H-pipe question

[1slow64]

Does it matter where in the exhuast the H pipe
is installed? Is it better to have it closer to the collectors
or farther down stream? Or does it matter?
Jeff

[Mike Goble]

It matters if you're after the peak performance. Anytime you change areas in your exhaust system you will get reflected waves. The timing of these waves directly affects the performance.

[Pwrtrip75]

H-pipe doesnt do anything but effect the smoothness of the exhaust tone, it equalls them out more to sound smooth. Performance it DOES NOTHING.

An X-pipe on the other hand actually has an effect on the way it scavenges and although the gains are minimal it can help

[Mike Goble]

H-pipe doesnt do anything but effect the smoothness of the exhaust tone, it equalls them out more to sound smooth. Performance it DOES NOTHING.

An X-pipe on the other hand actually has an effect on the way it scavenges and although the gains are minimal it can help

How does it smooth the exhaust tone?

[69LT1Nova]

How does it smooth the exhaust tone?

It balances the two sides of the exhaust system, so the pressure evens out. This eliminates the crackle you get with an independent dual system.

x2 on the X-pipe. Best investment for your bucks.

The tried and true way of finding out where to place an X or H pipe is to take a rattle can of paint (not high temp, just the regular stuff) and spray it on the exhaust right after your headers for a couple of feet. Run the car for a day, then see where the paint bakes off. Where it stops cooking off, that is where you want to run your crossover.

[Mike Goble]

What does the paint line signify? Will the paint line remain in the same place after you install the crossover?

If you used a 1" long h-pipe, would it work almost as well as an x-pipe?

[bowtie0069]

Where it stops cooking off, that is where you want to run your crossover

That used to be a way to determine collector extension length, but I've never heard anyone use it to position a crossover. I put my X-pipe in the spot determined by how much pipe came in the Dr. Gas kit--worked fine for me!

[RustenPaines]

My H crossover is located just past the output shaft of the transmission(350t). I have read a X pipe will give you 5hp. But that is replacing a stock exhaust. If you already have a 2.5 incher it probably won't do anything for you.

[ALLT4]

My H crossover is located just past the output shaft of the transmission(350t).

I just bought a complete Flowmaster kit with an H pipe and that's where they put it. It was in a similar position on my '96 LT4 Corvette stock. Both are only about 2 or three inches wide also.

[veno]

Generally... most people put it out of the way.. behind the first "U" joint to allow trans removal....

In the 70's when the "Cross over pipe" or "balance tube":thumbsup:.. not "H" pipe"(quit changing my slang:D) was first introduced, the general concessis was to be installed 18" behind the collectors. the result was agreed upon that it was fooling the engine into a equal pressure system just beyond the blast wave of the collectors.... In other words. the engine thought is was running open headers due to equal pressure on each side of the engine... a equal pressure wave, just as would be seen if indeed the headers were open to atmosphere.

As far as the X pipe making 5 hp over a balance tube.... well you have to consider all the exhaust system.... would a X pipe make 5 hp on a L6? would it make 5 hp on a 3" system with bullets and a dump? or a 5" system and bullets and dumps?

Marketing is a wonderful thing....... I can make any thing do anything... just ask a number cruncher.... the more fantastic the claim the more likely it will sell, and put a price of 200.00 it.... well it has to work for that price.... right??? dont it??? I mean:

MY X pipe will make 10hp and its 29.95.... would you buy one??? shoot no you would not.... now for 199.95... MY X pipe is revised( got my name stamped on it), the latest in computer enhanced, cad designed(I made a drawing in MS paint), with coated burn proof liners(read coated with oil) decreased back pressure, increased performance, better sound, smoother tones.. every one will wonder what your running...

get my drift????... Marketing ploy.... use your noggin for something but to hold your hair in place... oooorrrr like me.. wear a hat to keep from blinding everyone!:)

[69LT1Nova]

Generally... most people put it out of the way.. behind the first "U" joint to allow trans removal....

In the 70's when the "Cross over pipe" or "balance tube":thumbsup:.. not "H" pipe"(quit changing my slang:D) was first introduced, the general concessis was to be installed 18" behind the collectors. the result was agreed upon that it was fooling the engine into a equal pressure system just beyond the blast wave of the collectors.... In other words. the engine thought is was running open headers due to equal pressure on each side of the engine... a equal pressure wave, just as would be seen if indeed the headers were open to atmosphere.

