Steering rack and Ididit column

Finally got that dang oil pan to seal, so this Saturday I will get the front end aliened can't wait to drive it:yes:

................and I can't wait to hear about it, just don't forget to take some photos:yes:

Finally got that dang oil pan to seal, so this Saturday I will get the front end aliened can't wait to drive it:yes:

Cool. I am hoping to take mine on a long trip next week.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=1996+huntsville+quality+rd.+Quality+KY+42256&daddr=37.206269,-86.704102+to:Somerset,+KY&hl=en&geocode=%3B%3BFVvZNQIdCfv0-g&mra=dpe&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=9&via=1&sll=37.00558,-85.727245&sspn=1.144937,2.471924&ie=UTF8&z=9

Here are a few pictures of the Headman Elite Series header with the Church Boys Rack/Pinion conversion. We used a 3rd joint and a support bearing to move the steering linkage closer to the frame rail. Now on a header that had interferance it has as much clearance as the Hooker Super Coms #2243 header did with a straight shaft from the rack to the column.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/67church/IMG_2379.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/67church/IMG_2380.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/67church/IMG_2382.jpg

With the steering linkage in place the header fit right up in place without having to unbolt or remove anything!!

Nice work again, Chuck!

I was following the idea of using the Hedmans for my next project but the clearance question looked to be a missing link...

So thanks for the clarification.

Oh BTW, I will be running the Hookers 2243 again like in my first project.

Regards from overseas.

Boris

If the rack kit would work with Ram Horn Manifolds will yes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Highmark/DSC_0582.jpg
Takes a little work.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Highmark/DSC_0618.jpg
But it works great.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Highmark/DSC_0617.jpg
The car 63 Rag Top 4 Speed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Highmark/DSC_0615.jpg

hey church,

i have finished my install of your kit with my cpp front and now i think it sits to high, i also have Qa1 coil overs.

are there any drop spindles that will fit with your kit?

i know CPP has them but the steering arms are in the wrong spot.

thanks for the help

hey church,

i have finished my install of your kit with my cpp front and now i think it sits to high, i also have Qa1 coil overs.

are there any drop spindles that will fit with your kit?

i know CPP has them but the steering arms are in the wrong spot.

thanks for the help

Can you adjust the coil over down to get the correct height? If not you can get the drop spindle that does not have the cast in steering arms and you will have no problems.

Do you have any pictures?

QA1 Coil-Overs NO Drop spindles And could come down more.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Highmark/Dads%20Car/DSC_0005.jpg

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76109


Here is a photo of the car when i first installed the CPP kit and QA1 coil overs-
i know i need to break them in a bit, but when i crank them down all the way the car still stits high.

Church- note these pictures are before i installed your rack and pinion steering kit-with sway bar, i will update them shortly.

- Do you know what brands are good to look at that are not cast with the steering arms such as CPP?

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76109


Here is a photo of the car when i first installed the CPP kit and QA1 coil overs-
i know i need to break them in a bit, but when i crank them down all the way the car still stits high.

Church- note these pictures are before i installed your rack and pinion steering kit-with sway bar, i will update them shortly.

- Do you know what brands are good to look at that are not cast with the steering arms such as CPP?


It is possible to get the uncast, bolt on version from them.

Update. There is not a way to make the Doug's Tri-Y headers work with this setup. I have the Chevette R/P, CPP lower kit, and stock column. I used the part Chuck made to pull it over a bit with a rod end but the first downtube is in the way. No way around it. I tried a 4" vibration dampener from Speedway in the mix and no dice.

So, now a new set of headers. I know the Hooker 2243 set will work but would like to see what else is out there.

Chuck you mentioned you have Hedman Elite series on your dad's car. Do you know which set this was? I can't find a set for early nova at summit or jegs.

