Another Front clip issue?

I know I know there are a lot of posts on all the different clips and issues with each. I did the search and after a lot of reading I am still confused. I want to get coil overs, manual steering and big brakes with 4 piston aluminum calipers. Has anyone used the Checkerd racing clip? It seems to be a lot cheaper than the rest which would allow me to upgrade my brakes. I hear their a little rough around the edges(finish wise), but want to know how they preform once installed? I want to try to get it done for less than 3 grand and also don't want to have to buy another set of special headers. I hear you can use almost any header that would fit a stock clip with the Checkerd one. Am I correct or being fed a line of BS?

I think Hotrodgary put one in his..............

I know I've said this many times on other posts but it really depends on what you want to do with the car! Are you going to be tracking it? Dragging it or just cruising it! Most of the clips are pretty comparable as far as for cruiser use! Once you start hammering on it is when the differences start to bear out.

John

Mostly a cruiser with some drag strip duty every now and then. I don't think I will be doing any auto cross or any type of road racing. Is my dollar figure just a pipe dream or do you think it can be had for less than 3 grand total? Thanks

If you can weld in motor mounts go with the checkered. If I could get rid of my old front clip I would already have it together and rolling around. I paid under $2000.00 and have everything I need besides misc. bolts and such. The nicest thing about this brand is you don't mind making changes to suit you. When mine is done you won't find any reason to buy any other.






;)

I wonder if they can run shockwaves in the place of the coilovers. How is their customer service? What do you do for inner fenders?

Chop

I agree, I'd like more info on this front clip. To all that have it lets hear more.:) The more info the better. I am most likely going to buy with in the next month and it's time to make a decision!:confused:

They have inner fenders available. (150) steel or aluminum. The hood will bolt to their inner fenders.

I would like use their front and rear, and run air suspension. Someone needs to figure that out.

Mostly a cruiser with some drag strip duty every now and then. I don't think I will be doing any auto cross or any type of road racing. Is my dollar figure just a pipe dream or do you think it can be had for less than 3 grand total? Thanks

Have you looked at the CPP kit? Also, if the only time this car will see abuse is on the Drag strip I would be a little more concerned with the rear end than the front! What kind of rear suspension are you thinking of running? 3 link? 4 link? Truck Arm? Ladder bars? etc. If dragging is where you'll need for the car to really step up then I think you need to really put some time in to that area of the car! It's not to say that you shouldn't be concerned with the front but for what you want to do with the car the front end isn't as vital as the rear. The Checkered clip or CPP kit will definitely do the job for you on the front end for your intended purpose but most of the abuse that the car will be experiencing when you are pushing it hard will be on the rear end of the car so this is where you need to concentrate your efforts in my opinion!

John

I will be using multi leaf springs with a traction bar(caltracs) and 2 way adjustable shocks. My reason for a front clip is to update the old clapped out suspension and steering with new modern components with rack and pinion steering and the like. I also want to have that clean open engine compartment you get with a clip and coil over suspension. I will also be putting in a 6 or 8 point chrome molly roll bar with sub frame connectors to stiffen everything up.

I will be using multi leaf springs with a traction bar(caltracs) and 2 way adjustable shocks. My reason for a front clip is to update the old clapped out suspension and steering with new modern components with rack and pinion steering and the like. I also want to have that clean open engine compartment you get with a clip and coil over suspension. I will also be putting in a 6 or 8 point chrome molly roll bar with sub frame connectors to stiffen everything up.

Then, as long as you don't mind doing some fab, the Checkered Racing clip should be fine!

I'm just guessing here but it sounds to me that with the cage and SFC's you also want the car to handle well in the corners? You might want to do a little more research for a clip to fit this bill along with upping your budget if this is the case. Keep in mind that with a cage, if you are thinking of cruising the car with friends in tow, it's going to be a nuisance for the back seat passengers getting in and out along with it being dangerous for them back there in the event of an accident.

Don't forget good brakes!

John

The fab work is no problem, and cornering is not much of a concern but I'd hope just about any front clip would be of great improvement over the stock set up? It will be going somewhere in the 10.5 range and a cage is required after 11.0 and the only people in the back seat is my kids(7&4) and they will be in their car seats with mini 5 point harnesses on. I would think thats the safest area of the car after the cage install? I am definatly going to have good brakes no matter what the costs!

The fab work is no problem, and cornering is not much of a concern but I'd hope just about any front clip would be of great improvement over the stock set up? It will be going somewhere in the 10.5 range and a cage is required after 11.0 and the only people in the back seat is my kids(7&4) and they will be in their car seats with mini 5 point harnesses on. I would think thats the safest area of the car after the cage install? I am definatly going to have good brakes no matter what the costs!

Hmmmm.....as good as the 5 points are, when you get into an accident the belts WILL stretch some. Not much but they will stretch along with the inertial forces put on your childrens bodies. You would be amazed at how much the human body will stretch under those kinds of forces! Depending on the cage you install, know that the back seat, when a cage is installed, is the most dangerous area of the car! I am assuming you will have a crossbar going across the main hoop for the front seat 5 points? This is an area where most people hit their heads along with the down bars going down the back of the car. Cage pads will only help for mild hits. In an accident they will not help at all!

