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Discussion Starter #1
This is a little long but I wanted to give you the history of what I’m doing. I have been gathering parts for a 283 since 1984. Because of other commitments I figured I’d be fine just buying a few parts along as funds became available. I wanted to keep my Nova engine as original as I could but it needed some upgrading. As I got to the point of retiring in 2007 and having most of what I needed, my wife asked about air conditioning so I took the step and purchased a complete VintageAir system. Since my engine was a bare bones with no power steering or air conditioning I ordered a VintageAir System with the brackets for a Short Water Pump. I never intended to install power steering so I figured buying the VA system for a short water pump would work out just fine. What I didn’t do was purchase the 2-groove water pump and crank pulleys at the time. As time slipped by, I completely forgot about the pulleys.

Around 2012 I ended up pulling the 350 engine that I had completely rebuilt in 2010 from my 1979 Camper G20 Van. It only has a little over 14K miles and I figured it’d be a nice 4-bolt engine to replace the tired 283 so I purchased a complete conversion kit from Chevy2only to convert the 350 to a front sump. So, here I am now and need some help.

Here are some questions I have about this conversion:
  • Will the old 1965 exhaust manifolds (3790729 & 30) work with a set of 3927186 heads?
  • If I want to upgrade to aluminum heads, does anyone know what heads would mate to these old exhaust manifolds and an old 3844459 intake manifold?
  • Will a short water pump install over the 350 timing chain cover?
  • Will the 350 accept the 283 6” balancer or do I need to run the 8” 350 balancer?
  • If I have to use the 350 balancer will the 283 2-groove pulley mount on the 350 balancer?
I measured from the face of the 283 timing chain cover to the outside surface of the 6” harmonic balancer and it was 2”. I did the same measurement on the 8” 350 and it also measured 2”. Any help you can offer to an old Nova guy will be greatly appreciated before I go spending money to make this 350 conversion work with the VA System. Sam
 

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The 283 exhaust will fit the 350 head #3927186.
The intake will not bolt up to the "Vortec" design cylinder heads.
The water pump will bolt up.
The 283 balancer will not fit the 350.
The 283 has a small journal crank. The 350 has a large journal crank.
I am not sure on the pulley but I think the way it goes is the small journal pulley will bolt on to the large journal balancer, but the large journal pulley will not bolt on to the small journal balancer.
I think all the crank pulleys have a lip that centers inside the balancer. The larger journal balancer has a larger diameter hole in the center, so the lip on the pulley will not fit inside small journal balancer. The small journal pulley's lip will go inside the larger hole of the large journal balancer, but I'm not sure how "true" the small journal pulley will align using the bolts alone. I know there are large journal crank pulleys that work as replacements for the small journal crank pulleys but I have no information as to which car, year, model, or part number to use. I'm sure someone here has that information.
For me, if I was in this situation, I would remove the pulley and lay it flat with mounting side up and measure the height from the balancer mating surface down and then measure the diameter. With these two measurements I would do a google search like "Chevy 8" Crankshaft V groove pulley with 1" offset". Most likely you would find a part number that works at Summit or Amazon or even Classic car parts. I hope this has been helpful.
Ed D.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Ed.

Sorry for being so later responding. Been spending a lot of time on the Web trying to find the pulleys I need. With the perimeters that I need for that pulley, I’m not having any luck. I never thought this would be as much trouble as it has been. Trying to figure out exactly what I need to move stuff from the 283 over to the 350 is making me nuttier than I already was.

Thanks for the info as it is good to know. I figured the balancers wouldn't be interchangeable but had to ask. I had completely forgotten about the change over from small to large journals. My 1979 350 is definitely large journal.

I was told the GM 3744043BA 2-groove crankshaft pulley will work on the 283 and from what you have said it appears that it should also mate to the 350 balancer since the center hole lip will be smaller.
I know the lips on the center holes are supposed to keep the pulley centered on the balancer so I'm hoping this pulley will not move around. If it does then I'll have to figure out how to make a spacer of some sort or find another crank pulley that will work better.
I'm still having a problem trying to find a water pump pulley as the original 1-groove 283 pulley diameter is 7" with 2 3/4" depth. Most websites don’t include the depth measurement in their “Specs” list. Do you by chance know if the 2-groove pulley would still have the same depth as the 1-groove?
I've looked at a lot of water pump pulleys and have found a few with the 5/8" center hole but they end up having 6.40" or 6.25" diameters or have the larger spaced bolt holes instead of the 1.75" spacing that I need for a short water pump. Every pulley I’ve looked at so far have at least one of the measurements incorrect for what I need. So, here I am.

I still have the original crankshaft pulley on the 350 engine and couldn't get it off using a long pull handle with it mounted on an engine stand. Something that I just thought about. Would it be possible to insert a brass rod into the spark plug hole of a cylinder to stop the engine near the top of travel without damaging the piston? Then I can put a longer extension on the pull handle to try and loosen the crankshaft pulley bolt. Since I don’t have the flywheel on the engine this is the only thing I can think of to get the crank pulley bolt off. Thoughts?

