Proud new owner of 65 4 dr needs help!!

First of all hello and this is the best damn forum site that I have found to date. Ok, so I just bought my grandpa's 65 4 dr that has been in the fam since 73. It has the original 194 and three on the tree. I just got a 283 from a chevelle that is going in it. I know there are issues with blocks that did not come in a Nova but it is all I got. I also wanted to put a 4 or even 5 sp manual in it. So my q's are:
What do I need to get that 283 and 4 or 5 sp manual to replace the ol' L6 and 3 on tree? I also understand there are z-bar issues as well, so is there any company that makes this conversion kit? I have tried all the web sites and I keep running into "road blocks", is this some super complicated job? Also, is it better to run a rear sump or front sump? I am not lowering the car by the way. I will not be running pwr steering or A/C. Also, since I plan on putting a floor shift to replace the column shifter, is there any cutting in the floor pan or is there an access door that can be removed? For those of you that took the time to read this, thank you and for those who have advice, I greatly appreciate it. I have so many more questions here but this will get me going for now I am sure. My head is spinning:confused:

Hey, first... Welcome to Steve's :D

here's a list of what you'll need... hopefully i won't forget anything, if i do i'm sure others will be along and help...

the bellhousing you have (sixer/manny) is OK except the center hole is smaller than a V8 manny tranny (4spd) would take. all the other clutch linkage is the same. so keep it all. for a non-chevy II block i think you'll need a engine bracket that's made for the Z-bar pivot. this bracket you can get from (example) Chevy2only. you'll also need the frame brackets, front sump oil pan, pump & screen. Chevy2only has a kit with all this stuff i think. yer gonna need that engine to be complete ya know. waterpump, brackets, carb and exhaust. radiator for a V8 would be needed too. the sixer will be on the smallish side.

you could check some of these parts out and do some shopping/researching/browsing in the links we've collected... look in the "Originality" section at Steve's and look at the top of that section for a thread "the Web-Link Library" there's quite a few restoration supply house links along with a lot of conversion & upgrade links... lots of info saved there for ya.


hope i helped,...

be Good ;)

Thank you! Any little bit helps a lot. I didnt know about the linkage being able to work. So the 3 spd linkage will bolt right up to the 4 sp? I have also toyed with the idea of going with a TH350 if I could not get the 4 spd set up to work but again, that is only if it doesnt work. The best thing about this car is that it is 100% complete and the car is straight as an arrow. Paint is shot but that is life. Thanks again

I'm not sure what the z bar is that you are talking about. I know Chevy2only sells the motor mounts for the frame. And I believe the motor mounts that go on the engine are P/N 2267 from Advance auto or Autozone whichever you prefer. I bought the whole radiator kit from Chevy2only it comes with the shroud and radiator. I'm also doing the 283/TH350 I'm trying to take as many pics as I can during the install for others to use to help them out. Good luck and enjoy your Nova.

yeah, the clutch linkage... not the trans shift linkage. that you'll be needing of course for the 4spd or the 5spd.


edit... almost forgot. you'll need to change the accelerator arm for a V8 also... that's different from the sixer too.

I dig your quote, I am in the Navy myself. 4yrs next month. I am either doing a 4spd or a TH350, I guess which ever will work the best. The 283 I am building will have a mild cam and fuelie head, nothing awesome. Just a mild build. Reason being is that if I do decide to go TH350, I dont have to deal with stall converters. This will be just a weekend car, show car, cruiser with a nice healthy sounding v8. I would love to know how your engine/tranny install goes.

I dig your quote, I am in the Navy myself. 4yrs next month. I am either doing a 4spd or a TH350, I guess which ever will work the best. The 283 I am building will have a mild cam and fuelie head, nothing awesome. Just a mild build. Reason being is that if I do decide to go TH350, I dont have to deal with stall converters. This will be just a weekend car, show car, cruiser with a nice healthy sounding v8. I would love to know how your engine/tranny install goes.

Mine is mildly built as well. I have the vortec heads and I just dropped down a size on the cam so I can just cruise around and have fun without having to stop at every gas station on the way.