I would think twice about putting a roll cage in the car if you are going to be putting children in the back seat, besides, since you want to do the cage in chrome moly, which ain't cheap, you may want to divert the money that you had budgeted for this into back halving the rear end. This will also stiffen up your car and get you better hook on the drag strip!

John

This is one of the changes I made to the checkered clip. The shock mount normally sits on top of the cross bar. I prefer a lower position so I fabbed my own.http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/argrandawg/IMG_1451.jpg
What do ya think?? Please realize it is upside down so you can see the work. I also wanted the shock as close to the wheel as possible.:p

The fab work looks great Ardog. What reason did you have for doing this? Will the mods lower your ride height? Do you have the dropped spindles on your checkerd clip? As for back halfing my car I am replacing the stock frame rails with CE 2"x3" rails and mini tubing. Along with the SF Connectors and the cage I doubt their will be much chassis flex. The cage design I choose has plenty of head room as the down bars follow the roof lines and the kids will be quite clear of any bars. Thanks for the concern and it's all been taken into account.

I'm not recommending this for anyone I just wanted every ounce of geometry I could squeeze in. It won't lower the car it just positions the shock closer to the balljoint. Now I have to find a different shock to meet the new dimensions.:eek: If you look at a CA lower A arm you will see something similar. I bought both spindles so I can try and see which height I like best.:) Most folks choose to run coil over shocks to adjust ride height but my reason is to easily swap out front springs until I find just the right mix of ride quality and handling.:cool:



:cool:

The fab work looks great Ardog. What reason did you have for doing this? Will the mods lower your ride height? Do you have the dropped spindles on your checkerd clip? As for back halfing my car I am replacing the stock frame rails with CE 2"x3" rails and mini tubing. Along with the SF Connectors and the cage I doubt their will be much chassis flex. The cage design I choose has plenty of head room as the down bars follow the roof lines and the kids will be quite clear of any bars. Thanks for the concern and it's all been taken into account.

I agree! Nice job on the lowers!

Hey Mazz! Keep in mind that drop spindles will typically give you worse bumpsteer so think about it before you invest in drop spindles! Not sure on the Checkered clip but most clips will lower your car around 2" anyways!
If you're going to go to the trouble of back halving the car you might as well go coilover with a 4 bar and panhard bar! This way you can have lots of adjustability for running street to strip!:D

John

I did that 4 link on my last car(66nova)and it seemed to ruin the street manners of the car. I don't want that for this one as it will primarily be a street cruiser. I am only replacing the frame rails cause they have some rust. I did not know that the clips lower ride height, I will keep that in mind. Thanks Anthony

Not to burst your bubble, but I think your $3,000 budget isn't going to make much of a dent in your list of things you mention. I agree with the others, putting in a cage for a "family" car isn't a good idea...there's too many negatives not to mention, if you ever think of selling it, you just limited your number of buyers to a very few.

As John mentioned, you need to think the entire project through, not just the front end as that's only one piece of it. You get what you pay for on the front end piece. If you want a "project", then the cheaper ones will satisfy your need. If you want something that is complete with all the fasteners, perfect fitting parts, good instructions, little or no fabrication, headers that fit without having to make custom fab'd one's etc. then you will pay more.

As for the rear, there's some nice 4 link and triangular setups available now that have a lot more advantages than a leaf spring configuration, especially if you want to get the car low, have the options for air ride etc.

I agree! Nice job on the lowers!

Hey Mazz! Keep in mind that drop spindles will typically give you worse bumpsteer so think about it before you invest in drop spindles! Not sure on the Checkered clip but most clips will lower your car around 2" anyways!
John

I bought both standard height and drop spindles and I see no way how one will cause any more bump steer than the other. The only difference is the spindle location. The steering point in relation to the upper and lower ball joints is the same. As far as bump I will let you know what I am able to measure.

Let me make clear I am never going to sell my nova, I've made that mistake before and with the prices they are now fetching will not do it again. My 3 Grand budget is for the front clip alone, as I already have most other parts. I was told from the Checkerd sales man/owner that any header for a stock clip will work in his? Anyone know if this is true? I have headman 1 5/8 full length with 3"collectors. Also if I want to run it at the track the cage is a must and from my measurements there seems to be plenty of room around smaller passengers(18"-20" and more).

I bought both standard height and drop spindles and I see no way how one will cause any more bump steer than the other. The only difference is the spindle location. The steering point in relation to the upper and lower ball joints is the same. As far as bump I will let you know what I am able to measure.

That's the way all the Mustang II drop spindles I've ever seen are. I have Heidt's 2" drop spindles and didn't notice any difference between them and stock Mustang II spindles when driving. It handles exactly the same. It just has a nicer rake now.

Are the Checkerd front clip spindels dropped from stock?

Good thread.

<---been thinking about going with Checkered.

Are the Checkered front clip spindles dropped from stock?