As far as the X pipe making 5 hp over a balance tube.... well you have to consider all the exhaust system.... would a X pipe make 5 hp on a L6? would it make 5 hp on a 3" system with bullets and a dump? or a 5" system and bullets and dumps?

Marketing is a wonderful thing....... I can make any thing do anything... just ask a number cruncher.... the more fantastic the claim the more likely it will sell, and put a price of 200.00 it.... well it has to work for that price.... right??? dont it??? I mean:

MY X pipe will make 10hp and its 29.95.... would you buy one??? shoot no you would not.... now for 199.95... MY X pipe is revised( got my name stamped on it), the latest in computer enhanced, cad designed(I made a drawing in MS paint), with coated burn proof liners(read coated with oil) decreased back pressure, increased performance, better sound, smoother tones.. every one will wonder what your running...

get my drift????... Marketing ploy.... use your noggin for something but to hold your hair in place... oooorrrr like me.. wear a hat to keep from blinding everyone!:)

LOL! :D

I just had the local muff shop fab my x-pipe up. Did a dang nice job too, and wasn't expensive at all ($40).

The paint burn-off method is supposed to tell you where the exhaust heat dies down. Apparently from what I've read (oh boy, here we go) you want to find where the exhaust cools off to help accelerate the gasses through the system to get the most scavanging of the cylinders possible. Of course, you can just stick it where it fits on the car and save yourself the headache! :)

[1slow64]

thanks fella's Now i'm really confused:eek:. Guess I will just put it where it clears the trans for removal. If I need to run one at all. I am running 3" with turn downs at the axle.

[stinger670]

Generally... most people put it out of the way.. behind the first "U" joint to allow trans removal....

In the 70's when the "Cross over pipe" or "balance tube":thumbsup:.. not "H" pipe"(quit changing my slang:D) was first introduced, the general concessis was to be installed 18" behind the collectors. the result was agreed upon that it was fooling the engine into a equal pressure system just beyond the blast wave of the collectors.... In other words. the engine thought is was running open headers due to equal pressure on each side of the engine... a equal pressure wave, just as would be seen if indeed the headers were open to atmosphere.

As far as the X pipe making 5 hp over a balance tube.... well you have to consider all the exhaust system.... would a X pipe make 5 hp on a L6? would it make 5 hp on a 3" system with bullets and a dump? or a 5" system and bullets and dumps?

Marketing is a wonderful thing....... I can make any thing do anything... just ask a number cruncher.... the more fantastic the claim the more likely it will sell, and put a price of 200.00 it.... well it has to work for that price.... right??? dont it??? I mean:

MY X pipe will make 10hp and its 29.95.... would you buy one??? shoot no you would not.... now for 199.95... MY X pipe is revised( got my name stamped on it), the latest in computer enhanced, cad designed(I made a drawing in MS paint), with coated burn proof liners(read coated with oil) decreased back pressure, increased performance, better sound, smoother tones.. every one will wonder what your running...

get my drift????... Marketing ploy.... use your noggin for something but to hold your hair in place... oooorrrr like me.. wear a hat to keep from blinding everyone!:)

Ahhh crap! Thats what I paid for my Pypes Performance "X pipe" 199.99. I guess I got shanked!!

[Pwrtrip75]

What it (H-PIPE) does is create another chamber for noise to travel to. No exhaust gas flows through it. If you ever seen the inside of some mufflers, theres the clear path where the exhaust flows, then another whole tube just there, its called a buffer, also the more surfaces noise bouces off the more it reduces it. having chambers/crossovers will help with the sound, either the level or the tone, all depends on the size of the tubing and the application.

[Mike Goble]

What it (H-PIPE) does is create another chamber for noise to travel to. No exhaust gas flows through it. If you ever seen the inside of some mufflers, theres the clear path where the exhaust flows, then another whole tube just there, its called a buffer, also the more surfaces noise bouces off the more it reduces it. having chambers/crossovers will help with the sound, either the level or the tone, all depends on the size of the tubing and the application.