I was in the Navy for 20 years, retired in 2005. It's probably one of the best jump starts you can get on your life these days.

Very true. So I think I am going with the 5 spd on the floor and I am told I have to cut a hole in the floor which is what I thought. I just hope that I cut it right the first time and all the linkage hooks up with not too much error. One thing I am always telling myself about this project is to take my time. I want to work on it 24/7 but I know if I dont take my time, it will bite me in the arss in the long run. I hope to run into a few people that have done exactly what I am doing.

Is the Z bar the linkage that goes from the clutch pedal to the throw out bearing rod and attaches to the engine. If it is mine was kind of a pain to get out today.

I believe that is exactly what it is. I am going through a thousand mind changes lately! I may just go with a TH350 since that is most likely easier. I want the manual real bad but then I dont have the Nova block and I would have to cut the floor pan and the Z bar issue. AAAAGGGGHHHHH!:mad: If you check out my other threads you will see my post about the fuelie heads. But I hear these heads are trash??!?!!! I have always liked them though. Whatcha think?



"The only easy day, was yesterday"

I believe that is exactly what it is. I am going through a thousand mind changes lately! I may just go with a TH350 since that is most likely easier. I want the manual real bad but then I dont have the Nova block and I would have to cut the floor pan and the Z bar issue. AAAAGGGGHHHHH!:mad: If you check out my other threads you will see my post about the fuelie heads. But I hear these heads are trash??!?!!! I have always liked them though. Whatcha think?



"The only easy day, was yesterday"

Like I said earlier I have the Vortec heads on mine. I have heard a lot of good things about these and I kind of lucked into this engine and it already had them. I know Summit sells them and they are pretty reasonable from what I can tell. You are getting more up to date technology for about the same amount you would spend on your fuelies. I also think that you should do what you want since it's your car and you will be the one enjoying it, I had about 20 people tell me I was wasting my time doing a 283 but I had a few tell me to do what I want with my car and that the 283 was a great engine. Bottom line do things to your car that you like and you'll have a lot of fun with it. By the way one recommendation I can give is if your weatherstripping is bad replace it as soon as possible, this is one thing that will help preserve your car more than any thing else IMHO.

Those Vortec heads will go on an older 283? I almost forgot, you know that breather can underneath the intake, backside that is attatched to the lifter valley? What is it for? I figure it is an early PCV. Can I take it off and run a PCV on the valve cover? Will an edelbrock intake bolt up to this block? I noticed this the other night when I pulled the intake off. Thanks for the great advice, if the Vortec heads are what you say they are, I am going with those. I just hope they work on this older block.

I believe the can thing has been removed from mine. Yes you can run PCV from the valve cover. Here is a picture of mine. It's going into it's new home tomorrow.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/63CHVII/63CHVII%20V8%20Conversion/IMG_0061.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/63CHVII/63CHVII%20V8%20Conversion/IMG_0049.jpg

TH350
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/63CHVII/63CHVII%20V8%20Conversion/IMG_0046.jpg

Reason being is that if I do decide to go TH350, I dont have to deal with stall converters.

Every converter is a 'stall' converter. Some just stall the engine at higher rpm's than others.

What kind tranny did you have and what tranny are you putting in it? I have narrowed mine down to the 283 and TH 350 set up. Doug Herbert has a good one I want to get. I think I just need to get the Auto shift column and the linkage, the cross memeber and I am done. Drive shaft will come later but for now, it is just about getting the power plant in there, mated to the tranny. I figure, I get that done, it is all up hill from there. Famous last words, I know!

Cameron

"The only easy day, was yesterday".

Those Vortec heads will go on an older 283? I almost forgot, you know that breather can underneath the intake, backside that is attatched to the lifter valley? What is it for? I figure it is an early PCV. Can I take it off and run a PCV on the valve cover? Will an edelbrock intake bolt up to this block? I noticed this the other night when I pulled the intake off. Thanks for the great advice, if the Vortec heads are what you say they are, I am going with those. I just hope they work on this older block.