You can ask for either drop or standard height. Once I find out which I prefer I will be selling the other pair. Stay tuned. Heres what I did last night.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/argrandawg/IMG_1458.jpg




:cool:

Here's some pictures of my Checkered Racing front clip. I'm just mocking it up for now. I'll have to pull it back apart for powder coating once I get the down tubes and engine mounts welded on. The down tubes are the Heidt's adjustable. The spindles are heidt's as well, with a 2" drop.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/64Deuce/Front%20Clip/Progress2001.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/64Deuce/Dropblocks003.jpg

I bought both standard height and drop spindles and I see no way how one will cause any more bump steer than the other. The only difference is the spindle location. The steering point in relation to the upper and lower ball joints is the same. As far as bump I will let you know what I am able to measure.

But if you keep the base of the spindle with the steering arm in the same location and just move the shank up 2", which most drop spindle manufacturers do, aren't you, in effect, changing the location of the steering arm which will alter your toe in at bump and cause more bumpsteer in relation to axle center?

John

Here's some pictures of my Checkered Racing front clip. I'm just mocking it up for now. I'll have to pull it back apart for powder coating once I get the down tubes and engine mounts welded on. The down tubes are the Heidt's adjustable. The spindles are heidt's as well, with a 2" drop.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/64Deuce/Front%20Clip/Progress2001.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/64Deuce/Dropblocks003.jpg

Hey Nwayne!

How hot is it in Vegas right now??!!!?:p

I bet it is SCORCHING!!:eek::beer:

One question, are those heim joints you're using to connect the lower rails to the firewall? If so, aren't they going to be noisy when you are driving around?

John

What headers are you guys gonna run? Nwayne hows the ground clearence with the drop spindels? Is that a stock column? Some one needs to do a write up on this front end! They both look great and with the money saved you can upgrade brakes or what ever!

But if you keep the base of the spindle with the steering arm in the same location and just move the shank up 2", which most drop spindle manufacturers do, aren't you, in effect, changing the location of the steering arm which will alter your toe in at bump and cause more bumpsteer in relation to axle center?

John

Once I get the down tubes the way I want I will measure the bump on both spindles and report back. Here are the tubes I'm making. The way CA makes theirs I figured I would go overboard. The shank is 3/4 inch and there is no pivot. The bolt is a grade eight in 1/2 inch. I'm using 1.25" DOM in 0.095 wall. When I'm done with these you'll know what I mean. I like to call my shop Overkill Construction.:D
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/argrandawg/IMG_1460.jpg

WHOA!!!! You ain't kiddin'!:eek:

Those are some BEEFY shanks!

John

Hey Nwayne!

How hot is it in Vegas right now??!!!?:p

I bet it is SCORCHING!!:eek::beer:

One question, are those heim joints you're using to connect the lower rails to the firewall? If so, aren't they going to be noisy when you are driving around?

John


Yea John, it's pretty freakin hot!
There's no pivot in the joint, so hopefuly there won't be any movement or noise.

What headers are you guys gonna run? Nwayne hows the ground clearence with the drop spindels? Is that a stock column? Some one needs to do a write up on this front end! They both look great and with the money saved you can upgrade brakes or what ever!

The ground clearence is pretty low. Not sure if I'll need to go to the stock spindles until I finish mocking the engine up. The steering column is an Ididit. Not sure on the headers yet.

Thanks, I sent an E-Mail to Checkerd Racing and asked a lot of questions(headers, ride height compared to stock,inner fenders,big brake upgrades and more). I will let everyone know what they say. If I don't hear back by Tuesday I'll call cause I need to make a decision soon. Thanks Anthony

Thanks, I sent an E-Mail to Checkerd Racing and asked a lot of questions(headers, ride height compared to stock,inner fenders,big brake upgrades and more). I will let everyone know what they say. If I don't hear back by Tuesday I'll call cause I need to make a decision soon. Thanks Anthony

Don't use their inner fenders. I sent mine back. I'll be using the CA upper braces, and will modify a set of Heidts to fit. I believe they do have a big brake upgrade, but only with the stock spindles.
Good luck.

Nick

What was wrong with theirs? bad fitment or what?

What was wrong with theirs? bad fitment or what?

Bad fitment, needed lots of trimming to work. The hood hinge mounts just didn't seem very sturdy. I believe the CA braces are probably the best.

wow i never knew that there were more then 3 companys that made clips(heits tci and ca)

HOW MANY COMPANYS OR FRONT CLIPS ARE AVALIBLE FOR A EARLY NOVA???

whos the cheapest and whos the most expensive???

wow i never knew that there were more then 3 companys that made clips(heits tci and ca)

HOW MANY COMPANYS OR FRONT CLIPS ARE AVALIBLE FOR A EARLY NOVA???

whos the cheapest and whos the most expensive???

http://home.earthlink.net/~joemama1/fsusp.html

Try here!

