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Researching for overdrive transmission options

5K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  gsjimmy 
#1 ·
Well I have been driving my 64' Chevy II to work for the last few weeks and the powerglide has been starting to wear me down trying to drive highway speeds. The car has a 250ci 6 cylinder. I am trying to be resourceful as I don't have a lot of money to use. I have a 700-r4 from a previous project but I am unsure of how compatible it will be with the 6 cylinder(e.g. Flywheel, starter, tv cable, driveshaft). So if anybody has any insight on the best path to take please let me know
 
#2 ·
I believe the 250 has the same bolt pattern for the bell housing as the small block. So make sure the 700 you have came out of a V8 car and not a V6 and you are most of the way there.

The TV cable is an easily had aftermarket product and can be had for not much money.

Drive shaft? Think you will need a diff length. JR
 
#7 ·
Are you telling me that I could have a 5 speed with overdrive bolt into the nova (ok, maybe not bolt right in but...) from an s10? Do you have a thread on this, or any info? I would seriously consider this route. Like Joe my glide kills me everywhere I go, and its bolted to a tired 194:eek:

Every option I seem to research has either a direct final or a lot of $$$ for the overdrive feature!
 
#6 ·
Trans

200-R4 from a Monte Carlo, within 1/4 inch of the PG, same d-shaft (different yoke than a '63 10 spline). Will take less power to run than the 7004R and the OD feature has a little better ratio.

You may need to add a cooler with this if your Nova is still using the air cooled PG. THe transmount might have to be fabbed a little for the slightly different mounting bracket.

The 5 speed is a great way to do this as well, just gonna take more scrounging for the 4.3 bell, pedels.
 
#11 ·
I donno dude! I just took a quick glance, but it doesnt look like thats the bell housing bolt pattern. Maybe the bell housings are removable, but it doesnt look interchangeable. I actually dont think I would mind an S10 5speed....But bolt-on-ability is a factor for me. I bet we could pull one from ecology (junk yard) for cheap if it would work! I bet cheaper than that!
 
#12 ·
Camaro Trans

The Camaro/Fireturd T-5 is clocked by 18* to fit the F-body chassis. Maybe the Mustang unit (World Class T-5) would work, maybe. Looked into that at one point for a G-body swap.

The best bet is to source an S series truck or a 1500 P/U truck for the straight T-5. This will get the correct bellhousing as well. Need to grab the linkage too. It is hydrolic. You might be able to get an H-body cable operated linkage to work on it too. But the Monza/Vega stuff is getting tough to find as well.

Don't forget the racecar stuff. Those guys have been swapping manuals into chassis cars for a long time, and they are doing it for cheap. But any T-5 is not going to take the abuse that a Super T-10 or Muncie 4 speed will. Don't beat on it too much or you'll have to break out the LPC's (leather personell carriers).
 
#13 ·
The Camaro/Fireturd T-5 is clocked by 18* to fit the F-body chassis. Maybe the Mustang unit (World Class T-5) would work, maybe. Looked into that at one point for a G-body swap.

The best bet is to source an S series truck or a 1500 P/U truck for the straight T-5. This will get the correct bellhousing as well. Need to grab the linkage too. It is hydrolic. You might be able to get an H-body cable operated linkage to work on it too. But the Monza/Vega stuff is getting tough to find as well.

Don't forget the racecar stuff. Those guys have been swapping manuals into chassis cars for a long time, and they are doing it for cheap. But any T-5 is not going to take the abuse that a Super T-10 or Muncie 4 speed will. Don't beat on it too much or you'll have to break out the LPC's (leather personell carriers).
I wonder, is there any interchange guide to cross reference the fitment of different GM trans to different motors, and lengths, in/out splines, ect? You know, for all of us dummies who dont know all the parts that are out there and what they can do? You talk about T-5's and what not, WTH is that??? Im going to google it right now, but I about only know what a muncie is....T-10 Ive heard of, but its a mystery to me...Where would one go to get all the low down on the down low?
 
#14 ·
Trans info

Found most of your questions on-line a long time ago. I swapped my Turbo 350 (M38) in my '69 GS California to a M-20 wide ratio 4 speed. This is the aluminum cased trans from the 60's/70's that was found in a lot of GTO's, Super Sports, 442's, ect. External linkage and fairly strong. The T-10 Borg Warner came out in '59, and was replaced by the muncie series (M20, M21 and M22 HD). This trans had fragile mounting ears on the case. The last 4 speed that was any good for beating on was the Super T-10 from '73/74 until '79. The the General wimped out and used a aluminum cased Saginaw 4 speed (junk).

The T-5 is what General Motors called its 5 speed OD trans. Used in the 1500, S series, F-body and Mustang (for you Furd guys). Corvette got a better ($$$) 4+3 OD Trans. In the F-body, the bell is clocked by 18* to the pass side of the car, so you need a different bell.

The 700 4R is the longest trans., The PG, and TH350 are 27 3/4 long, the muncie & T-10 are 27 5/8 long (same D-shaft). I believe that the T-5 series is around 30 inches long so a different D-Shaft is needed.

Also, the '62/'63 air cooled PG trans has a wierd 10 spline yoke. You will need a 27 spline for what ever trans you end up using. My budget would say to get a TH2004r and yoke and be done with it. minimual problems going this way, only uses about 35 hp to run it. Gas milage should go up into the 20's on an I-6 Nova and it won't have to work as hard to get there.

Also think about a stand along FI unit. Hot Rod mag did this using a K-Car FI unit. Better metering than that old 1bbl on the Nova.
 