About the heads. I’ve been looking for a set of aluminum heads for the 350 as a first choice but will use the 3926186 heads if I can’t find aluminum one’s worth buying. I’ve done a lot of looking and the only aluminum heads that I have found which would allow the use of the 29 & 30 exhaust manifolds and the 3844459 intake manifold are made by Trick Flow. They are DHC-175 TFS-30210002 which are designed to look like the old 3782461 heads with no accessory bolt holes. As usual there are pros and cons but what set of heads under $2K don’t? My intentions are to strip the heads, no matter which I chose and completely rebuild them with known good quality valves, springs, roller rockers and guides. Trick Flow does sell the bare heads. I’m drawn to the original look of the 461/462 design as I want my engine to look as close to the original 283 as can be had. Has anyone had any experience with these TF heads?

This is a lot of stuff but hopefully you guys can get me through this without too many more problems than I have already run into.

Sam
 

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First off. Do not put a anything in the spark plug hole to break the crankshaft pulley bolt loose.

If the engine is on a stand and the flex plate is already removed, buy two 7/16" 20 by 2" long bolts from a hardware store and insert them all the way in until you can see the bolt on the other side of the crank. Then put a bar between the two bolts and turn the crankshaft counter clockwise until the bar contacts the engine stand adapter. Have someone help stabilize the engine while you push down on the breaker bar handle so the engine does not tip. It should break loose fairly easily. Most people use an impact gun but I take it, that is not an option. The balancer is pressed on so you have to use a harmonic balance puller to remove it. So leave the two bolts and bar locking the back of the crank until you get the balancer off.

If the flexplate is still on the engine you can use a large tip screw driver to lock the flywheel in any of the holes or using the ring gear teeth. They also have a tool with a handle on it that engages the teeth so one person can hold the flywheel from turning as the other person breaks the bolt loose. Try Amazon if your locale auto parts doesn't have one or anything like this one.
Powerbuilt 648455 Flywheel Turning Tool.jpg


Powerbuilt 648455 Flywheel Turning Tool
 

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Okay so I have to ask. You stated "I want my engine to look as close to the original 283 as can be had." If you want the engine to look like the 283 are you going to paint the aluminum heads Chevy Orange? I was just wondering why you want the aluminum heads or are you looking for 350 heads that do not have all the accessory bolt holes.

Also, if you have a Vintage Air system almost complete I think I would contact Vintage Air and let them know you want to install the system on a 350 instead. With the part numbers you have they will know the spacing and distance and most likely be able to help you with any part or pulley you need. The brackets that come in those kits are designed to locate and hold the alternator or a/c compressor etc. in a position so the belts line up and the component is turning at the correct rpm. They may even recommend a different pulley diameter in certain locations.

Maybe try this link
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I didn't get around to going to town for the bolts but will try tomorrow to pick two up. I am converting this engine from a TH350 auto to a Muncie M21 4-Speed so the flywheel has not been put on yet. The engine is going to be completely disassembled and tank boiled with new cam bearings installed for sure before it is reassembled. It only has 14K miles since I rebuilt it so I'm hoping all other bearings are good. We'll see.

I spent another day looking for a water pump pulley with no luck finding one I felt good about. The original 283 SWP pulley is 7" wide and I did finally find a 2-groove pulley but that was on eBay and the company had terrible feedback. It seems they sell a lot junk but I will pursue it further as a last resort.

It seems that all the pump pulleys that I looked at were 6.40 wide so it looks like maybe GM changed the design of their pulleys at sometime. Maybe even the SWP with A/C used a 6.40" pulley but I haven't uncovered any info about that happening. There must be a reason that all the repop pulleys are smaller than the original 1-groove pulleys were. The first thing on my agenda Monday will be to call Vintage Air and see what their measurements are on their 22503-VCA water pump pulley. The cost is $85 from Summit so if I'm going to have to pay twice the price for a pulley, it had better be right.

About the heads. Since my 283 engine didn't have the accessories holes, I was looking for something like that. The VA system I bought was going to be for the 283 engine so if I'm now going with the 350 I've got to make some adjustments. I never could find a set of 461/462 or 291/292 heads without the holes but I did end up with a set of 186 heads a few years ago and they ended up being my only choice if I wanted to stay with the original exhaust manifolds. But, what with all the talk about sinking valves with the unleaded gas, I have been giving some though about maybe increasing the compression for a little more HP and not having to worry about the sinking valves and ping by going to aluminum heads.

The Trick Flow heads fit the bill because of the straight plugs so I don't have to go with headers and would be able to use the 29/30 original manifolds. Of course, I don't want to buy boat anchors either. So, I'm hoping I can get some feedback from anyone that has bought these heads. I've got high hopes, huh?