John

Here's a couple of pictures with the CA upper brace mounted on. I would have done both sides but it's too dang hot out, and they have to come back off.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/64Deuce/Front%20Clip/CAbraces002.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/64Deuce/Front%20Clip/CAbraces001.jpg
Here's one of the joint that attaches to the firewall. No movement.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c283/64Deuce/Front%20Clip/CAbraces003.jpg

It looks to be Checkerd as the cheapest complete coil over set up. Now the big question is what comprimises can you afford to live without?;)

It looks to be Checkerd as the cheapest complete coil over set up. Now the big question is what comprimises can you afford to live without?;)

Such as?
I'd rate the Checkered clip best bang for the buck, if you're looking for a coil over type setup. That's the look I wanted otherwise it would probably have been TCI. No doubt CA has the best in terms of quality, fit and finish. But the total cost of their clip is more than my car's worth.:eek:
Plus I'm buying parts as I go and when I need them. I've been able to save even more by shopping around for brake parts. I've gotten most of it through Walt at Classic Novas.:)

Novanutcase, Thanks for the comparison link.:cool: I will be reading that very carefully tonight. I am leaning towards the Checkerd clip but might change my mind after some reading.:confused:

Novanutcase, Thanks for the comparison link.:cool: I will be reading that very carefully tonight. I am leaning towards the Checkerd clip but might change my mind after some reading.:confused:

Your Welcome! Before anything just figure out what it is you want the car to do. This will tell you pretty much what it is you want in terms of a front clip. If all you want is to cruise then the Checkered Racing is probably your best bet but there will be some work involved interms of chasing down a bolt here and there and having to "make it fit" in some areas!

I still think that if you're going to go to the trouble of backhalving the car you might as well go with adjustable coilovers so that you can adjust your ride height and a truck arm! This way when you run through some twisties you won't spill your soda!:D

Good Luck!

John

Just got a reply from my e-mailed questions last night (fast response)! They say my current headers(Headman 1 5/8") will work fine, they sell inner fenders with hood hinge supports, and if my car weighs over 3000lbs(does it?), I would need the heavy duty Willwood brake upgrade. They seem to be a good company and with such fast response to just an e-mail from not even a customer:). I like that my headers will work:cool:, now I need more info on the big brake upgrade they offer. Any one know what Willwood part# they use? I asked them and await another reply, should be soon!;) I will let you guys know.

Just got a reply from my e-mailed questions last night (fast response)! They say my current headers(Headman 1 5/8") will work fine, they sell inner fenders with hood hinge supports, and if my car weighs over 3000lbs(does it?), I would need the heavy duty Willwood brake upgrade. They seem to be a good company and with such fast response to just an e-mail from not even a customer:). I like that my headers will work:cool:, now I need more info on the big brake upgrade they offer. Any one know what Willwood part# they use? I asked them and await another reply, should be soon!;) I will let you guys know.

Was it Patrick that replied? He's usually pretty good about getting back to you. The Owner on the other hand.:eek:
Anyway, I thought I had some pictures of the hinge supports and inner fenders, and would have shown you why you shouldn't get them. But I guess I deleted them.
The hinge supports themselves didn't fit very well and required a lot of grinding to work. Plus they made my fenders stick up about an inch over the cowl. The inner fenders were flat at the top, not rounded with the contour of the fenders.
I had to take pictures for Checkered so they would refund my money and take those POS back. Other than that I'm pretty pleased with it.
Do yourself a favor, save the headache, and frustration, and get the CA braces. Much sturdier. IMO. Or you could get the Heidts, which are still better than the Checkered inners and hinge supports.


Hope I've helped,

Nick

Yes it was Patrick and you have helped along with Arwndawg. Thanks Anthony, I'll let you know what I find out.

DONT GET A CHECKERED CLIP!!!! trust me:(

Please explain? :confused:

DONT GET A CHECKERED CLIP!!!! trust me:(

why not??

iam really wanting to do a weld in crossmember now that ive seen it done...looks fun and i can do alittle at a time with out reaching into my pockets so much...onlything how much will i save in the end as opposed to getting a checkard front end..

NOVANUTCASE are you doing all the work on your car yourself??
ever thought about makeing a c5 suspension front clip and selling it???

You guys seem to know what you are doing. I would like to upgrade the frontend of my car. Here is the deal. I already have Coilovers and Disk Bracks on the car. What would be the best way to go from here?

Thanks 3DTIM

wow lots of discussion, i'll throw my 2 cents in. I bought the checkered clip for the same reasons. - primarily money. And I own a big welder and plasma cutter so wasn;t afraid of the fab work involved.
-
would i do it again - probably not.

- steering rack mounts were crooked had to fix those
- bottom of the clip sides werent boxed in - so i did em
- no holes pre-drilled for factory bumper mounts - this sucked big time (had to plasma cut a hole from the backside of the frame rail to weld in nuts and then weld/grind the metal back in - that plus measuring and re-measuring took about 10-12 hours of my time
- figuring out the header deal - hooker fenderwell headers will not fit with a big block without hitting tires (i have the dropped spindles). went with chassisworks headers - fit like a glove
- had to build radiator mounts
- built my own shroud to connect the fenders to the front of the clip (i also used the chassisworks fender mounts)

you can see much of it here:
http://home.mchsi.com/~ddrumguy/

honestly you get what you pay for - really. I looked at the chassisworks kit at goodguys and was way more impressed on how the entire front clip,headers,motor plate etc was designed - all in CAD by the way. They have done a superb job designing this - more money - yep. But after fighting the headers and bumpers - I can see why guys save a little longer for the best of the clips - If i had to rate em it would be alston, heidts,tci,checkered. just my opinion mind you.