Anyone else have a recommendation?

cale

Here is the link to the summit web page for the headers that we put on in the photos.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1966/make/CHEVROLET/model/NOVA/Department/Exhaust/Brand/Hedman-Hedders/?Ns=Rank|Asc


Very affordable at 149.00

Anybody else use the Church Boys kit with a header besides Doug's and also have a 700R4?

Were you (hoping that I am talking to someone) able to run those headers back without having to modify the 700R4?

Chuck mentioned the Hedman headers and used the rod end setup to get the steering out of the way and they go back past a T350 with no cuts.

cale

I used those headers (Hooker) on a 350 with vortec heads, Church Rack, and a 700r4...no problems at all, no modifications required...:no:


T,

@bosox:

Were you (hoping that I am talking to someone) able to run those headers back without having to modify the 700R4?

Well, I am running that set up as well. I had to cut the passenger side ear of the bellhousing from the TH700 (and an equal part off of the cast aluminum dust cover) to fit with the Hooker 2243s, but I am running a HD-case TH700 so I do not know if that is also fact with the "normal" case transmissions.

It certainly all fits without any modification with the CBR, I can say that for sure.

Regards from overseas,

Boris

It's about that time again...........things are beginning to look UP.......:cool:

It's about that time again...........things are beginning to look UP.......:cool:


Can we get just a tad more ambiguous here Mr. Church..........:confused:

What exactly are you NOT saying, the uppers are ready, spindles, you have LS headers........:bounce:.....c'mon spill it already....:D


T,

:confused::confused: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :confused::confused:

C'mon tell us what other cool stuff you've got for us to play with.

Well here is a little hint.............they bolt on from the side, and have lots to do with curves :D....

Oh boy out riggers like they use to test them SUV's to see if they will tip over. COOOOL!!!

Curves and bolt ons:rolleyes::rolleyes: are you going into plastic surgery:D:D I want some pictures:yes::yes: (you must be feeling better)

I smell uppers....:D:yes::D

Well here is a little hint.............they bolt on from the side, and have lots to do with curves :D....

I'm smelling LSx headers here........I'm in for a set.......gonna work great on my next build.....:D

T,

I'm smelling LSx headers here........I'm in for a set.......gonna work great on my next build.....:D

T,

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :D

If I know Chuck he has plenty of new items in the works.I can't wait to see what he comes out with next.:D

C'mon Chuck,

I'm putting my list together for Santa, and I need to know what I need!:D

He should be done long before Santa needs his list:devil:

C'mon Chuck,

I'm putting my list together for Santa, and I need to know what I need!:D


These are what I have been working on........lots of features.

Chuck,

SWEET!

Are panels to take out/smooth out the shock towers in the works?:yes:

To Chuck and his dad and the boy's and the new little girl and the wife that lets him make all this great stuff.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS

I didn't read through all 53 pages of this topic and probably should have before asking this question but, I was wondering if "CCP" is still re-doing their (stock steering type) lower control arms for a rack system fitment? I recently purchased a complete tubular kit for my 63 wagon from them and have decided to go with a rack / pinion set-up instead of rebuilding / reusing the stock set up. I have already installed the passengers side but, not the drivers.

Thanks!

Well.....I just answered my own question. I just spoke with a "CCP" tech person and was told that the arms I recently purchased from them in their deluxe kit would of had to been returned within 30 days and NOT installed for them to replace with their lower front mount rack type tubular control arms. A new pair goes for $139.00 and they are in very limited quantity with no pictures available on their web site.

Sure wish I'd know this in advance, live and learn I guess. :yes:

Taters there are many people here on the site that can answer a lot of questions concerning the rack/pinion conversions and tubular lower arms. As for the tubular lower arms from cpp that worked with our kit, they were referenced as the "Church Arm" Walt from Classic Nova and Performance was set up as the only dealer to handle them. http://www.classicnova.com/pilot.asp

The price quoted to you does not seem correct, what did that include? Here is a picture of what is needed.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/67church/IMG_1866.jpg

This is the 62-67 Chevy II Nova, tubular lower control arm that is made by us....Church Boys Racing LLC.

