Stock sbc 462 head flow - Chevy Nova Forum
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Old 10th-October-2006, 11:04 AM   #1
Lil'Deuce II
 
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Stock sbc 462 head flow

Can anyone tell me what the 462 head flows 2.02/1.60. I switched up to the 70cc perf rpm heads and they are 170. Just curious how much the changeup is.
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Old 10th-October-2006, 11:09 AM   #2
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A stock 462 flows about 195-205 CFM @ 28" (unless it's on a super stock racer and then it somehow gets much better while appearing stock.)

The 170 number for the heads you bought is intake runner volume in cubic centimeters.
My database of head flow has the Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum head (70cc chamber) flows 235 cfm @ .500" 236 @ .600"
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Last edited by Paul Wright; 10th-October-2006 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 10th-October-2006, 11:11 AM   #3
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ya I was going to say around 200cfm. Paul, would the intake cc on the 462 be around the 160-165cc range?
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Old 10th-October-2006, 11:27 AM   #4
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According to nhra they are 165. I dont know if thats just a superstock thing though.

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/runners/index.html
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Old 10th-October-2006, 11:36 AM   #5
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I think that's about right. I don't use those heads any more and I concentrate more on cross section than volume. For example if you just port match a head you increase the "burrette volume" but it won't effect the peak port velocity.

I might also add that the intake manifold is really part of the runner when it's ultimately bolted together. The total runner volume is much greater.
Flow testing a head and then flow testing with the manifold attached will sometimes give you surprising results.

For inertia ram tuning, the total runner length is important. This is the length from the intake valve to the plenum chamber.
The second harmonic is the strongest. You can solve for optimum runner length in inches for a second harmonic pulse tuned to coincide with a specific rpm by this:

132,000/rpm

Example: 132,000/6,000 = 22"

That's almost 2 feet! I don't know if you remember the old Mopars with the long outboard cross ram runners, but that was an attempt to capitalize on the ram tuning effect. Hence the Ramchargers, name.


Less stronger pulses are the 3rd and 4th harmonic but they require a shorter runner.
Intake valve closing point is critical to take advantage of the inertia ram effect.
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Originally Posted by Paul Wright
Building a small, high rpm engine
with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive...
like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.
.

Last edited by Paul Wright; 10th-October-2006 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 10th-October-2006, 11:44 AM   #6
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Paul, I know this likely sounds stupid but I'm sure I read somewhere that the longer the intake runner the lower the peak power RPM...does this sound right? I'll have to see if I can find the article I was reading and post it...
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Old 10th-October-2006, 12:05 PM   #7
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here is a quote from the article I was talking about. Its from the march '87 issue of Car Craft. Its from pg 40 and is an artcle on selecting a street tunnel ram.
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Last edited by 69NovaSS; 21st-January-2009 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 10th-October-2006, 01:02 PM   #8
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Hi guys,

I really dont know what the 462 will flow. I guess you would be talking at 28in and .5 valve lift?

I think the 165cc is pretty close but in my experience they are generally less than that.

You know, the super stock heads dont really appear very stock anymore most of the small blocks I have seen have exhausts raised and are "D" ported. The intakes are are raised as well.

The Stock Eliminator heads are supposed to be stock, but there is considerable work done. Still not much to look at compared to a Dart-World-AFR-etc..

My only thought on both the Super/Stock and Stock cyl heads is basically this and just my opinion----- I dont like to look at a component (head Manifold- etc) in such a limited mind set. If I see engines making a lot of power and more importantly cars going fast, using "limited" parts, maybe the technology that they are using if applied to other classes would have benefits.
The attitude that to get "X" horsepower you have to have 14 to 1 compression and a 230cc head, may just not be true. Having the basics of the engine right is much more important to me than just throwing parts at stuff. I just enjoy trying to get as much out of as little as I can. I know that attitude is not for everyone, but I have found looking at the technology and theory that these (S/S-Stock) type engines use, if applied to "standard" automotive engines, show amazing benefits.

I have seen something as simple as cyl wall finish and ring package improve a bracket car .3 sec.. Its this type of thing I enjoy. Im not real big on "killer Parts" unless you need them.