Dont get me wrong, the checkered clip will work - just want you to know my experiences and you will be doing more work than just bolting it on.

My advice dont buy anything by looking at pictures on the net. find cars or a goodguys show or equivelent where you can see these clips up close and you will probably have a better idea of what you are looking at.

NOVANUTCASE are you doing all the work on your car yourself??
ever thought about makeing a c5 suspension front clip and selling it???

Nope! I'm not talented enough to bend tube and weld like that!:(:o:)

Ironworks is doing all the fab work! Besides, I'm right in the middle of painting and rebuilding the front suspension of my T-Bird so I don't have the time to get done what they've gotten done!

I spoke to Rodger, the owner of Ironworks, about this very thing but there are so many variables to think about! SBC? BBC? Brakes? Tire Clearance? Rack or Manual? Also, it doesn't help that the tolerances were less than accurate for our cars so if he builds a clip with a track width he measured from another car that worked it may be too wide in yours! The best thing to do is bring your car in and once you have all those variables pinned down he can build you a custom clip that will fit YOUR car!

John

Wow thats the first I heard of the bumper issues. I will be going SBC so I can save a lot of ****$ using my headers. What do you mean by the cross member needing to be boxed? All the Checkerd clips I've seen(in person) were all boxed 2x3 tube. Any pics of the area you had to box? Anyone else have bumper issues with this clip? How old is yours Badnova, maybe they changed some things latley. I am planing on buying the clip minus the spindels and brakes and use chassis works inner fenders like Nwayne.

bought mine last fall. the area i boxed was not the 2x3 tubing but the crossmember sides that angl up to the 2x3 tubing - you dont have to box this, just looks better - i think all the other clips come that way.

Again - this clip will work, just not as easy probably as some of the others - i think more time was spent in design on the others and all the little things that eat up time are done for you on the chassisworks clip.

Mine aint so bad that i ripped it out and replaced it - i'm gonna use it. just saying If i had it to do over again, knowing what i know now.. I would have bought the alston clip - if your not in a huge hurry i would poke around on ebay or racingjunk etc and try to find an alston , heidts or tci clip that someone may have never got installed in there car.

dont know where you are at on your car project wise - but if you are just starting and thinking of caging etc - you might want to look at the 67 nova for sale in the classifieds ( dont remember whose car it is but it has a chassisworks clip and is minitubbed and caged with new quarters and comes with lots of new parts. If I didn't own mine I would be buying that car - all of the hard work has been done and the guy is probably taking a loss on the deal. anyway just another thought.

I know that the Checkerd clip narrows the track width 1" per side. Does it also bring the front wheels back at all? I believe some of the other clips do(Heidts,TCI). This is something I would like to have as I like the way they center up the wheel opening when it's moved back!

Can the people that have the Checkerd clip answer my question if it will move the wheels back any? Or what clips do that, I know at least one brand did? Thanks Anthony

The Chassisworks clip does all that...it was engineered to solve the many stock clip issues such as narrower track width, moving the front wheels back, corrected bumpsteer, choices on brakes, choices on shocks, clutch crossshaft mounting in correct position, stock engine offset to passenger side so the drivetrain lines up correctly to the trans/rearend assembly, custom built rack & redesigned spindles, and all the pieces are in the kit including all the correct mounting hardware (nuts & bolts) & a great set of instructions. There's no welding involved and everything fits perfect including headers etc.

I just got an e-mail from Patrick at Checkerd racing and their clip does move the front wheels back 1/2". I think I am going with theirs, but will shop the brakes and spindles elsewhere(thanks Agrandawg). Now the new question is what spring rates to run?:confused:

I just got an e-mail from Patrick at Checkerd racing and their clip does move the front wheels back 1/2". I think I am going with theirs, but will shop the brakes and spindles elsewhere(thanks Agrandawg). Now the new question is what spring rates to run?:confused:

That's good to know because I wasn't sure. Check with Walt at classic nova.com, or Tim, ibuildm either one of these guys can hook you up with brakes and spindles.

Good luck.

i haven't read this whole thread, excuse me if this has already been said...

i have a Heidt's clip on the FLYER that was a std coil front that i installed the "Bee Hive" coil overs and the upgraded lower a arms (for the C/O's) i too have 2" drop spindles... as low as the JollyRodder sits in the front i've been seriously thinking of getting a set of the std height (stock) Heidt's spindles... the QA1's will give me approximately 3" of adjustability... so with a 2" drop i can ONLY go up... really. but with std height spindles i'll be able to go Up or Down... i dunno 'bout usin' the 2" drop spindles anymore... as i said... i'm now leaning towards the stocker height...


something maybe for everyone to consider... maybe.

Gonna run stock height mustang II spindles. I don't want to be dragging everything down these beautiful Jersey roads:). I also think their is more of a selection for brakes, although I want to run 12" wilwoods.

Gonna run stock height mustang II spindles. I don't want to be dragging everything down these beautiful Jersey roads:). I also think their is more of a selection for brakes, although I want to run 12" wilwoods.