No exhaust gas flows through it? That would be wrong. Anytime there is a difference in pressure across it, exhaust gas will flow through it. An H-pipe basically terminates the headpipe or collector at a junction. It allows the exhaust wave to expand into two pipes and creates a reflected wave that goes back up the headpipe, enhancing the secondary scavenging.

[69LT1Nova]

No exhaust gas flows through it? That would be wrong. Anytime there is a difference in pressure across it, exhaust gas will flow through it. An H-pipe basically terminates the headpipe or collector at a junction. It allows the exhaust wave to expand into two pipes and creates a reflected wave that goes back up the headpipe, enhancing the secondary scavenging.

x2! :D :D Snap!!

[Seattle_Mike]

I had to put it about the only place I could...sometimes there just isn't a lot of choices. My system is 3 1/2" oval tubing and used a round H pipe.

http://home.comcast.net/~documike/Exhaust3_400x300.jpg

[my 69 rat]

I had to put it about the only place I could...sometimes there just isn't a lot of choices. My system is 3 1/2" oval tubing and used a round H pipe.

http://home.comcast.net/~documike/Exhaust3_400x300.jpg

Nice setup, but WOW 3 1/2''

[Z-man]

I had to put it about the only place I could...sometimes there just isn't a lot of choices. My system is 3 1/2" oval tubing and used a round H pipe.

http://home.comcast.net/~documike/Exhaust3_400x300.jpg

It sure looks nice but, I am sure that there are a couple of naysayers that will provide you with scientific information that proves oval pipes contribute to dynamic sound waves that will decrease your horse power by dampening the sine wave of your audible output modulation. Oh and that H pipe will definitely cause an adverse reaction the above stated effect as well…..have you checked your hydrocarbon emissions mister?


In all honesty I like what you have done!!!

[tnblkc230wz]

have you checked your hydrocarbon emissions mister?


He is doing his best to warm the planet so I can turn off my furnance, thereby reducing hydrocarbons in the atmosphere and cooling the planet.

[Z-man]

He is doing his best to warm the planet so I can turn off my furnance, thereby reducing hydrocarbons in the atmosphere and cooling the planet.

That is my approach too.....just got to get over the noise of the screaming polar bear and the land lost penguin. But gotta say I love the smell of hydrocarbons in the morning......:devil:

[Pwrtrip75]

No exhaust gas flows through it? That would be wrong. Anytime there is a difference in pressure across it, exhaust gas will flow through it. An H-pipe basically terminates the headpipe or collector at a junction. It allows the exhaust wave to expand into two pipes and creates a reflected wave that goes back up the headpipe, enhancing the secondary scavenging.

So some gas seeps through, not in any way that would effect flow characteristics altering power. Its all for noise.

[veno]

So some gas seeps through, not in any way that would effect flow characteristics altering power. Its all for noise.

I guessed you missed the whole reason for the balance tube I explained.... and the reason for the "X" crossover modfication of the balance tube...

so tell me how would a balance tube not alter flow? please explain your findings on the cross over/balance tube.... and how it has no effect.... or not effect power levels... wheres your data to back up your statements...

[ALLT4]

I finished mine so I thought I'd post it here also because it does have an H pipe. One thing I noticed and never thought about until today creaking my neck under the car. If the H pipe is right after a bend it would seem that it would do a better job at it's intended purpose, and no it's not just for noise. :rolleyes:

Funny but after I got done and went for a drive the car seemed to have more power but maybe that was just because I could lay into it without the open headers screaming at me.

The intermediate pipe and H was built by Flowmaster, I don't weld that good, plus it should have been just a little further forward. If that's where Flowmaster thought it would do the best job, fine with me because I wouldn't have any way of telling the difference in placement.

My little clamps are temporary so don't beat me up about them. Still trying to decide to fully weld or use band clamps. Probably band clamps so I can still get it apart down the road.

http://home.comcast.net/~chiphead6/exhaust/Dsc01231.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~chiphead6/exhaust/Dsc01228.jpg

[tnblkc230wz]

Here is an interesting article http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/exhaust_system_installation/index.html

[veno]

Here is an interesting article http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/exhaust_system_installation/index.html

Thats kinda funny... they compare open headers, to a 2.5 inch system designed for a bbk header system, them mod the system to fit the headers they are using. then compare a custom bent and stepped 3.5 system to a 2.5 inch system.... where is the apples to apples compare?

the better test would to have bent up two 3" systems, one with X one with H...

