7qt. deep sump oil pan not reading correct with factory dipstick? - Chevy Nova Forum
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Old 12th-January-2011, 08:06 AM   #1
tehdrizzle
 
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7qt. deep sump oil pan not reading correct with factory dipstick?

I went to take a look at a motor that a local guy had recently built. I didn't see receipts for the internal parts, the only thing that I could verify were the rocker arms, intake, fuel pump, and starter. He was able to fire it up with no issue and it sounded really good and strong. However my concern is when checking the oil level. It was about 1 qt. low and he stated that since the dipstick he was using came from a stock 63 Impala sbc and that this motor has a 7qt deep sump kickout oil pan that is normal and I would have to get a different dipstick. The oil looked good and didn't smell burnt or anything. I'm just looking to see if this is accurate or if I should pass on this deal. Here are the specs of the motor:

-GM 2 piece rear main seal block bored .40 over and converted to accept roller cam
-TRW forged flat top pistons
-GM powdered metal connecting rods
-GM forged steel crankshaft
-Pro Comp aluminum heads with 165cc intake runner, 2.02" intake valves, 1.60" exhaust valves, and 64cc compustion chamber
-Chromoly piston rings
-Chromoly pushrods
-Comp 1.52 ratio roller tip rockers
-GM LT4 hot cam
-GM roller lifters with dog bones
-Edelbrock Performer intake
-stock GM 350sbc fuel pump
-Summit Racing long nose high flow aluminum water pump
-Summit Racing 7qt. deep sump oil pan
-Mallory 85 series HEI distributor
-Rebuilt stock 350sbc starter

Any opinions are greatly appreciated on this deal.

Thanks,
-Paul
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Old 12th-January-2011, 10:04 AM   #2
The Big Al
 
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What happened to this?


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Old 12th-January-2011, 10:06 AM   #3
veno
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdrizzle View Post
I went to take a look at a motor that a local guy had recently built. I didn't see receipts for the internal parts, the only thing that I could verify were the rocker arms, intake, fuel pump, and starter. He was able to fire it up with no issue and it sounded really good and strong. However my concern is when checking the oil level. It was about 1 qt. low and he stated that since the dipstick he was using came from a stock 63 Impala sbc and that this motor has a 7qt deep sump kickout oil pan that is normal and I would have to get a different dipstick. The oil looked good and didn't smell burnt or anything. I'm just looking to see if this is accurate or if I should pass on this deal. Here are the specs of the motor:

-GM 2 piece rear main seal block bored .40 over and converted to accept roller cam
-TRW forged flat top pistons
-GM powdered metal connecting rods
-GM forged steel crankshaft
-Pro Comp aluminum heads with 165cc intake runner, 2.02" intake valves, 1.60" exhaust valves, and 64cc compustion chamber
-Chromoly piston rings
-Chromoly pushrods
-Comp 1.52 ratio roller tip rockers
-GM LT4 hot cam
-GM roller lifters with dog bones
-Edelbrock Performer intake
-stock GM 350sbc fuel pump
-Summit Racing long nose high flow aluminum water pump
-Summit Racing 7qt. deep sump oil pan
-Mallory 85 series HEI distributor
-Rebuilt stock 350sbc starter

Any opinions are greatly appreciated on this deal.

Thanks,
-Paul
Unless I'm off my nut...... a 2 piece rear main seal and stock GM HYD roller cam stuff dont work..

I was not aware TRW still made autoparts....or they are very old VMS75 alloy pistons

as for the dip stick..... the reading is correct.. for 6 quarts of oil.. i quart down is the norm.. the reason we use deep pans is to get the oil farther from the crank.. there by reducing windage..... you can fill the oil pan to the mark on the dip stick if you wish.. but you defeat the reason to have the pan
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Old 12th-January-2011, 10:42 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by veno View Post

I was not aware TRW still made autoparts....or they are very old VMS75 alloy pistons

TRW is still in business, mostly USA Automotive parts supplied to to foreign markets.
http://www.trwaftermarket.com/
And for the record, TRW never made anything, they are a distribution network.
They had parts made and branded with there name.

I have TRW pistons in my 355, technical "Speed pro"

Today (and for sometime) TRW pistons are manufactured by Federal Mogul (Seal Power)


TRW has always been a consolidation and distribution network, they have become mostly obsolete in the USA market. The large Automotive parts chains have mostly eliminated the WD jobber network.