I'd like to run the Wilwoods too, but it's a pretty pricey upgrade. I think I'll stick with the big heavy 11 inch plain rotors for now.:( Hopefully I don't have to switch back to stcok height spindles cause I paid a crap load for the Heidts 2" drop spindle.:o Plus I want mine to sit low so if I have to run shorty headers on it so be it.

Gonna run stock height mustang II spindles. I don't want to be dragging everything down these beautiful Jersey roads:). I also think their is more of a selection for brakes, although I want to run 12" wilwoods.

I'd like to run the Wilwoods too, but it's a pretty pricey upgrade. I think I'll stick with the big heavy 11 inch plain rotors for now.:( Hopefully I don't have to switch back to stcok height spindles cause I paid a crap load for the Heidts 2" drop spindle.:o Plus I want mine to sit low so if I have to run shorty headers on it so be it.

Check out Kore 3! They have real nice brakes for not too much!

http://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10103

John

Check out Kore 3! They have real nice brakes for not too much!

http://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10103

John


Hey John, maybe I didn't dig deep enough but I didn't see where they had brake kits to work with MII spindles?

Hey John, maybe I didn't dig deep enough but I didn't see where they had brake kits to work with MII spindles?

CRAP!!! Sorry about that! I forgot they do mostly C5/C6 Corvette stuff!

Try these guys!

http://www.raceshopper.com/index.shtml

or these guys!

http://discbrakesrus.com/make/ford/mustanggtff.htm

Kind of expensive but maybe these guys!

http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/products/search/Street+Rod+Kits/Mustang+II

Of course there's always Baer and Wilwood!

If you're really serious about road racing and have the cash then Brembo!

John

I have one last choice to make. Do I go with the upgraded Willwood brakes from Checkerd for an additional $325 or take the credit of $525 and shop for brakes and Mustang II spindles on my own. The Willwood brake part# they sell is 140-2129. Is $850 a good price for that brake set up with spindles? Also how much are the spindles alone? I found the brake kit at summit for $775.Thanks

i was thinkin maybe we can get together and see if checard racing would let us do a group by or something ..
i know i want one for sure and i sure theres probly 5 more guys here..
with 10 people iam sure they will cut us a deal dosent have to be all front end i want the front and the 4 link for rear...what do you say boys let get something going...

i was thinkin maybe we can get together and see if checard racing would let us do a group by or something ..
i know i want one for sure and i sure theres probly 5 more guys here..
with 10 people iam sure they will cut us a deal dosent have to be all front end i want the front and the 4 link for rear...what do you say boys let get something going...

EK,

Although your heart and head is in the right place, let me caution you on trying to put together a Group Purchase! I tried it one time and it is ALOT of work! Not really worth it! If you want to do a Group Purchase contact Lisa Serafine at:

http://www.gpsuperstore.com/

She can get something going if you have enough people and they already have a relationship with the vendor you want to do the buy with!

John

I have one last choice to make. Do I go with the upgraded Willwood brakes from Checkerd for an additional $325 or take the credit of $525 and shop for brakes and Mustang II spindles on my own. The Willwood brake part# they sell is 140-2129. Is $850 a good price for that brake set up with spindles? Also how much are the spindles alone? I found the brake kit at summit for $775.Thanks

Jegs has them for less:

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_14890_-1

Jegs has them for less:

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_14890_-1

Not trying to one-up you, but I got quotes for MII kits from GP superstore:


EDIT!!! AH-HAH.. Not sure if GP price was for drilled/slotted!!

From GP Superstore - Your cost for 140-8652 is $617.00 and 140-9054 is $604.00.

The differences I found were:

2129 - 10.75 inch rotor
8652 - 11.00 inch rotor - everything else (including calipers) were the same
9054 - 11.75 inch rotor and I think the mounting bracket was different than 2129 and 8652

Check it out here: http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Pages/08/index.asp

It takes some digging, but its interesting to see.

i haven't read this whole thread, excuse me if this has already been said...

i have a Heidt's clip on the FLYER that was a std coil front that i installed the "Bee Hive" coil overs and the upgraded lower a arms (for the C/O's) i too have 2" drop spindles... as low as the JollyRodder sits in the front i've been seriously thinking of getting a set of the std height (stock) Heidt's spindles... the QA1's will give me approximately 3" of adjustability... so with a 2" drop i can ONLY go up... really. but with std height spindles i'll be able to go Up or Down... i dunno 'bout usin' the 2" drop spindles anymore... as i said... i'm now leaning towards the stocker height...


something maybe for everyone to consider... maybe.


John , what is your lowest clearing point? And what is the clearance measurement? If anyone else has the Heidts MII, can you give me your measurements? Please say if you have the stock spindles or 2 inch drop spindles.

I have a 66 project that came with the Heidts MII front end with 2 inch drop spindles. I love the look of the 2 inch drop, but I've always been a bit worried about a clearance issue. Right now with the two inch drops on it, and with the lower a arms level (held by a brace), I have about 5 inches of clearance at the cross member. How far past the cross member will the oil pan or headers be?

MAZZ, as you can probably tell, I too am thinking about going with the stock height spindles. Does this really open up the brake selection? Is it due to the proprietary Heidts caliper mounts not being needed for the standard spindles? I want to run 17 inch wheels, but I'm not too sure how it will look without the drop???...

