Starter gear not meshing with flexplate!! - Chevy Nova Forum
Visit our sponsor, National Nostalgic Nova
 
Steve's Nova Site is an automotive enthusiast website dedicated to the 1962 - 1979 Chevrolet Nova, Chevy II and Acadian automobiles. We work together to preserve, restore, drive, show, race and provide fellowship for these classic cars. This is one of the best places to find information about parts, rebuilding, restoration and racing. This website is not affiliated with GM, General Motors or Chevrolet in any capacity.

Go Back   Chevy Nova Forum > Body, Chassis and Mechanical > Electrical


StevesNovaSite.com is the premier Chevrolet Nova Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 8th-July-2012, 10:01 PM   #1
64Duce

Title: Nova Junior Member
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 62
Starter gear not meshing with flexplate!!

Here was my original post/problem
http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums...d.php?t=201746

Well me and a buddy went over and worked on the car today. We crawled under the car and found out that when we hear the "clicking" sound it's just the starter gear teeth hitting the teeth on the flexplate. We pulled the starter and it had a .040 shim in and the the gap was too large, we tried the .020 shim and the gap was still too big and the starter would not meshing with the flexplate (click) once out of roughly 20 starts. Well we pulled the .020 shim because the gap was still to big and reinstalled the starter w/o a shim. The starter would mesh great and then not mesh after a bunch of tries. So all in all the problem is that the starter gear is not meshing with the teeth of the flexplate, I pulled the starter once again and ran the part number on the starter. The starter is for a GM 1994-2000 pickup/tahoe, I asked the parts store if it mentioned what flexplate tooth count it was for and it was a 168. I looked for a part number on my flexplate to see what tooth count it was and we couldn't find one, so we just counted and it was a 168. So to make a long story short everything is working great, but for some reason the teeth wont mesh sometimes. If you turn the motor over by hand it will go ahead and engage, assuming because the flexplate has rotated to a different spot. I was thinking the flexplate could be out of round, but why would jumping the car in the past start the car right up when having the problem. We took the starter off and took a dremel tool to the teeth on thes starter and put a slight bevel on the gear to see if it will help the gear engage when not lined up perfect. We tried starting the car probably 20 times before leaving and it started just fine. Like I said why in the past when we were having the problem did jumping the car take care of it?? I will mention that with a volt meter hookup to the battery while cranking the voltmeter will drop to 8.3 volts.
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 8th-July-2012, 10:16 PM   #2
Philip
 
Philip's Avatar

Title: Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Marana AZ 85653
Nova(s): 1977
Posts: 10,221
what bolts are you using to mount it? There are special bolts that are knurled where they fit into the block, there should also be a brace on the front of the starter to the block.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th-July-2012, 10:36 PM   #3
64Duce

Title: Nova Junior Member
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
what bolts are you using to mount it? There are special bolts that are knurled where they fit into the block, there should also be a brace on the front of the starter to the block.
I did notice that only one of the bolts was knurled and there is not a brace on the front. For some reason I didn't think the brace was necessary. What will the knurling do one the bolts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th-July-2012, 10:53 PM   #4
Philip
 
Philip's Avatar

Title: Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Marana AZ 85653
Nova(s): 1977
Posts: 10,221
The knurled area fits tight inside the unthreaded part of the bolt hole in the block. A regular bolt will not have any support in that area and can move around.
Except for the gear reduction starters the brace should be used.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th-July-2012, 11:06 PM   #5
64Duce

Title: Nova Junior Member
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
The knurled area fits tight inside the unthreaded part of the bolt hole in the block. A regular bolt will not have any support in that area and can move around.
Except for the gear reduction starters the brace should be used.
Not a hundred percent sure if my starter is gear reduction, but I would bet so because when I check the gap and turn the ignition over with just the signal hooked up the gear with stay in the flex plate until I turn it over by hand, or the car is actually started
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th-July-2012, 11:10 PM   #6
Vizuet
 
Vizuet's Avatar

Title: Nova Newbie
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Arizona, Tucson
Nova(s): 1970 TPI
Posts: 8
Exclamation Just something to consider...