I am going to paint the whole engine with primer and GM orange paint when it's finally put back together. The pulleys will be black and I ordered some stuff from Eastwood I think it was, to put on the exhaust manifolds after they have been sandblasted to keep them looked decent. Not sure if that stuff can withstand the heat but we'll find out about that when the time comes.

I'm still thinking about how I'm going to set up the PCV on the 350 using the Script valve covers but I got some ideas from a guy about using the L79 setup and parts from a GTO 389 engine, drawing fumes from under the intake manifold. More about that if it works out. If not then I'll just have to move on to more modern valve covers with vents.

If anyone happens to know what the GM part number is for the 2-groove pulley used with the SWP on the Nova 283 W/AC , please let me know. Nobody seems to know what the A/C belt diagram looked like back in 1965-1967. I haven't been able to find a diagram. All the info I've found, when the A/C was bought, seems to also have power steering.

I'm wore slam out so I'm headed to the kitchen for some OREO cookies and a glass of milk to calm my nerves.
Sam
 

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Hey Sam . . . milk & cookies sound good (my kinda guy) . Any & Most drive acc pulleys can be a hugh pain . (original type GM pulleys) . So, here's my input :

if any (members) go to look at their - 283 , 65 , Nova's engine pulleys - - - - I have found out , say . . . looking for Nova six cylinder w/p pulleys - That GM (all I've looked at)

DID PUT PART Numbers " stamped into each drive pulley " . . . and, those pulley numbers are there. That being said ; I have even pulled (removed) parts & w/p pulleys too get at some of those ' stamped pulley numbers ' . that goes for both my 'parts car (Nova) & my driver 69' .

As many of these '65 cars were made & if you have one around - - - you could look and see if those numbers are there - - - doing that would give 'riverboatman' at least a shot.
(even, some old guys may not know those numbers are on their pulleys . . . I sure did-not know it , until I started looking closer ).

here is a pic - - - showing what I mean = = = =

# 1 - - 69 Nova 250 six with factory A/C . this motor uses a shorter w/p = than the standard chevy six motor = (because, any a/c car got the 'Heavy Duty cooling package (either 6 or V 8 ) . So too clear, the radiator they made a special "shorter water pump , for more clearance" , and installed a 3 row v8 rad.




# 2 - - also using a V 8 - 7 blade Fan (3947772) , with a clutch drive .



This part number is listed in my 69 F A M . . . . . but, you'll never find this pulley .

This post is NOT about my car = = = it's too help SNS member ' riverboatman ' , to ask someone out there maybe to look at your stock pulleys , , you
may have a number that can help out .
( ps - - - you don't even have to remove anything from your engine - - look at this picture - - you should be able to see any number .

# 3 - -



Hey Sam , just putting it out there - - - been there , . . . . . . jim
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Jim. For the life of me, I'd never have thought this would be so complicated until I started looking for these pulleys. I thought I had found one which had the right measurements and got let down when I realized it was a single groove. I never thought about radiator size, whether a shroud was used and water flow.....geez!

I'm going to talk to Vintage Air and see if they can help me since when I ordered my system they asked what engine and water pump I was using. I'm not sure what other questions, if any, they asked since it's been a couple of years since I ordered the VA system.

I'm definitely still open for any info anyone can give me as VA might not be able to help me. Surely someone here has installed the VA system on a 283 engine with a short water pump.

I'm off to the hardware store to pick up the bolts to help me remove the original 350 crankshaft pulley.

Thanks for any and all help you guys can give me.
Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well guys, I finally had to give up. I could not find any info about the 283 engine with a 2-groove water pump pulley. It's a thought GM never made one but surely that's not true. The idea that there were no A/C systems installed unless the buyer got the power steering option also. Maybe this was a two system only option, I just don't know. There were indications from photos that the 283 engine had a 3-groove pulley setups which would have been for the A/c-Power steering option but nothing for an engine that only came with A/C. All that I could see gave me the impression that if you ordered the A/C you also got power steering. It seems that GM had numerous pulley setups for the Camaro, Chevelle and Corvettes but I never found anything for the Nova. There were numerous 2-groove pulleys under numerous different part numbers but nothing that was specific for the Nova 283 engine. I couldn't find any info that GM changed the diameter of the Nova pulleys from 7" to 6.25" when they went from 1-groove to 2 or 3- grooves. So, I called Vintage Air. I gave them the part number of the system I had bought and they told me they had a 2-groove short water pump pulley (22503-VCQ) that would work with their system. They also have the 2-groove crankshaft pulley (22506-VCA) but since I have already bought the GM 3744043BA crank pulley, I'm going to see if these two pulleys will line up. If not, I'll go back and buy the Crank pulley from VA. I'm thinking I should have done this to start with.

Anyway, I'm sorry that I couldn't have found a cheaper pulley as the VA pulley ended up costing me four times what the other pulleys cost that I looked at. Thanks for all the help you guys gave me and when I get this figured out, I'll let y'all know.
Sam
 
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