I was told that it was a replacement for the current non-front mount rack arm and did not include ball joints that I was to use the ones that came with the other arm. They were a very limited item priced at $135.00 ish which (if I'm reading them right) tells me that after their gone their gone.

I have been looking over several different mountings and still am not sure if the front or the rear is best. I know that the front allows more oil pan room but, it appears that the rear may add additional support to the sub frame.

I was hoping that since I have not used my arms and only installed one and they are still in as new condition that they might trade them out or at least give me a break on the price but, I guess not. I may go ahead and take them off and list them for sale and purchase the others. Still not sure what system I want to go with yet.

Thanks!

And what is GREAT about the rear setup is every time you need to pull the pan or motor you get to pull the rack too. Not so on the front setup.

With a rear mounted system the rack becomes the connecting point between the frame rails. With the front mounted system I have an 1-5/8" .120 wall tubular cross member that connects the frame rails together. This replaces the stock cross member and is much stronger. The rack then mounts to the cross member. You can jack the car up in the air with our cross member.....I don't think I would try that with the rear mounted system.

Thanks "Chuck" but, I need to see what I can do with what I've already purchased unless someone in here whats a "New" set of CPP tubular lower control arms? I'll will keep the lowered springs, tubular upper control arms, shocks and hardware and I already have a nice rack from a 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi that I'll be using.

And what is GREAT about the rear setup is every time you need to pull the pan or motor you get to pull the rack too. Not so on the front setup.

Because you pull the pan and the motor regularly...:rolleyes::no::D

With a rear mounted system the rack becomes the connecting point between the frame rails. With the front mounted system I have an 1-5/8" .120 wall tubular cross member that connects the frame rails together. This replaces the stock cross member and is much stronger. The rack then mounts to the cross member. You can jack the car up in the air with our cross member.....I don't think I would try that with the rear mounted system.

The rear rack is definitely not the load bearing connection point between the frame rails, and it is not intended to be. The rear rack also does not require replacement of the stock front crossmember, it simply replaces the stock steering system with a rack unit. The jacking point remains at the stock front crossmember as before.

The stock subframe has a crossmember that your crossmember replaces for purposes of mounting your rack. Your crossmember might be stronger, but that does not mean it makes the subframe stronger either. :no:

I was thinking that it would actually strengthen the sub-frame but, I have been wrong before. Couldn't find many pictures of the rear rack set up.

Because you pull the pan and the motor regularly...:rolleyes::no::D



The rear rack is definitely not the load bearing connection point between the frame rails, and it is not intended to be. The rear rack also does not require replacement of the stock front crossmember, it simply replaces the stock steering system with a rack unit. The jacking point remains at the stock front crossmember as before.

The stock subframe has a crossmember that your crossmember replaces for purposes of mounting your rack. Your crossmember might be stronger, but that does not mean it makes the subframe stronger either. :no:

Your kidding right?:rolleyes:

Your kidding right?:rolleyes:



:no::no::no::no::no:

MAYBE your crossmember is stronger. Send one to me (without the rack mounts) and Ill let you know...:yes::D

The rear rack is definitely not the load bearing connection point between the frame rails, and it is not intended to be. The rear rack also does not require replacement of the stock front crossmember, it simply replaces the stock steering system with a rack unit. The jacking point remains at the stock front crossmember as before.

The stock subframe has a crossmember that your crossmember replaces for purposes of mounting your rack. Your crossmember might be stronger, but that does not mean it makes the subframe stronger either. :no:

I think I missed a point here... I will re-read again but, I have to say that the crossmember Chuck offers is a substantial item. Just looking at it, you know it is a better piece. I am not a mechanical or design engineer and not able to tell anyone whether it is strong enough for this or that or makes the front end stronger, but I will say the crossmember Chuck offers definitely appears stronger than stock; It just looks like a serious piece of hardware. My brother, however, is a design engineer for a tooling manufacturer and has told me before that a cylinder/tube is the strongest structure. What I do know is that almost all very high end race/hot rod chassis are based on a tube frame for strength/rigidity/weight and Chuck's crossmember is tubular. For the load I will put on it (and probably other non-racing owners), it will meet my needs.