Thanks guys

66Badboy, I have 17"C-5's on the way and I think without the drop spindles they will look fine. The bigger rim will fill the wheel opening better, and if not I can lower it with the coilovers. Just how much adjustability do they give you anyway? I would be interested in a group buy but as novanutcase said they rareley work out.:( Checkerd will be at Carlisle Pa. the first week in October and I am going to meet them there to pick up my clip. It's a 2 1/2 hour drive but better than another $150 shipping.

i don't have my engine in yet but as it sits it's already nose down... i want the Flyer to be flat running and not so much nose heavy so to speak... i know i'll get at least 1-1/2" to 2" additional drop once the engine is in... so i'll be swapping spindles prior to that.

The bigger rim will fill the wheel opening better, and if not I can lower it with the coilovers. Just how much adjustability do they give you anyway?[/QUOTE]


Try not to think of coil-overs as giving different height adjustments. The lower A frames should be level or leaning slightly down and out.(So when the car is loaded they are level, No one seems to look at that) The geometry should be your first priority. The beauty of coil-overs for me is the ease in which you can replace the springs to determine the best match to your sway bars and driving style. :rolleyes:

MAZ,

Its not a group buy price. That was quoted to me alone from them. Also, I guess looking at Funkys car at Batmans car, stock ride height with 17s should be fine. And just for your info, if you don't want a 2 inch drop, you won't want to get the Alston CW clip. From what I know, they do not offer it any other way except 2 inch dropped. I agree its the best aftermarket bolt on clip out there. so I'm not knocking it at all. I just thought I'd share that with you.



Johnny,

Whose spindles are you going to use? I think Heidt's stock height spindles are just factory cast MII spindles. They aren't forged like the dropped ones. Is that any concern to you? I've kinda read on here before that the cast ones will have problems, unlike forged. Any thoughts?

I wanted to add, on one of Johns web sites above they pointed out the weight difference between the standard brakes and the Willwoods being about one pound. That's a lot a ****$ when you can buy light wheels for less. The other thing I keep reading is with todays pad material drilled and slotted are not only unnecessary but detract from braking performance. They are still sold because everyone thinks they look cool. I am going with the 11" rotors sold everywhere and with the rear disc I picked up from the camaro I think I'll stop just fine. JMHO:rolleyes:

i can't tell ya for sure... but i know Heidt's dropped spindles won the SEMA award in '95 i believe when they came out... i doubt they're second class pieces.

i can't tell ya for sure... but i know Heidt's dropped spindles won the SEMA award in '95 i believe when they came out... i doubt they're second class pieces.

That's good to know. I guess I should call Heidts and find out right from them. I've been debating back and forth for a while now about keeping the 2 inch droppers that came with my car, or going with the stock height ones. I think my best bet will be to wait until the car is a primered rolling chassis with the final wheels on it, and see what I think as far as looks. Then start jacking it up and see what it looks like. I like the lowered look, but I'm worried about losing my oil pan because of it.:eek:

I'm waiting for a PM response from a guy who has the TCI kit with 2 inch droppers on it. I asked him what his lowest clearance measurement is.

Hey MAZZ63II
One other option you may want to consider. I bought two pair of rotors, one with the Chevys 4.75x5 and one set with the f@rds 4.5x5 bolt pattern. I had an 8" rear out of a pinto/ mustang II and from what I have measured it will bolt right on my leafs and work great. Point is the f@rd wheel selection for backspace increases your options. Jus somthin to think about.:)



:cool:

John , what is your lowest clearing point? And what is the clearance measurement?

I just realized that you were pointing the question at me, I think!:o If so, the lowest point on the car is at the bottom of the cowl. It's 4 1/2"! When Rodger and I were designing the chassis I specified that I didn't want anything hanging under the rocker line so that we could get the car real low and not have scraping issues!

John

I wanted to add, on one of Johns web sites above they pointed out the weight difference between the standard brakes and the Willwoods being about one pound. That's a lot a ****$ when you can buy light wheels for less. The other thing I keep reading is with todays pad material drilled and slotted are not only unnecessary but detract from braking performance. They are still sold because everyone thinks they look cool. I am going with the 11" rotors sold everywhere and with the rear disc I picked up from the camaro I think I'll stop just fine. JMHO:rolleyes:

Agreed except for the difference in Wilwood to stock brake systems! Cars with stock brake systems stop fine for normal driving or even lightly beating on them but when you are coming into a 90* turn at 130 mph and you have to slow down to 40 mph repeatedly this is where the Wilwood system will truly shine! I just bought a used '03 Mustang GT to build into a track car to beat on at Buttonwillow and other road race venues. I'm going to run it for the first time out this friday and I already know that the stock brakes are going to get fried! Wilwood brakes are first and foremost engineered for racing environments! Sure they look cool cruising but brakes for high stress environments is what the company focuses on!

Make sure you click on the link below and read all the other links:

http://www.raceshopper.com/tech.shtml

There is a lot of good information for you to use when setting up your braking system!