But, alass advertising dollars go along way when toward the skew. last time I picked up any of the car rag sheets... there was a full page ad for X pipe... of some ones....


the HP gain in the X pipe over the open header..... well thats with in the dynos +or- error factor... I bet if they re ran the test different numbers would come up.... and maybe not the way they needed them to...

[ALLT4]

Nice ad for Magnaflow, the H pipe lost 10 horsepower and about as much torque. I wonder if they did apples to apples like was said what the outcome would have been. I agree these magazines cater to advertisers and the results seemed bent to what they're testing. Face it, 10hp and 8ft lbs of torque can almost be attributed to error.

While I agree an X pipe probably is a better way to go, I don't like the sound, I like old school sound of an H better. The article also contradicts itself a little too, if the H pipe changes the sound how can it be possible nothing else is going through the H? Does the sound only magically know to travel through the H pipe but the gases or any flow doesn't?

[Pwrtrip75]

I guessed you missed the whole reason for the balance tube I explained.... and the reason for the "X" crossover modfication of the balance tube...

so tell me how would a balance tube not alter flow? please explain your findings on the cross over/balance tube.... and how it has no effect.... or not effect power levels... wheres your data to back up your statements...

The world is not flat but im not going to go in to great detail to prove it to you.
The exhaust gasses dont just hang out in the pipes, they are traveling at a speed. The velocity of the gasses depict the direction they flow. Having an H-pipe directly in the middle and running gas across it will actually create a vacuum effect (similar to a venturi) but having them on both sides equals out to nothing ...but sound itself does not have pressure properties so there is no higher pressure or vacuum there. It doent equal out the gas properties....it equals out the SOUND properties. ....Thus having no impact on performance in ANY way. An X is totally different, your changing the flow characteristics.

[veno]

The exhaust gasses dont just hang out in the pipes what does hang out in exhaust pipes?, they are traveling at a speed. even when the engine is shut off?? The velocity of the gasses depict the direction they flow. huh? Having an H-pipe directly in the middle and running gas across it will actually create a vacuum effect(similar to a venturi) but you said exhaust gas was not flowing thought it... a vacuum effect? you mean scavenging.. wow that has to have a effect but having them on both sides equals out to nothing what? there are two of them now? how can a crossover pipe not see pressure? ...but sound itself does not have pressure properties so there is no higher pressure or vacuum there. thats funny sound has no pressure.. lol... a sound pressure wave means what then? It doent equal out the gas properties....it equals out the SOUND properties. WHAT AGAIN??? sound with out pressure does not exist... physically impossible ....Thus having no impact on performance in ANY way. what? once again sound has no impact??? ... tell that to the top fuel guys:rolleyes: An X is totally different, your changing the flow characteristics. wait,,, changing flow with a x pipe, instead of a balance tube? but you said.... there in no flow with a balance tube... a X pipe... that I will grant you.... its a merged effect similar to 360 degree headers.. a balance tube or H pipe is more like 180 degree open headers.

so... a 3" complete system with over the axle pipes. using the DynoMax Bullets... a X pipe will show more HP than a balance tube.... what is the cost per HP if there is any? and is it nessecery to have a X pipe or balance tube in such a application... I mean when its time for bullets you making some big numbers.... and I don't see many h or x pipes on cars fitted with bullets at the track.:eek: generally speaking that is....

[Mike Goble]

The world is not flat but im not going to go in to great detail to prove it to you.
The exhaust gasses dont just hang out in the pipes, they are traveling at a speed. The velocity of the gasses depict the direction they flow. Having an H-pipe directly in the middle and running gas across it will actually create a vacuum effect (similar to a venturi) but having them on both sides equals out to nothing ...but sound itself does not have pressure properties so there is no higher pressure or vacuum there. It doent equal out the gas properties....it equals out the SOUND properties. ....Thus having no impact on performance in ANY way. An X is totally different, your changing the flow characteristics.

If the h-pipe creates a vacuum like a venturi, why wouldn't it create flow like a venturi?
Exhaust gases don't flow evenly in the pipes, they flow in pulses. You will never have two pulses passing the h-pipe at the same time. As each pulse passes the pipe, it creates a pressure differential across the pipe and exhaust gas flows from the high pressure side to the low pressure side.