Babydeuce built my engine and he has a lot of good info on the 283. I have to give him 99% of the credit here I am fairly new to this as well and I would still be floundering around if it weren't for him. Just from what I've heard the Vortecs are a good deal but you will probably need to go with the Vortec intake and centerbolt valve covers.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-2116


http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=valve+covers&N=700+4294919746+4294903281+115+4294908216&Ntk=KeywordSearch

These are just some ideas for you to kick around.

You are right Mike. I dont like the higher rpm stall converters, I would rather run a manual. I am shopping for a auto tranny freindly cam. Nice website by the way:cool:

IF I go with a 2004r or a 5sp manny, what gears should I run? I was thinking 3.73 or 3.83 with the 2004r not sure about the 5 spd. If I go 5spd, I can use a slave cyl and a hydro clutch and have to worry about the whole z bar thing right?

After all this time, the Nova is finally in my garage. Been on the road for nearly 12 hours today picking her up and takin her home. She is now in my garage. Pictures will come tomorrow. She needs a lot of work but like I said, at least she is 100% complete. I am so damned excited. :D:D:D

After all this time, the Nova is finally in my garage. Been on the road for nearly 12 hours today picking her up and takin her home. She is now in my garage. Pictures will come tomorrow. She needs a lot of work but like I said, at least she is 100% complete. I am so damned excited. :D:D:D


That's awesome, now the real fun begins. I'll try to put together a mini how to picture deal that may help with some lessons learned. I'm glad for you.

IF I go with a 2004r or a 5sp manny, what gears should I run? I was thinking 3.73 or 3.83 with the 2004r not sure about the 5 spd. If I go 5spd, I can use a slave cyl and a hydro clutch and have to worry about the whole z bar thing right?

I think you can run a hydro clutch on any manual tranny.

If that is the case, I would love to use a saginaw 4 spd. I took some pics now I just need to figure out how to put them on here. Stay tuned, I just may figure out how to do it and you will see my new project. Yes it is a 4 door. I already found a couple spots that have rusted through in the trunk area, where the weather stripping is. I think I can just throw a weld bead on it though and grind it into submission then primer it. Now off to figuring out the picture adding...:cool:

Here are some pictures of the the Nova-65 4 door. You can see the rust on the most common spot in the trunk area. Enjoy, there will be more when I do more. Maybe just a little rubbing compound eh?!?!

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova008.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova005.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova009.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova007.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova009.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova010.jpg

CIVILIAN FRIENDS: Will take your drink away when they think you've had enough.
MILITARY FRIENDS: Will look at you stumbling all over the place and say, "Bitch, you better drink the rest of that ****, you know we don't waste.. That's alcohol abuse!!!"

That is so cool. Glad you finally got it home. You are lucky, it looks like you have all of your trim, even if it's a little beat up you can send it out and have it refurbished I think Glucas does the aluminum stuff. How is the engine design going? Good luck.

Thanks Jeff, it feels good to get to work on it. I already started attacking the rest and started primer-ing. I should be getting the block to the machine shop sometime around next week. I hope that it is not cracked at all. I will post pics when I get the block back and through the assembly process. Did you ever take anymore pics of install? How did it go after the oil leak?

Got the oil leak fixed (Changed the pan) now I'm waiting on alternator brackets. I am going to draw up a list so you won't have to buy stuff you don't need, I have a ton of crap that didn't work or was the wrong part whatever. When I get the alternator bracket and if it works I'll send you the link to the guy so you can get one if you want.

Heck yeah!! I would appreciate that. It just hit me the other day that I have to put together a WHOLE motor. Everything!! It was in the back of my mind but when I actually sat down and calculated everything I needed, it floored me. Oh well, that is why I have to pace my self.

I got such a sweet deal from babydeuce that it probably saved me 1500-2000, I know what you mean it adds up quick. If your block is bad let me know I'll tear down the other 283 I have and take it in and have it checked if it's good I'll send it to you.