#17 ·
Found most of your questions on-line a long time ago. I swapped my Turbo 350 (M38) in my '69 GS California to a M-20 wide ratio 4 speed. This is the aluminum cased trans from the 60's/70's that was found in a lot of GTO's, Super Sports, 442's, ect. External linkage and fairly strong. The T-10 Borg Warner came out in '59, and was replaced by the muncie series (M20, M21 and M22 HD). This trans had fragile mounting ears on the case. The last 4 speed that was any good for beating on was the Super T-10 from '73/74 until '79. The the General wimped out and used a aluminum cased Saginaw 4 speed (junk).

The T-5 is what General Motors called its 5 speed OD trans. Used in the 1500, S series, F-body and Mustang (for you Furd guys). Corvette got a better ($$$) 4+3 OD Trans. In the F-body, the bell is clocked by 18* to the pass side of the car, so you need a different bell.

The 700 4R is the longest trans., The PG, and TH350 are 27 3/4 long, the muncie & T-10 are 27 5/8 long (same D-shaft). I believe that the T-5 series is around 30 inches long so a different D-Shaft is needed.

Also, the '62/'63 air cooled PG trans has a wierd 10 spline yoke. You will need a 27 spline for what ever trans you end up using. My budget would say to get a TH2004r and yoke and be done with it. minimual problems going this way, only uses about 35 hp to run it. Gas milage should go up into the 20's on an I-6 Nova and it won't have to work as hard to get there.

Also think about a stand along FI unit. Hot Rod mag did this using a K-Car FI unit. Better metering than that old 1bbl on the Nova.
:salute::thumbsup:Well said....

I used a 5 speed out of a 92 S10 with a 2.8 V6. If you don't change the input shaft to a fine spline you will need a special disc from Summit. The crossmember stays in the stock location, but you will have to modify the pad for the mount. With the shifter in the S10 position it clears the bench seat.
Im wondering about the durability of the trans, it was built after all for a truck, but a small engine light light duty one....You need the z bar linkage boss on the block still? Is it a mechanical clutch? Do you have a thread on this? I could ask you a million questions about this...but would rather be able to educate myself a bit before asking your ears off:cool:
 
#16 ·
I used a 5 speed out of a 92 S10 with a 2.8 V6. If you don't change the input shaft to a fine spline you will need a special disc from Summit. The crossmember stays in the stock location, but you will have to modify the pad for the mount. With the shifter in the S10 position it clears the bench seat.
 
#18 ·
T-5

The T-5 (S-10 model) uses a hydrolic slave cylinder at the trans and a reservior at the upper part of the firewall. THere is a metal line that runs between the two for fluid transfer. Operates just like the braking system. This the actuates the clutch fork to disengage the clutch. Be sure to look at a manual trans S-10/S-15 in the yard. THis will make much more sense.

BTW - it's a real bit*h to bleed out the air in this one. Especially at 0* & ice on the underside of the truck! So, if you get this from the junkyard, try not to open up the system if possible.

As far as durability goes, the last T-5 I had had well over 200K on it and was doing just fine. The I-6 won't even bother it at all.

Jim
 
#19 ·
The T-5 (S-10 model) uses a hydrolic slave cylinder at the trans and a reservior at the upper part of the firewall. THere is a metal line that runs between the two for fluid transfer. Operates just like the braking system. This the actuates the clutch fork to disengage the clutch. Be sure to look at a manual trans S-10/S-15 in the yard. THis will make much more sense.

BTW - it's a real bit*h to bleed out the air in this one. Especially at 0* & ice on the underside of the truck! So, if you get this from the junkyard, try not to open up the system if possible.

As far as durability goes, the last T-5 I had had well over 200K on it and was doing just fine. The I-6 won't even bother it at all.

Jim
Jim I may have missed it, but is this tranny the same belhousing design as the SBC/inline...you know the standard Chevy bolt pattern?

Like if I were to yank one of these tomorrow from a junk yard, in theory, could I slap it in? Yea, Id expect to have to modify a few things, I know it wont slap right in, but Im trying to get an idea of what to expect? Im seriously thinking of going this route..Sounds easy and I can keep my bench..AND have a 5 speed OD:)
 
#22 ·
Im only speaking of transmissions in this case. I would NEVER put a modern powerplant in my car...LS1's are soooo cool! But I love the lumpy throaty nasty cam and the rough idle, LS motors are just too modern! Just my cup of tea.

But I wouldnt mind having the 5 speed behind my 250 that I will install....Not at all....Muncies are cool, but my budget is just not that cool! :(
 
#24 ·
5 speed

Rusty - You have the cable operated Monza/Vega bell? With the pedels & cable?

Anyway, the trans does unbolt from the bell, so you may get lucky and have the tapped holes that correspond with the newer T-5. If not, there is a possibility of doing that your self to save some $$$.

Donor car - should come from a 90* V-6 (4.3 or 229). S-10 being the most likely canidate, followed by the 1500 series W/T (work truck). Since this is "only" a stock 250 I-6, any T-5 should work. Just be sure to grab all the parts when you pull it (not the flywheel, different balance). Hopefully the clutch has enough life let in it to get you going.

Good luck with the swap and keep us posted!

Jim
sailors11@fronier.com

'64 AF/X style Nova - 454/TH400
'69 GS California - 455 Stage 1 / TH400 / 3.31 12 bolt - former 4 speed conversion
'76 Vega - Tube chassis conversion in process, BUICK 350 & TH350, 2.91 gears
'82 Grand National Clone - converted to 455/TH400 & 4.10 gears updated to '86 sheetmetal
 
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