[danthegeek]

If the h-pipe creates a vacuum like a venturi, why wouldn't it create flow like a venturi?
Exhaust gases don't flow evenly in the pipes, they flow in pulses. You will never have two pulses passing the h-pipe at the same time. As each pulse passes the pipe, it creates a pressure differential across the pipe and exhaust gas flows from the high pressure side to the low pressure side.

Im going with Mike on this one

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m65/danthegeek/popc1.gif

-dan

[Pwrtrip75]

The vacuum effect will effect one side, but since you have the pipe connecting 2 sides, it cancels out to nothing. Veno you are just being ignorant. Sound is a total different matter, in fact it isnt a matter, than gas pressure. The two cant be compared when trying to direct ones path. Hot and cold gasses have different flow characteristics, sound does not. There is no hot or cold sound, sound can not have a positive or negative pressure.

Also the pulses an engine creates are so fast that your vacuum gauge and other gauges do not flicker. Once put into motion you have a steady stream. A properly sized exhaust in its proper power band working like it should will be smooth, all transitions and gasses will flow clean and uninterrupted. When the gas speeds by a hole on the side (opening to the H pipe) it does not stop and turn into it. If the H-pipe had a negative pressure it would draw, but the other side of the H has the same gas speeding by it. The H is a neutral area effecting the gas flow in no way at all. Sound waves however do not take a direct forward path. If I yell at a guy across the street, people to the left and right can hear me and people behind me also. Thus a balance tube is for SOUND only, not gas pressure, and not for performance.

An X is a total different game, your actually running both streams into each other. The path of one is in the direct path of the other. Directly effecting the flow characteristics of each side. Since they cross each other directly, this does effect the scavenging.

[Mike Goble]

The vacuum effect will effect one side, but since you have the pipe connecting 2 sides, it cancels out to nothing. Veno you are just being ignorant. Sound is a total different matter, in fact it isnt a matter, than gas pressure. The two cant be compared when trying to direct ones path. Hot and cold gasses have different flow characteristics, sound does not. There is no hot or cold sound, sound can not have a positive or negative pressure.

Also the pulses an engine creates are so fast that your vacuum gauge and other gauges do not flicker. Once put into motion you have a steady stream. A properly sized exhaust in its proper power band working like it should will be smooth, all transitions and gasses will flow clean and uninterrupted. When the gas speeds by a hole on the side (opening to the H pipe) it does not stop and turn into it. If the H-pipe had a negative pressure it would draw, but the other side of the H has the same gas speeding by it. The H is a neutral area effecting the gas flow in no way at all. Sound waves however do not take a direct forward path. If I yell at a guy across the street, people to the left and right can hear me and people behind me also. Thus a balance tube is for SOUND only, not gas pressure, and not for performance.

An X is a total different game, your actually running both streams into each other. The path of one is in the direct path of the other. Directly effecting the flow characteristics of each side. Since they cross each other directly, this does effect the scavenging.

You're making some huge errors in your assumptions. Just because your vacuum gauge doesn't flicker doesn't mean that the signal is constant. There are lots of things that your gauges can't read, but they are happening anyway. If you hook up an oil pressure gauge directly to your pump outlet, it will be destroyed in a short time because the needle will be fluctuating wildly. There is no device in your exhaust system to store the energy necessary to average out the pulses generated by the exhaust cycle. The same effect works on the intake side. If your theory was correct there would be no effect from changing the length of the intake or exhaust systems. A collector extension would have no effect, an old Mopar cross-ram would work the same as the short versions.

An x-pipe, in its original version designed by Boyd Butler, is a tangentially siamesed junction, not the open plenum copies offered by many of the other later manufacturers. The aperture at the junction is relatively small compared to the tube size, not like the ones you see on eBay.

At what length does the h-pipe become like the x-pipe? Would a 1" H-pipe be almost like an x-pipe?

The scavenging effect doesn't require the gross movement of gas, just the reflection of pressure waves. Anything you do in the exhaust system to change the reflection of pressure waves, like add a junction where the gas can expand, will affect the scavenging and the engine's performance. It's simple physics.