Thanks, I will let you know if it is bad and if so, I will buy yours. I wonder how much shipping would be:confused:

I believe that is exactly what it is. I am going through a thousand mind changes lately! I may just go with a TH350 since that is most likely easier. I want the manual real bad but then I dont have the Nova block and I would have to cut the floor pan and the Z bar issue. AAAAGGGGHHHHH!:mad: If you check out my other threads you will see my post about the fuelie heads. But I hear these heads are trash??!?!!! I have always liked them though. Whatcha think?



"The only easy day, was yesterday"

The manual trans is easier to do . Put a 4 speed in and you don,t have to cut the floor! If you need any help don,t hestate to ask Ive swapped from auto to manual on two different cars. Thats harder than switching from a three speed to a four speed [ and cheaper too]

I believe you are right, it does seem easier. My shifter though is on the column so I will have to cut the floor. I just hope I do it right;) I made up my mind that I want to use the 4 sp muncie but I have to get the bellhousing or can I just bore mine out? I wonder if I already have the 309 bellhousing.

Ok, time for a little update. Got the engine and tranny out so now I can begin making the engine compartment looking good. I have a guy in bakersfield building a muncie for me, place called "The Right Connection", ever heard of it? Anyway, the bellhousing that was in the car originaly is a 309 casting so I can use it. I inspected it and found no cracks so it got a thorough cleaning and paint. Here are some pics I took over the weekend.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova014.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova016.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova017.jpghttp://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i26/camsqueen/Nova018.jpg

So I tested a section on the trunk with some rattle can "Duplicolor" and it turned out great. I even wet sanded it and put on some Duplicolor clear coat and I could not believe how good it turned out. I am thinking do the whole car this way. That would be the cheapest for me and maybe a couple years down the road, I will have a professional paint it the right way. Right now I just want it to look better than rust/white. Dig?:cool:
p.s. when I get the whole trunk lid done, I will shoot a pic of it to show you all how it looks. Has anyone done this kind of thing before. I know it seems a little....ummm...crappy. But it really looks good.

I got such a sweet deal from babydeuce that it probably saved me 1500-2000, I know what you mean it adds up quick. If your block is bad let me know I'll tear down the other 283 I have and take it in and have it checked if it's good I'll send it to you.

Jeff, is that a Nova block?

If ya need help, I am close bye and have a few cars to look at, hahahaha!

All jokes aside, I'd love to look at some Nova's and meet someone form this site that lives around here. Where in Fresno are you anyhow?

I want to shave the body where the trim is supposed to be. What is the best way of doing this and if anyone has some pictures of what it looks like, I would appreciate it. I do want to keep the Nova emblem on the back though, but all other trim is not getting put back on the car. Kind of a shame, all the trim is in excellent condition. I just think the car would look better shaved. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving all!!

I want to shave the body where the trim is supposed to be. What is the best way of doing this and if anyone has some pictures of what it looks like, I would appreciate it. I do want to keep the Nova emblem on the back though, but all other trim is not getting put back on the car. Kind of a shame, all the trim is in excellent condition. I just think the car would look better shaved. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving all!!


Cameron,

My body trim has been shaved here are a couple of pics.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/63CHVII/Back.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa158/63CHVII/IMG_1114.jpg

That looks awesome Jeff. Thanks for the pics.

Before
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd182/cambpro/Nova007.jpg
During
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd182/cambpro/Muncie018.jpg
About halfway
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd182/cambpro/Muncie020.jpg
And what it looks like now.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd182/cambpro/Muncie014-1.jpg

I am still doing a little to the engine compartment. Stuff like replacing all the rusted bolts and the master cylinder. Doesn't look great but it looks a lot better than a rusted engine compartment:D Thanks for looking guys, gimme some input;)

That last one was a little blury so here is another "kind of" blury one but a better angle.:D

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd182/cambpro/Muncie015.jpg

Wow,that looks GREAT!! I am a few days behind you. So far, all I have is "before"!!! And to think, in '90 when we painted the car, this was all nice and purdy...

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF1412.jpg

It took about 5 days to complete but not in a row!! From start to finish, it took about a month!! Very dirty work. Thanks for the compliment Carl.

