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flexplate bolts

10K views 52 replies 14 participants last post by  D-Man 
#1 ·
I have a stupid sounding question to me but I can't get any answers from people that are the same, like most questions..LOL!!
I have ARP 12point bolts for my sfi flexplate to mount it to my crank flange. My question was should I use locktite on them and if so what color? Also I was tols by a few to not use it and to get some star washers, the ones with the teeth that bite into metal, and use them so that they don't backout, and others tell me to use nothing and just torque them down to 85 in a crisscross pattern. So which is correct?
thanks!!
 
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#40 · (Edited)
Hello Paul.. Now that I am done poking fun.. and we have solved the Immigration problems and figured out the differences between north from south....


In case you missed it post #10

factory used star washers, out side star... torque to 65ftlbs... if you wish to add Blue locktite.... thats your call....
Hello Jeff...

Just curious.. this statement

Hello,
One thing I might add is that a lot of crankshafts that use 1 piece rear main seals can be damaged or possibly destroyed by distortion around the bolt hole due to improper fastener torquing.

Good Luck

Jeff
have you done a run out reading on this....

The reason I ask is we place so much value on torque plate honing for round cylinder bores with a Torque value of 65ftlbs, yet if the 1PC seal will yield the same distortions as a cylinder bore.... is that not a place where a common leak would present its self just by applying the same torque values as the cylinder bores?

given the distortion of applying a torque value and since the outer 1/3 of the bolt hole circumfrence is in such close proximity to the edge of the seal flange would it not present its self in the same pattern as a cylinder bore only opposite? a outward projection rather than a inward projection?
 
#16 ·
Thanks guys I appreciate it!!! I am reinstalling my tranny and I left all the bolts at my broinlaws shop over and hour away so I just went out an bought all new ones..Thanks!!
now I just need to find the right ubolts for the driveshaft in back..The 1310r ujoints are wierd to find ones that fit...
 
#18 ·
Does the instructions say why? Sometimes adding a substance to the threads changes torque to stretch.

In all my 22 years at Roush we always used blue (removable) Loctite on flywheel and clutch cover bolts.

Statistically, just because one person never has a problem, doesn't mean that everyone will never have a problem.
 
#20 ·
I would never second guess ARP http://www.arp-bolts.com/

Fasteners and metallurgy is there business and only business. They excel in this area. They have done a lot more studies and have a high quality product than what you would find in a production standard fasteners.

I would follow their instructions to the letter.

I also have there flex-plate bolts on my engine and installed buy their instructions. I can promise you they have been tested!



Al
 
#21 ·
Im not trying to argue here, i can't even remember if i put loctite or not or if i have arp bolts or not on my flexplate. BUT, is the flexplate bolt that critical that it bolt torque is really going to be affected by loctite? I understand 60 to 65 so it doesn't come loose and don't want to strip the threads. Its like converter bolts, as long as they hold the converter to the flexplate and don't come loose, or even oilpan bolts, as long as they hold the pan up.
 
#22 ·
I'll say this..... GM to my knowledge never used any thread locker on any Flywheel, or Flexplate.... including some of th most famous RPO codes...

I have never used any thread locker on any of the bolts, nor has any of my friends....that I know about...

I figure the engineers at GM (when figuring this out) saw no need.... and to this day... even in the most radical of factory offerings.. still to not use a thread locker on fly/flex bolts....

JMO
 
#24 ·
Stock flex plate bolts usually have "star" washers under them to prevent vibrating loose. In racing applications, this may not be enough. That's why we would always make sure it wouldn't come loose with blue Loctite, but we could still remove the bolt.

If you install it while still wet, it acts like a lube. You have to torque it before it sets up or your torque wrench will click too soon.

I agree that ARP directions should be followed. I just wanted to know why they didn't recommend Thread locker. I'm guessing because the proper usage is difficult to control and improper use may result in insufficient clamping force, they decided it's not worth the chance.

Note also that ARP fasteners may even have different torque spec than stock, so always refer to the ARP sheet for torque spec.
 
#25 ·
I've done quite a few tranny and clutch jobs over the years.:yes: After trying to keep the flexplate/flywheel from turning and trying to get an accurate torque on the bolts..:rolleyes:...and getting frustrated..:mad:..I started just using the impact to put them in.:yes: They are not a torque-sensitive scenario like a rod bolt, cylinder head bolt/stud, main bolt/stud, etc.:no: so as long as they are tight enough that they DON'T come loose..no prob... Same goes for the harmonic balancer bolt.

There has been a few applications where I DID use some Loc-tite red.:yes: Typically when using aluminum flywheels because of the different expansion rate of the different metals I figured it was good insurance. I'm not too worried about when it comes time to take them out.....I've got a MEAN impact!!!:devil::yes:
 
#26 · (Edited)
A flywheel bolt isn't critical until it fails. Ask Kev.
Using an impact, especially a mean on can fatigue and yield the bolt.
I don't suppose you read my post about bolts being springs and all that.

A bolt is designed to stretch a little bit. The threads are basically an incline wedge wrapped around in a circle. Rotating the bolt X number of turns stretches the bolt which applies clamping force.

Bolt makers figure out how much torque is required to stretch the bolt the proper amount.
Hammering the bolt with an impact until it stops turning probably exceeds the stretch and if repeated enough times, will eventually fail the bolt.
This may not happen until long after it leaves your garage and you may never know that.

There is a flywheel holding tool that allows you to keep the flywheel from turning so you can properly torque the bolts.