If you want to see some pressure diagrams from an operating exhaust system go to the CAFE foundation.

http://cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php

[Pwrtrip75]

The scavenging effect doesn't require the gross movement of gas, just the reflection of pressure waves.
This is very wrong. You need to decipher the difference between pressure waves and sound waves, they are two totally different animals. Your main goal is to perfect the path of the pressure (gasses), and if you can divert the sound waves without compromising the flow of the gas great. That is what makes a perfect performance muffler.


Im not going to read your airplane tests, totally different scenario. But here. Read this.. taken right from this carcraft ad test that magnaflow did.
"common H-style crossover is good at balancing sound pulses between the two halves, but does little to promote scavenging because the exhaust gases tend to follow the path of least resistance, which is straight through each pipe rather than taking the 90-degree turn through the H-pipe into the other half of the system."
Pretty much exactly what I said in a nutshell.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/exhaust_system_installation/index.html

[Mike Goble]

This is very wrong. You need to decipher the difference between pressure waves and sound waves, they are two totally different animals. Your main goal is to perfect the path of the pressure (gasses), and if you can divert the sound waves without compromising the flow of the gas great. That is what makes a perfect performance muffler.


Im not going to read your airplane tests, totally different scenario. But here. Read this.. taken right from this carcraft ad test that magnaflow did.
"common H-style crossover is good at balancing sound pulses between the two halves, but does little to promote scavenging because the exhaust gases tend to follow the path of least resistance, which is straight through each pipe rather than taking the 90-degree turn through the H-pipe into the other half of the system."
Pretty much exactly what I said in a nutshell.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/exhaust_system_installation/index.html


You're not going to read some of the best info available about pressure waves in an exhaust system yet hang your hat on some sponsored exhaust test? What's different about the exhaust from a Lycoming engine compared to a Ford engine?

Is this complete quote from your flagship article?

For any performance exhaust system, some type of crossover connecting the two sides of a dual exhaust system is important because it acts to balance the two banks of the engine.

Why is this crossover important in a performance exhaust system? It seems like the exhaust wizards who wrote the article are talking out both sides of their mouths...

Sound waves are pressure waves. Maybe you can explain how you hear sounds without varying pressure on your ear drum.

[ALLT4]

I found this quote not taken out of context on the Internet, so it also must be true.

The traditional H-pipe equalizer allows some of the excess pressure to bleed over to the 'quiet side' of the exhaust system, resulting in some low and mid-range torque improvements.

At higher RPM the benefits become diminishing.

That Car Craft article is going to do more harm to people here that want straight answers concerning an X or H than good. They have taken what they want to advertise and skewed their results and wording to benefit the X the most. Never talking about resonance effects of an X pipe.

I'm in full agreement that an X pipe is better for performance but one should really take the time to listen to and read about both the H and the X from several sources before believing a magazine that's paid for by advertising. An H pipe will also have some positive effect on performance but not so much so as with an X, saying otherwise is bad journalism.

[1slow64]

Does this thread get the prize for having the most scientific answers:eek: not to mention the longest answers:turn::eek:
I think i need to smoke a dube before i read some of these answers...JK

[DriveWFO]

If an X pipe is better than an H pipe, would a Z pipe be the best of all?

[veno]

Powertrip75.. My friend... your critical thinking is not on path here... sound is a pressure. It is physically impossible to have a sound with out gas or air movement.... Thats what tickles me about space movies that blow up something in outer space and there is this grand loud blast... In A complete vacuum there is no sound... some sort of gas or air MUST be present in order to have sound. Hot or cold, gas moves the same way, it all depends on what ever is pushing or pulling the gas... The heat of the gas has little to do with movement properties... gas movement is dictated by either what is pushing it or what is pulling it.. You can not separate the sound and exhaust gas movement in an exhaust system... well you can... but then you end up with white noise cancellations or like my 1970 Caprice with single exhaust system, big old bulky muffler and resonator eliminator for sound cancellation. Which is not cancellation at all but mere sound transference to the muffler and resonator... Less I digress here..

Powertrip75... My friend.. We are not going to find any middle ground...

I will try this... a X pipe resembles 360 degree headers, H pipe Resembles 180 degree headers.... If you can get that.. we have common ground. If not then we agree to disagree...