I could be all wrong about any engineering but in the end, I will reiterate, not only does CBR's crossmember appear stronger than the stock crossmember but it also improves the look of the front end components. I certainly don't think it is less strong or weakens the front end so all I have done, at the very least, is improve my steering performance, made the pan more accessible (no matter how often I need it (even once would be a pain)), and maybe put a nicer looking component on my car. None of those items would make the car worse than what I started with. For me, it was an easy decision.

my opinion only
cale

Thanks for ALL the positive input thats why I like this place..:yes:!

Because you pull the pan and the motor regularly...:rolleyes::no::D

Yes I do two or there times a year. Lots of boost causes thing to crack and brake. By keeping a check on things I may catch them before it come out the side of the block. And it sure is nice to do in just a little time and not take all day like it use to. I have found rod end cracked mains cracked rod bolt heads. On my buddys car I found a rod cracked almost into. Sure saved him a lot of money if it had went through the block.

does any one know wich tie rods to use with the stock arms in a 63.

I will apreciate the help.

Thanks, LD

Are you attempting to use our conversion with the stock nova arms?

Yes Chuck. I will bolt a chevete rack using your billet clamps to the stock member.

LD

You will need either front steer Chevelle arms 64-72 I think or CBR's billet arms if the rack is mounted using CBR's mount system.The other arms drop to much for one thing and have other issues.I would use the billet arms if it was me.

Sorry, but that is not going to work, the stock nova arms are too low. The other issue you are going to have is the interference with the stock strut rods, with our mounts and clamps the rack is mounted high in the chassis and will make contact with the strut rod system.

Thanks. I will check this over.

LD

JUST GO ALL CHURCH AND YOU'LL BE FINE!!!:yes:

i have some Chevelle arms from Chuck if someone needs them. I ended up using his new arms and have never installed the Chevelle ones.

What exactly is the difference between stock chevelle steering arms for like $70, and the billet ones from Church Boys at $350:eek:

The rack worked fine with Chevelle arms before the billet ones were made right? Did I miss something along the way?

For a car that sits at stock ride height the Chevelle arms work fine,on a lowered car there were bump steer issues.Here is a pictures showing the difference in the two.The revised arms eliminate the bump steer on a lowered car.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u55/nova404/billetarm.jpg

What exactly is the difference between stock chevelle steering arms for like $70, and the billet ones from Church Boys at $350:eek:

The rack worked fine with Chevelle arms before the billet ones were made right? Did I miss something along the way?

The custom steering arms reduce the bumpsteer compared to using the Chevelle arms. To be honest it should be a necessity with this kit and not an option.

The Billet arms are standard issue with every kit. This thread is dated and shows the advances in the product, therefore if someone were to read from start to finish you could possibly feel as if the chevelle arms could be purchased. I have more chevelle arms than I car to mention, not a single kit will ever again see those arms.

How critical are the CNC arms for just a street car/cruiser?

How critical are the CNC arms for just a street car/cruiser?

On my 66 stock height, CPP lowers and CB R&P and Chevelle arms, big bump, chuck hole etc, there was bump steer. Combined with an alignment that they didn't put much caster into and it almost slapped my head against the window when there was a big dip in the road. You don't really notice how un-even a road is until you have bump steer variances. With the billet arms, the problem is gone. I also found a better alignment shop. I was one that pioneered the alternative and was glad to see the billet arms. The billet arms are the way to go for a street cruiser.

How about on a 66 with drop spindles from CPP -are the CNC arms still a must?

As mentioned the Billet arms are the only arms offered for any kit, so yes they are a must.

I was just asking because I bought the kit when the chevelle arms were the only option and I need to know if its a big enough deal to spend the extra $ before I get the car back together.