thought of without reading it here!!

Randy (why this site is great!!):)
 

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72GreenRally said:
Yeah!! What do you want all that weight on there for??? It'll just slow ya down!!!:rolleyes:

Randy (and you call yourself Amish!!):D
Ditto...the added weight of the pan and 5 quarts of oil is just holding ya back Dave...just run 'er without either and you'll be good to go:rolleyes: :D

Just remember that only thinking out side the box is not enough to win races....you need to think outside a totally different box, in a totaly different room, in a totally different building, in a totally different town, in a totaly different state, in a totaly different country, with a totally different head to win races:rolleyes::D

Or as someone else said...winners pay attention to details that losers dont....things like bribbing officials and cheating...THATS what makes them winners:D
 

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but I find it amazing that there is that much HP to be found in the oil pan
When Matt told me he found that much power I was skeptical; so when we were doing my engine article, I contacted Moroso about doing a sidebar on the power a good pan can make. The comparison was between a basic stock type pan(mine was a Milodon 6 qt.Z/28 clone) We ran the pan with the correct amount of oil; over filled, and underfilled, to see what happened(some slight loss with 2 qts over) then switched to the Moroso--WOW! I don't have the sheets in front of me, but it made more even at 2000-2500, where I would'nt have expected any gains. The main thing with this pan is the kickout on the passenger side that lets the oil be flung away from the crank. It seems to help much more than I would think possible. What was even better, was the cost to me---NADA! ZIP! ZILCH! NUTTIN! Free is one of my favorite words! But I think after seeing the results, I would spend the money on one.
 

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I'm a true believer in the HP available with a good design oil pan.
I did a study once with a clear oil pan that allowed observing what goes on inside the crankcase. It was a real eye opener
I also worked on several dyno projects testing various designs and in some cases the gain was 60-65HP! That was years ago and it's advanced even farther since then.

Bttom line is only use as much pressure as your engine reallly needs. Any more than that wastes power. Get the oil away from the spinning crank.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm going to run a standard pressure/volume pump. How do the crank scrapers work exactly?

Kinda sounds like ya tripped and fell with your zipper down :eek:
 

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The crank scraper is installed between the pan and block on the passenger side in place of the pan gasket. It is a piece of sheet metal that is cut to surround the rotating assembly. I believe you set it up with about 0.040" clearance to rods, counterweights, etc.

At higher RPM's the oil can get wrapped around the rotating assembly like a rope. The crank scraper physically removes the oil from the assembly.

Probably not necessary in a 6,000 rpm motor. However, with 12:1 compression, you're probably building an engine that will spin to 7k. You would definitely benefit from a crank scraper.
 

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David_D. said:
Why not just go all the way and use a dry sump oil system? :D
I think you know the answer, LOL. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Not really necessary for a motor that only sees above 6,000 rpm for a few seconds at a time.

We were doing some dyno work a while back. The shop owner had a Ford 302 in a sedan of some sort that ran 9.xx in the quarter mile. This motor was wet sump. He said it lost oil pressure during a dyno pull from 4,000-8,000 rpm @ 250 rpm per second. The total dyno pull was 16 seconds.

It experienced no oil pressure problems on the track, even shifting above 8k rpm! Evidently 9 seconds was not enough time for any problems to arise.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
bowtie0069 said:
As I posted here a while back, I run a Moroso 21016 pan which is a little pricey at $349, but it was good for 20+h.p. on the dyno.
Mike, how do you get access to the pan bolts? It looks like the sides of the pan are buldged out to allow the oil to sling off further away from the crank.
 
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