I might add that if you do the same impact installation with clutch cover bolts, you can distort the cover. These should be hand torqued in a criss-cross pattern in steps.

Flywheels and clutches are more complicated than most mechanics realize.

I've spent many hours with clutch engineers and it's mind boggling how much there is to them.

If you are drag racing a manual trans car, the difference between a good clutch installation and a hammer job can make a real difference in starting line efficiency.
Again, I've spent many hours with clutch engineers at the drag strip doing clutch development testing. We cringe when we hear about people impact wrenching clutches on. Believe me, it's nothing to brag about.
 
#29 ·
Impacts must be a Texas thing. Most of the guys here are from east Texas and the only tools they seem to use are the hammer and impact. Lot's of broken parts, cross threaded or stripped threads.

I guess what I'm saying is if a bolt requires 65 ft/lbs and you use a 200 ft/lb impact what's the technical benefit other than it's faster than doing it carefully?
 
#30 · (Edited)
Yep us *******, east texas boys are purdy dumb... seeing how we the only state in the union that can withdraw from the UNION, and then dived in to five separate nations.... build the astrodome, launch and control space ships, second largest port in the nation, produce a few presidents, have the largest medical center in the USA(houston), the #1 cancer research center in the USA(MD Anderson).. now that the recession is here I see all manor of out of state plates here looking for work....

yeppers, just a bunch of dumb hillbillies..

I dont know what all us dumb Hillbillies would have done if it were not for Smart Yankees telling us how to build, research, farm, and correct all the stupid things we do down here...

But your right.. a Torque wrench and a locktite.... use it on everything...

EDIT.. I wish I had a Nickel for every time I heard... "Thats not how we do up in..." and the reason your down here working is?
 
#32 ·
Seems simple rule is in order here!



Living in the South!
You will find smiling faces and people willing to help.

You will learn what the true meaning of what people are minorities and what people are not.

problems & warning:
There is one standing Simple rule: Move your *** out!


You come here and expect rights that you find in "UNIONS" Your not going to like the response.
Ref: Simple rule

If you don't like they way people live in the south, live with it, don't try to change it. REF: Simple rule.

If you expect things to happen ASAP. REF: Simple rule.

If you don't like grits, thats OK. If you make funny faces or comments about it. REF: Simple rule

We don't give a dam how you do it up north! Never have, never will. Ref: Simple rule

ICE TEA: same rule as Grits!

People will make fun of how you talk. Don't return the favor! REF: Simple rule.

Warning, don't do stupid things to woman in the south. Odds are they can kick your *** or just shoot you in the balls. Killing you is considered mercy!

ASSUME NOTHING! ASK First!

Also, when you buy or rent a house. You have domain of that house and yard. Not the dam neighborhood! What the man next door or down the street does or does not do is of no concern of yours. As he will not tell you how to live and best not tell him. If you do, ref: Simple rule. As a man in the south believes in Mercy!

Learn to love guns. Once your educated in the minority class you should not need any further instruction.
If you hate guns. REF: Simple rule

Other than these few rules.

Welcome.
You will live happy and prosper!
We have the best lady's on earth, we have the best food, we have the best weather, we work for a living, we have the fastest Cars, Boats & Airplanes.
WE KNOW HOW TO PARTY!

WE NEVER DID FORGET!

Al

O, yes.
You know you are accepted when they give you a drink in a Mason jar. If you can drink it. And stand up. You then become a DAM Yankee! (Dam Yankee is one who will not return) Yankee is one who is going back and does not know it.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Ok, so if I understand the arguments correctly that using an impact on the flywheel is ok because:

  • Using an Impact is ok because we have more jobs than Michigan.
  • Using an Impact is ok because GM doesn't use Loctite.
  • Using an Impact is ok because Yankees explain things too much.
  • Using an Impact is ok because I don't have a flywheel tool.
  • Using an Impact is ok because it's louder than that wimpy click wrench.
  • Using an impact is ok because we have Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and you don't.
 
#35 ·
So in the south, do they use air tools in the bedroom? (I did not just go there did I?) :D

And who needs loctite when you have duct tape? As Tim Allen used to say..."I don't know what this stuff is for, but apparently, if you can't fix it...duct it!"

If all those people down in Texas are so brilliant, you would think thew would have a way to build "the fence". lol :clap:
 
#38 ·
If all those people down in Texas are so brilliant, you would think thew would have a way to build "the fence". lol :clap:
and its AZ and CAlI.. that seem to have a bigger problem than Texas....

I am not much of a fan of the Iron curtain.... Kinda leaves me COLD ya know?

you could always volunteer for the Minute men and spend some time on the border IF you really think its THAT big of a problem!:stir:


Texas is not failing south America people... south America is failing them...
 
#39 ·
Hello,


I guess I dont have an opinion on geographical regions vs intelligence. I have seen what I thought were very bright people from every where.


As far as the flywheel bolts go, Im dont think that a lot of the later Chev engines used a lock washer (the ones with the 9/16 head?).



I have to admit that I like loctite on some fasteners, flywheel bolts are one of them, as well as oil pump bolts, cam bolts, ring gear bolts etc.. It may not be reguired, but its not given me any issues.


One thing I might add is that a lot of crankshafts that use 1 piece rear main seals can be damaged or possibly destroyed by distortion around the bolt hole due to improper fastener torquing.


I never use lock washers on aluminum flywheels. Sometimes I spotface the the flywheel bolt hole to a specific diameter and depth and use a special flat washer, and I always use Loctite on the bolts


Good Luck

Jeff
 
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