If jump starting cranks the starter normally every time, i would have the battery tested first. Second are your battery cables ok with no corrosion or loose terminals? The battery can have full voltage, but if the cables are not tight or properly grounded, once the starter gear drive engages, the high amp draw will loose required voltage and amperage therefore only kicking gear out but not turning engine over. Also where is the battery located, in the trunk? engine bay? because length and gauge of cables will also make a difference. If any corrosion exist, replace cables.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 02:12 AM   #7
Philip
 
Philip's Avatar

Title: Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Marana AZ 85653
Nova(s): 1977
Posts: 10,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 64Duce View Post
Not a hundred percent sure if my starter is gear reduction, but I would bet so because when I check the gap and turn the ignition over with just the signal hooked up the gear with stay in the flex plate until I turn it over by hand, or the car is actually started
Then it needs a shim, the tooth engagement is too deep. If the gear is inline with the center of the electric motor shaft it is not a gear reduction starter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizuet View Post
If jump starting cranks the starter normally every time, i would have the battery tested first. Second are your battery cables ok with no corrosion or loose terminals? The battery can have full voltage, but if the cables are not tight or properly grounded, once the starter gear drive engages, the high amp draw will loose required voltage and amperage therefore only kicking gear out but not turning engine over. Also where is the battery located, in the trunk? engine bay? because length and gauge of cables will also make a difference. If any corrosion exist, replace cables.
The ground for the starter is the mounting area, it should not have paint or corrosion on the block or the starter to make a good connection.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 08:21 AM   #8
64Duce

Title: Nova Junior Member
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
Then it needs a shim, the tooth engagement is too deep. If the gear is inline with the center of the electric motor shaft it is not a gear reduction starter.

The gap is too big even without a shim. I've tried every shim from .020-.060 and the teeth on the gear hit the teeth on the flex plate.

The ground for the starter is the mounting area, it should not have paint or corrosion on the block or the starter to make a good connection.
Yup and the block free of paint where the starter mounts, plus just to make sure we ran a ground from the battery to a mounting bolt on the starter to see if that was the problem and it eventually failed and would just click.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 10:02 AM   #9
64Duce

Title: Nova Junior Member
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
Then it needs a shim, the tooth engagement is too deep. If the gear is inline with the center of the electric motor shaft it is not a gear reduction starter.

The ground for the starter is the mounting area, it should not have paint or corrosion on the block or the starter to make a good connection.
The gap is too big even without a shim. I've tried every shim from .020-.060 and the teeth on the gear hit the teeth on the flex plate.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 10:13 AM   #10
carcrazy615
 
carcrazy615's Avatar

Title: Nova Guru
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: madison tn
Nova(s): 63ss convertible 64 4-doo
Posts: 2,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by 64Duce View Post
Here was my original post/problem
http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums...d.php?t=201746

Well me and a buddy went over and worked on the car today. We crawled under the car and found out that when we hear the "clicking" sound it's just the starter gear teeth hitting the teeth on the flexplate. We pulled the starter and it had a .040 shim in and the the gap was too large, we tried the .020 shim and the gap was still too big and the starter would not meshing with the flexplate (click) once out of roughly 20 starts. Well we pulled the .020 shim because the gap was still to big and reinstalled the starter w/o a shim. The starter would mesh great and then not mesh after a bunch of tries. So all in all the problem is that the starter gear is not meshing with the teeth of the flexplate, I pulled the starter once again and ran the part number on the starter. The starter is for a GM 1994-2000 pickup/tahoe, I asked the parts store if it mentioned what flexplate tooth count it was for and it was a 168. I looked for a part number on my flexplate to see what tooth count it was and we couldn't find one, so we just counted and it was a 168. So to make a long story short everything is working great, but for some reason the teeth wont mesh sometimes. If you turn the motor over by hand it will go ahead and engage, assuming because the flexplate has rotated to a different spot. I was thinking the flexplate could be out of round, but why would jumping the car in the past start the car right up when having the problem. We took the starter off and took a dremel tool to the teeth on thes starter and put a slight bevel on the gear to see if it will help the gear engage when not lined up perfect. We tried starting the car probably 20 times before leaving and it started just fine. Like I said why in the past when we were having the problem did jumping the car take care of it?? I will mention that with a volt meter hookup to the battery while cranking the voltmeter will drop to 8.3 volts.
The starter gear is pushed into the flywheel by a electric magnet which is the starter solinoid. With two batteries you may have more power going to it and that would make it push harder.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 11:16 AM   #11
MBZTECH
 
MBZTECH's Avatar

Title: Nova Guru
iTrader: (7)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Down So Cal way
Nova(s): 1971 SS L48 383
Posts: 1,909
Cool

8.3 voltage is to low it shouldn't drop below 9.6 Also turn the motor over by hand to inspect all the ring gear teeth possibly there are a couple damaged ones. RICK

Last edited by MBZTECH; 9th-July-2012 at 01:01 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 12:43 PM   #12
Ashman101
 
Ashman101's Avatar

Title: Nova Guru
iTrader: (1)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winnipeg,MB Can
Nova(s): 1967 Pontiac Acadian
Posts: 760
What style of starter are you using?

