Change firing order for 30 HP - Chevy Nova Forum
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Old 17th-December-2006, 03:03 PM   #1
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Change firing order for 30 HP

I just watched Hotrod TV and they used a 7 4 cam that change the firing order of #7 & #4 cylinder and picked up 30 hp in a SB 406 without have to do any other mods.They didn't say if it was application specific though.I'd do that to my BB in a heart beat for 30 free hp.The cam is $90 more than regular/standard grind.Any one know of these.

Paul
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Old 17th-December-2006, 03:17 PM   #2
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ive used that cam company several times,lazer cams.. great people to work with but ive never changed the firing order. i seen that show also..
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Old 17th-December-2006, 03:34 PM   #3
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I talked to my engine builder about using one of those swap cams and from his experience you only get a handful of HP over 6K RPM's. He did a back to back test and that was his experience anyway.

Since my motor won't see anything north of 6K RPM's I opted to go without the swap.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 03:38 PM   #4
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My buddy who was with me in the dyno cell when testing my 4/7 swap just called me about that. We had a good laugh. I've never seen anyone find more than a couple h.p. with the swap.
The general consensus is you might see a little power in a very high power/high rpm engine, but nothing in a mild deal like that TV piece.
But I bet they sell a lot of cams after that show airs! Don't waste your time or money; until the price comes down to the same as the standard firing order, I wouldn't even consider it again. BTW, mine was free, and I'm not sure I would do it again for free.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 03:46 PM   #5
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Bowtie's experience was identical to what I was talking about.

From what I heard somewhere else, the best you could hope for from that cam at lower RPM's is maybe a smoother idle and maybe slightly cooler temps.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 03:49 PM   #6
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Here's how to pick up 100 horses with some springs:

http://www.airflowresearch.com/hydra_rev.php

The average power is all the same until 6000+, but if you focus entirely on the peak gain it sounds like a lot.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 04:27 PM   #7
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I don't know anyone who saw a hugh benifit from those swap cams either. It's like alot of stuff, just a new bell and whistle or the newest trick of the month. With all that said my new motor will probably get one. Just helps the resale value cause everyone wants the bells and whistles so they can bench race over a cold one and tell everyone they got one......LOL. RM
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Old 17th-December-2006, 07:57 PM   #8
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The LS1 has a firing order of 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3.
They do sound different than a SBC. Besides the overall design of the heads, that was also a change on these engines from the old SBC.
Obviously it works because an LS1 engine in its stock form is pretty potent.
Just a 224/230 .580/.570 112 cam and headers on my TA and its best trap speed is 115mph in all factory trim.
And it will keep pulling, yet is lacking nothing at all on the low end.
GM changed the fireing order for a good reason and it show it makes a world of difference.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 08:00 PM   #9
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Seems everyone and their dog is running them at my local track. I haven't heard any of them say they can tell much difference good or bad.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 09:46 PM   #10
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Thanks for all the input on this thread the current cam I have is;

gross lift.575 in .575 ex
dur.@.006 305 in. 305 ex
dur.@.050 253 in. 253 ex
lobe lift.3380 in .3380 ex
lobe sep. 110

From comp cam.

I want to go with roller Hydraulic equal to stock 375 hp cam maybe a little more.
I don't have all the specs but here's what I know 396 375 hp stock bottom end std bore aluminum open chamber heads stainless swirl polish valves casting# is 14011077 w/winters logo I think LS7 they have been match ported and I think the bowls have been worked.I would like to add NOS down the road 150-200 shot 200 Max what do you recommend.I'm trying to keep it on pump gas 94 octane,that was the reason for open chamber head with close chambered pistons.

Is more info needed?

More street then strip use but it is a play toy not a daily driver.I'm also open to rear gear choice,I would like to run any where from 3.90 to 4.56.

Let me know what you think.
Thank you Paul
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Old 17th-December-2006, 10:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwrtrip75 View Post
The LS1 has a firing order of 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3.
They do sound different than a SBC. Besides the overall design of the heads, that was also a change on these engines from the old SBC.
Obviously it works because an LS1 engine in its stock form is pretty potent.
Just a 224/230 .580/.570 112 cam and headers on my TA and its best trap speed is 115mph in all factory trim.
And it will keep pulling, yet is lacking nothing at all on the low end.
GM changed the fireing order for a good reason and it show it makes a world of difference.
Did you just say
Just a 224/230 .580/.570 112 cam


And I would have to believe the dyno tested results of my engine builder and Bowtie's experience over any other speculation.

Is a smoother idle, cooler temps and a handful of HP over 6,000 RPM's worth $90 to you? Then go for it. To be honest if money was no object, I probably would have opted for it just for ****s and giggles.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 10:44 PM   #12
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The new LS series does have the 4/7 cylinders switched but the reason was for crank shaft loading. GM engineers found the mains had unequal loading on Mains #4 and #2. By changing the firing order the difference was reduced (the low one goes higher and #4 goes lower).
This is not a "new" V-8 firing order. Fords have the same firing order as the LS engines and had it a long time ago. Re-number a 351 or 5.0L Ford to the Chevy system (Odds on the left and Evens on the right) and you'll get the same 18726543 firing order.
Not all Gen 1 engines get a gain just from switching firing order. This is an advanced project best left to someone with the necessary vast resources to dyno test and try various configurations to optimize the combination to work.
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Last edited by Paul Wright; 17th-December-2006 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 17th-December-2006, 11:47 PM   #13
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Hi,

I cant really see 30 hp.

The better idle, and temps seem about right, and I have seen somewhat easier starting. This is in engines with pretty big rollers .690+ and pretty high rocker ratios.

I don't get charged hardly any more for swap, I think its about $30.00 more for the core, so I would think it may be a value for a few bucks. I don't think it hurts anything.

It may be intake modifications an/or exhaust (X-pipe?) changes may bring out more. They seem to sound a little "cooler".

I cant really say one way or the other. It would be cool to test it in a car with a data logger with 8 exhaust temp and/or a 10 wide-band ox system to see if you could modify the intake enough to show some real gain. Like Paul said that would be a real time consuming and an expensive process. After that type of program maybe 30hp.

Magazines and TV shows are kinda like creative accounting, what do you want the numbers to be? I still value the race tracks as the best source of what works and what doesnt. But I bet they do get a bunch of calls about new camshafts.



Good luck

Jeff
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Old 18th-December-2006, 02:19 AM   #14
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I watched the same show and my BS alarm went off with the claimed gain of 30 HP. I think most applications gain 4 to 6 HP. The 4-7 swap cams are supposed to help crank deflection slightly which could be a benefit at very high RPM.

John K
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Old 8th-February-2007, 12:39 PM   #15
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Laser 4/7 Cam

This week on HP TV on Speed Channel, they installed a cam from a company called Laser. This cam changes the firing order on a SBC from 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 to 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2. With all specs the same except for firing order, the engine dynoed w/33 more hp than before. WOW. (PS: "WARNING" You CAN'T CHANGE THE FIRING ORDER ON YOUR ENGINE WITHOUT CHANGING TO A CAM MADE FOR IT)Any thoughts?
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