Either way... good luck... we have been here before.

[Pwrtrip75]

If an X pipe is better than an H pipe, would a Z pipe be the best of all?

Actually the dubya pipe works the best, it speedifies the exhaust gasses up to get the best tonification out of the exhaust system.

[DriveWFO]

Actually the dubya pipe works the best, it speedifies the exhaust gasses up to get the best tonification out of the exhaust system.

I can hear him saying that lol :D

[ALLT4]

Taken from Flowmaster's website...

Do I need to install an "H" pipe to my dual exhaust?
Flowmaster strongly recommends using an "H" pipe, commonly known as a "balance tube" on all "true dual" exhaust systems. An "H" pipe equalizes the pressures between both banks of the engine giving a broader and flatter torque curve throughout the rpm range. It also eliminates "back-rap" common on deceleration, and creates a deeper mellower tone both inside and outside of the vehicle.

Is an "X" pipe better than and "H" pipe?
Over the years, Flowmaster's testing of all types of crossovers, including "X pipes", has revealed no substantial benefits over a properly installed "H" pipe on street driven applications. However, in race applications with small cubic inch engines and /or restricted (small bore) carburetors, will respond well to the addition of X pipes, tri-y styled collectors and/or properly designed single exhaust systems.

[Pwrtrip75]

Taken from Flowmaster's website...

Then again Flowmaster makes one of the worst flowing mufflers available, so information they supply I would take as serious as an alien invasion.

[veno]

I would take as serious as an alien invasion.

you've not been watching fox news? aliens are as far north at Alaska.

[tnblkc230wz]

Then again Flowmaster makes one of the worst flowing mufflers available, so information they supply I would take as serious as an alien invasion.

This is true. Their advertisements on Power Block showing a 19 HP gain is humorus at best. They compair thier muffler on a mandrel bent system v.s the competitor on a compression bent system.

All advertisements aside. Which is best depends on application. Ford uses an H-pipe it's performance applications. If an X-piper were really better, I think they would use it. It doesn't cost any more. I would think a very short H-pipe would have a very similar effect to an x-pipe.

Hot and cold gases do transmit pressure waves differently. Also, presurized gases transmit pressure waves differently than unpressurized gases. Much of the noise you hear is from gases expanding when ignited (heated) and contracting (cooling as it runs through the exhaust system). The H-pipe or X-pipe will aid in noise reduction and exhause efficiency not because the gas wants to turn right or left or gently sweep through the x. Remember the engine is a pump. It is pressurizing the exhaust system. Just like in a compressor, if you put a second pipe in (H, X, Y or dubaya), the pressurized air will go to the second pipe if the pressure in the second pipe is less. If not, stays where the pressure is least. Same thing in your exhaust.

The key is to keep the exhaust velocity sufficient to keep exhaust moving away from the head at high speed.

[Seattle_Mike]

It sure looks nice but, I am sure that there are a couple of naysayers that will provide you with scientific information that proves oval pipes contribute to dynamic sound waves that will decrease your horse power by dampening the sine wave of your audible output modulation. Oh and that H pipe will definitely cause an adverse reaction the above stated effect as well…..have you checked your hydrocarbon emissions mister?


In all honesty I like what you have done!!!

Yes, but the dewobulator takes care of all that from what I've been told. :yes:

[veno]

all ya need is a turbonator... http://www.turbonator.com/ and all your dreams of real on demand hp will come true... Less we forget the tornado http://www.tornadoair.com/ then ya got to have splitfires, and Nology wires, and ...

[youngin69nova]

those turbonator things i dont know how people can buy them i'd be really interested to see one on a real dyno

[mikeorwan]

If I install a turbonator in my H pipe and a tornado in each header collector what will the effect be?

Am thinking afterburners ...

[veno]

those turbonator things i dont know how people can buy them i'd be really interested to see one on a real dyno

Try this one: Turbonique
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/royalshifter/aaaa26.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/royalshifter/pics_838.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/royalshifter/F_Farndon_0021.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j38/royalshifter/dr6.jpg


http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/04/the_real_acme.html
http://www.almar.easynet.be/turbonique.htm
http://vaiden.net/rocket_gokart.html


sorry about the HiJack.. but just could not resist this stuff