I went thru hell with starters and flywheels crapping out until I swapped styles.
Not a single issue since.
Went from the typical gm style on the right to the powermast unit on the left.
[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
'67 Acadian
388sbc 500+ hp/tq
3,048 lbs w/ 10 pt cage & all steel body

Don't choke on my exhaust!
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 02:06 PM   #13
64Duce

Title: Nova Junior Member
iTrader: (0)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazy615 View Post
The starter gear is pushed into the flywheel by a electric magnet which is the starter solinoid. With two batteries you may have more power going to it and that would make it push harder.
That's exactly what I was thinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBZTECH View Post
8.3 voltage is to low it shouldn't drop below 9.6 Also turn the motor over by hand to inspect all the ring gear teeth possibly there are a couple damaged ones. RICK
I looked at all the teeth and they looked great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashman101 View Post
What style of starter are you using?

I went thru hell with starters and flywheels crapping out until I swapped styles.
Not a single issue since.
Went from the typical gm style on the right to the powermast unit on the left.
[IMG][/IMG]
I definetly have the original gm style starter, what kind of problems were you having?
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 02:19 PM   #14
MBZTECH
 
MBZTECH's Avatar

Title: Nova Guru
iTrader: (7)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Down So Cal way
Nova(s): 1971 SS L48 383
Posts: 1,909
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64duce View Post
here was my original post/problem
http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums...d.php?t=201746

well me and a buddy went over and worked on the car today. We crawled under the car and found out that when we hear the "clicking" sound it's just the starter gear teeth hitting the teeth on the flexplate. We pulled the starter and it had a .040 shim in and the the gap was too large, we tried the .020 shim and the gap was still too big and the starter would not meshing with the flexplate (click) once out of roughly 20 starts. Well we pulled the .020 shim because the gap was still to big and reinstalled the starter w/o a shim. The starter would mesh great and then not mesh after a bunch of tries. So all in all the problem is that the starter gear is not meshing with the teeth of the flexplate, i pulled the starter once again and ran the part number on the starter. The starter is for a gm 1994-2000 pickup/tahoe, i asked the parts store if it mentioned what flexplate tooth count it was for and it was a 168. I looked for a part number on my flexplate to see what tooth count it was and we couldn't find one, so we just counted and it was a 168. So to make a long story short everything is working great, but for some reason the teeth wont mesh sometimes. If you turn the motor over by hand it will go ahead and engage, assuming because the flexplate has rotated to a different spot. I was thinking the flexplate could be out of round, but why would jumping the car in the past start the car right up when having the problem. We took the starter off and took a dremel tool to the teeth on thes starter and put a slight bevel on the gear to see if it will help the gear engage when not lined up perfect. We tried starting the car probably 20 times before leaving and it started just fine. Like i said why in the past when we were having the problem did jumping the car take care of it?? I will mention that with a volt meter hookup to the battery while cranking the voltmeter will drop to 8.3 volts.
8.3 volts is to loow shouldn't go below 9.6 volts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th-July-2012, 03:12 PM   #15
Ashman101
 
Ashman101's Avatar

Title: Nova Guru
iTrader: (1)
Status: Offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winnipeg,MB Can
Nova(s): 1967 Pontiac Acadian
Posts: 760
I definetly have the original gm style starter, what kind of problems were you having?[/QUOTE]
It looked like it lined up fine when bolted in. Turned it over and it would work fine for a few starts. Then it began to grind or a combo of grinding and grabbing enough to turn it over.
Went thru 3 of the same gm style starter and chewed a flywheel.


With my header clearances, it made it difficult to fit any other tyle of starter.
The Powermaster unit I'm using can be clocked 360 degrees for clearance.

Turns over beautiful now.
__________________
'67 Acadian
388sbc 500+ hp/tq
3,048 lbs w/ 10 pt cage & all steel body

Don't choke on my exhaust!
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
flexplate / starter problems 67bob Drivetrain & Performance 17 25th-March-2011 07:16 PM
flexplate starter gear gap orange70 Drivetrain & Performance 5 11th-May-2010 09:01 PM
my starter and, or flexplate got me stumped yeah baby Drivetrain & Performance 11 12th-March-2010 02:21 PM
Starter/Flexplate Problems novaboy009 Drivetrain & Performance 86 18th-September-2008 05:13 PM
starter ate the flexplate, sbc flexplate replacement questions burningsquirrels Drivetrain & Performance 17 6th-November-2007 07:08 AM


Site best viewed set to 1024 x 768.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:13 AM.

Custom Designed for Steve's Nova Site by: vBSkinworks

 
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Lt

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.