Sorry to ramble and I wont mention Stock or Super/ Stock stuff here again (Promise)

Good luck
Jeff
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Old 10th-October-2006, 01:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stock z/28 View Post
Sorry to ramble and I wont mention Stock or Super/ Stock stuff here again (Promise)
Jeff, please do mention them again in the future. I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds then interesting, thought provoking, and educational. Thanks for sharing your insight with us.
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Old 10th-October-2006, 01:13 PM   #10
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Jeff... keep on mentioning stock / super stock stuff! I am super-interested in the tricks they use to go fast with stock parts!
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Old 10th-October-2006, 02:18 PM   #11
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I read an article on the difference between Pro classes and bracket racers. If you offered a Super Stock or Pro Stock racer a part he could bolt on and increase output power by 10HP it could be worth an almost unlimited amount of money. The average bracket racer could give or take 10HP and never miss it as long as the car stays consistant. The same article talked about a 67 BB Super Stock Camaro the owners had flow benched over 100 intake and head combinations trying to increase HP.
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Old 10th-October-2006, 02:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
I read an article on the difference between Pro classes and bracket racers. If you offered a Super Stock or Pro Stock racer a part he could bolt on and increase output power by 10HP it could be worth an almost unlimited amount of money.
When we were full on, knee deep in our prostock truck engine developement it was costing us about $10,000 per hp after we got our good baseline engines up and running. One of those engines were $87,500 and you had to buy two. We wouldn't sell just one. You also had to sign a non-compete clause. One engine would be being upgraded, while the other was running. You paid for all of the upgrades along the way, if you wanted to keep up. So yes, 10hp would be pretty spendy. A current prostock car engine is just about priceless, because nobody will sell you one. There are a few major players in that game, and they all lease the engines. You show up at the race, get your engine, put it in, race, and it comes back out and goes to the guy you leased it from. Most of them will provide you with a test engine if you want to go test somewhere, but it's not the good piece.
While i like the ingenuity that goes into the stock/super stock cars, I would much rather just buy good pieces to begin with and not worry about. If you saw what went into a national record holding A/SA you wouldn't believe it. They are very fragile pieces. I would hate to even try to imagine what it would cost to have someone build one for you. Probably in the $50,000 area, just to guess. All that to make 600hp or so? I'll take the "new" parts for 10 times less.
Much of what goes into a good stock piece is also utilized in your local circle track late model cars. Non ported heads,intakes,and flat tapped cams. All silly rules that do nothing but drive the price of the engine up. One of my good late model engines will run about $25-30,000, depending on parts. Absolutely silly,but the guys that want to win, are willing to spend it. I guess i've gotten a bit of track here. So I'll stop now.

shawn
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Old 10th-October-2006, 04:36 PM   #13
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Hi Shawn,

Again I really dont disagree with anything you have said.
I dont know what your buddy has in his a/sa car but I bet its very substantial, but I guess its what he wants. I bet he got a "tremendous" sence of satisfaction when he set the record. I know I would have.

Im not trying to get anyone to do much of anything, just not to wholesale discount what basically simple and plain components will provide when properly (and sometimes very cost effectively) prepared and/or applied.


To get away from the engine issue I will try an use the suspension/chassis as an example. I get a lot of guys asking about 4/link and ladder bars. I dont really know anything about either. When I ask how fast they are going to try and go, its usually not all that fast. I suggest they look at how quick a properly set up car can go with a Cal-Trac type bar and a 9 in tire, with little or no major chassis mods. I have customers who are very happy in 10-- 10.50 range with this set up. If a guy wants 14 in tires and 4 link its ok with me, but it dosent mean he had to have it to run 11.20s.

This chassis learning stuff dosent really apply to me at all because I know nothing about it and dont really ever do any work on them, but I think the learning curve from "having" to use a 9in tire and traction bars has been valuable to a lot of people.

One of the neet things about most class type racing is its very cause and effect oriented. Most changes have an effect and what you can learn from that in my opinion its very valuable in other forms of racing as well. I know that info I have learned in stockers has been a major benefit in circle track motors as well as budget street motors.

I would hope the effort that you put into your Pro/Stock Truck produced some valuable knowledge that could be applied to other type engines as well.


Looks like Im rambling again sorry

Jeff
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Old 10th-October-2006, 09:09 PM   #14
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Guys I love the rambling!!!!!! thank you Paul for the specs and the tune up on what I thought I knew
Jeff, I like the Super Stock input you offer as improving stock components and perfecting the whole build process really makes you appreciate the time spent putting it all together.
I think I'll spend a little more time on the science of my motor.
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Old 11th-October-2006, 09:23 AM   #15
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Check this site out.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm
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