FYI
Al
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Old 12th-January-2011, 10:51 AM   #5
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yeah,,, Speedpro had similar numbering to TRW.... in their piston lines....I thought Speed pro acquired the TRW forging line.... as was in not TRW that supplied GM with all its forged pistons in the 1960's?

so your saying that TRW supplied GM with a forged piston that they got from Federal Mogul?
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:04 AM   #6
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Unless I'm off my nut...... a 2 piece rear main seal and stock GM HYD roller cam stuff dont work..
It has been done using the factory roller cam as long as you use the thrust plate. Have to grind the ears off the thrust plate and it goes on the cam as a spacer, then a regular timing chain(non-roller) works with it.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:05 AM   #7
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First, I would have to say that I am not crazy about using late model factory roller tappets and accessories in an older block, but thats just me.

Al I think TRW used to make a lot of pistons, untill they were bought by Federal Mogul. A short time later FM bought Sealed Power, and a bunch of other companies including Fel Pro, and started combining them.

My understanding was TRW supplied about all of the "cheap" forged pistons back in 60s and 70s and even into the 80s. Even the GM forged stuff says TRW on it.

TRW supplied a lot of pistons to Sealed Power and others, some machined some not.

I think about all of the combined pistons that FM sells now for the general aftermarket, except for a couple of numbers come from either India or Italy, unless they rebox Silvolite stuff from Mexico.


I may be wrong Al, but I think TRW was the basic forging company for themselves, Speed Pro, and others.

TRW still has a steering gear manufacturing facility here in Lafayette. They just built a new plant.

Last edited by stock z/28; 12th-January-2011 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:06 AM   #8
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It has been done using the factory roller cam as long as you use the thrust plate. Have to grind the ears off the thrust plate and it goes on the cam as a spacer, then a regular timing chain(non-roller) works with it.
with factory dog bones
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:11 AM   #9
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with factory dog bones
There was a guy selling info on Ebay to convert the factory block over using the spider(I think that is the right name) and factory dog bones. Some people do this, but not a route I have done. I just spend the extra money and do the retrofit valvetrain.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:11 AM   #10
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What happened to this?


That was a pic that I used just for reference since the motor that this guy has looks identical and was trying to get opinions on the color to paint it. Sorry for the confusion on that one.

So for the price of $2650 should I jump on this one after hearing it run? This thing has no leaks from what I saw and I went over the thing with a fine tooth comb to search for them. It looks like the oil pan and timing cover are sealed water tight! He did say that the pistons were lightly used, how lightly I’m not sure, and I know it’s only as good as his word, but he said they came from a “street” motor even though that could mean a light street motor or something that was pounded on.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:11 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by sbc1320 View Post
It has been done using the factory roller cam as long as you use the thrust plate. Have to grind the ears off the thrust plate and it goes on the cam as a spacer, then a regular timing chain(non-roller) works with it.
I think if you are using a GM roller cam you will have to use a roller timming set with the offset and the smaller bolt pattern.


The main thing I dislike is grinding and drilling/tapping the lifter valley for the retention components. I have seen a lot of blocks crack in these areas.

I wont really do these modifications to an old block, actual roller blocks are too easy to find.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:19 AM   #12
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I think if you are using a GM roller cam you will have to use a roller timming set with the offset and the smaller bolt pattern.


The main thing I dislike is grinding and drilling/tapping the lifter valley for the retention components. I have seen a lot of blocks crack in these areas.

I wont really do these modifications to an old block, actual roller blocks are too easy to find.
I agree, just posting since the guy said it was factory roller on a 2 piece rear main. Never know what some people do unless you tear it apart to verify it.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:23 AM   #13
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I think if you are using a GM roller cam you will have to use a roller timming set with the offset and the smaller bolt pattern.
I stand corrected, then just use the retainer(thrust plate) as a spacer like I mentioned earlier.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:43 AM   #14
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I agree, just posting since the guy said it was factory roller on a 2 piece rear main. Never know what some people do unless you tear it apart to verify it.
I agree, and I certainly wasn't try to imply that you had an opinion on the issue.

Another thing that is pretty important if you are going to do this is using a cam button and a very solid timming cover.

If the only mods required to do this were in the timming chain area I wouldnt be so negative about it, but so many small blocks crack in the area that must be ground out that in my opinion its just too much risk when a roller block is available so cheap and easily.
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Old 12th-January-2011, 11:45 AM   #15
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So would you guys get the engine at $2650 with all parts listed above or pass?
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