Way to bring back those 4 doors, good luck on your project...:cool:

Thank you CAP66. I love my 4dr:D. Dad's got one too. Only thing about 65's though is the parts are a little harder to come by. Still wouldn't trade it for anything though:D

Good thing i looked at this thread. I didnt know the compications of putting in a v-8 and tranny (but still am doing it) Im putting in a 350 with the 3tree:eek: for a little while until I get a 4 speed.Was also thinking of putting in a TH400 or 200 4R in.

still thinking:(

There are many people on here that will tell yout that a TH400 is a waste of time behind a 350. If you are running a BBC, that is a different story. The 700r4 is a great tranny but requires wiring, the 2004r is a good 4spd auto that will work with minimal agrivation. If you already have a manual, might as well keep it manual. Putting in a floor shifter is not too comlicated. In your year Nova, they used different lengthed 3 speed tranny's, you would have to get a different crossmember or modify yours, no biggie, very simple to just replace your old one or even fab one. I would strongly advise using the better high priced motor mounts, the cheap $20 motor mounts suck royaly and are nothing but aggrivation. IMO, paying more....well you get more. I know of many people getting by with the 5/16 inch fuel line with a stock or very mild V-8, but you will need a 3/8 inch fuel line with anything exhilerating. Also, give some attention to your front springs (suspension). The ride will be much better when you convert the springs to V-8 springs with a V-8 in the car. Many people just leave the stock 6cyl springs in but the ride is not very good. Just a few things off the top of my head, PM me if you have more questions. I should be getting the motor and tranny mounted in the car within a month or so. (Fingers crossed):D

Anybody know how much (ballpark) it would cost for someone like Macco to sand my Nova to bare metal? If it is not much, I am concidering having them do it. I am leaving on deployment soon and I don't have a whole hell of a lot of time to do it myself. I would also have them remove the front and rear windshield. My goals are to have the car painted and engine and tranny as close to install as I can without breaking the bank before I deploy. Thanks

Uuhhhh......anybody? Come on, I know there is SOMEONE out there with some insight on this subject. Don't be shy:D

. On my cars, I did ALL of the prep work. Decent job for cheap money. Not a show car though.

Uuhhhh......anybody? Come on, I know there is SOMEONE out there with some insight on this subject. Don't be shy:D

Cameron,

Back in 04, I had my 66 painted at Maaco. Had them do some of the bodywork (rear filler panel behind rear windshield was replaced), some dents taken out, they did the prep/paint. It cost me just under $2000.00 with taxes/shop fees. I also had the rear and front windows out, with new windshield gasket installed. The paint looks really good, and alot of people are surprised when I tell them who did it. :D

Thank you Steve, I will be doing some of the prep work my self but I wanted them to take care of the dents and un evenness and such. Also taking out the windshields and replacing them with new weatherstripping. Thanks for the info.

Hey FNG…
You may want to see if there is a local who will soda blast the car for you. Price may vary and stay away from sand as it will warp the metal. I had a guy do the floor boards and jambs...took him 5-6 hours and cost me about $350....but it was worth it. I chemical stripped the rest of the body. As for the windows I took them out myself....used a razor and cut the gasket on the inside of the car....rest just pops out trim and all. I will have a local shop reset the glass when it is time, however i am going with a glue in and bead gasket (similar to S-10) to get rid of the trim and mile wide gasket....

As for your previous notes on shaving the rear molding / side molding...see below. I did this before with filler....now that I am doing the car again I will be cutting and aligning the rear panels welding the holes and skim coating for finish....For what I did not know 10 yrs ago all the bodywork held up great.....


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj221/63nova2_2007/100_0643.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj221/63nova2_2007/100_0638.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj221/63nova2_2007/100_3660.jpg

here is what she looked like this weekend.....:devil:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj221/63nova2_2007/100_4442.jpg

Thank you Z-man for the tips and pics. That Nova looks real clean shaved. If I do decide to shave the trim, I wont do all of it. I want to at least keep the peak trim. I think I am going to take the car down to bare metal as much as I can, then have who ever paints it do the finishing touches like dent removal etc.