When Wilwood agreed to sponsor the car they wanted to send me drilled and slotted rotors but I told them I only wanted the rotors slotted since when you drill rotors they will crack after some degree of abuse! Slotted rotors will help with heat dissipation without the issue of cracking! The funny part is that there is a big misconception that drilled rotors will dissipate heat better but this is not true! If you're building a showcar that you won't be tracking or dragging but only cruising then drilled rotors are fine(But then again, why would you need to have them drilled since cruising won't heat them up enough to take advantage of the heat dissipation that drilling is supposed to afford you!) but when I talk to people that tell me that they drilled the rotors for better heat dissipation I try and tell them politely that that is not exactly true and that, in reality, it makes the rotor more susceptible to cracking and warping!

Wilwood Rear Disc Brakes that are going on the car!

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/novanutcase/shoppics8-16-07021.jpg

John

Agreed except for the difference in Wilwood to stock brake systems! Cars with stock brake systems stop fine for normal driving or even lightly beating on them but when you are coming into a 90* turn at 130 mph and you have to slow down to 40 mph repeatedly this is where the Wilwood system will truly shine!


Is this what it's like driving in L.A.:eek::eek::eek:

Agreed except for the difference in Wilwood to stock brake systems! Cars with stock brake systems stop fine for normal driving or even lightly beating on them but when you are coming into a 90* turn at 130 mph and you have to slow down to 40 mph repeatedly this is where the Wilwood system will truly shine!


Is this what it's like driving in L.A.:eek::eek::eek:

LOL!!! NO! In L.A. you don't need brakes since traffic is so jammed up! All ya gotta do is move the 3 feet the car in front of you moves every 10 minutes and stick your foot out to stop!:beat::rolleyes::D

John

LOL!!! NO! In L.A. you don't need brakes since traffic is so jammed up! All ya gotta do is move the 3 feet the car in front of you moves every 10 minutes and stick your foot out to stop!:beat::rolleyes::D

John

Yea, Obviously Argrandawg has never encountered the 405 or the 101. I hate those freeways!

66Badboy , I PMed you a little while ago about the clearance issue on the crossmember w/TCI clip and 2" dropped spindles , I said about 4-4 1/2" but I got curious and went and measured . It was 3 3/8" ! ! ! , but....... I am running a P195/65/15 tire which is 24" tall . Alot of good points have been made on this thread , but some have not been addressed , such as :
1. proper relationship between the crossmember and the lower A-arm (pointed up,level,pointed down)IE If you want a lowered stance with the lower A-arm level and a dropped spindle vs a lowered stance with the lower A-arm pointed up and a stock spindle .
2. You need to take into consideration the height of the tire you are going to run IE you could run a lower stance with a taller tire to achive the right tire/fenderwell look and gain a little clearance .
3.The "look" is what we're all after and sometimes it's give and take to achive that . (What's the point of having 6" of clearance if the car looks like it's up on it's tippy toes all the time ?)
Terry

I just realized that you were pointing the question at me, I think!:o If so, the lowest point on the car is at the bottom of the cowl. It's 4 1/2"! When Rodger and I were designing the chassis I specified that I didn't want anything hanging under the rocker line so that we could get the car real low and not have scraping issues!

John

Actually, I was talking to the Flyer, but I am glad you posted anyways. Kinda curious about that anyways. Thnanks for hijacking Flyer's response!!!!:p:p:p


66Badboy , I PMed you a little while ago about the clearance issue on the crossmember w/TCI clip and 2" dropped spindles , I said about 4-4 1/2" but I got curious and went and measured . It was 3 3/8" ! ! ! , but....... I am running a P195/65/15 tire which is 24" tall . Alot of good points have been made on this thread , but some have not been addressed , such as :
1. proper relationship between the crossmember and the lower A-arm (pointed up,level,pointed down)IE If you want a lowered stance with the lower A-arm level and a dropped spindle vs a lowered stance with the lower A-arm pointed up and a stock spindle .
2. You need to take into consideration the height of the tire you are going to run IE you could run a lower stance with a taller tire to achive the right tire/fenderwell look and gain a little clearance .
3.The "look" is what we're all after and sometimes it's give and take to achive that . (What's the point of having 6" of clearance if the car looks like it's up on it's tippy toes all the time ?)
Terry


Got yer PM. THanks. I think you're right. It's impossible to have the best of both - low look and high clearance. And it is give or take.


If I remember right, Batman and Funky have 17s on there cars with stock front suspensions. I wonder what their clearances are????

To those who have Checkerd clips, what springs ya got? Do I just go with what they recomend(SBC)? Just a cruiser and occasional drag car(no road racing).

To those who have Checkerd clips, what springs ya got? Do I just go with what they recomend(SBC)? Just a cruiser and occasional drag car(no road racing).

I went with what they recommend. I believe 450 lbs with an SBC, but don't remember for sure?:confused:

If you are gong to install Wilwood brakes on Mustang II spindles here is some info you will find interesting. The Kit tht Wilwood sells actually moves the wheels ouboard about 5/8". If you are sitting at stock height this probably will not be a problem. If you are lowered with wide tires it may cause some rubbing issues.
When you get the Wilwood brake upgrade from Heidts they use a different hub that is dimensionally the same as a 75-80 Granda rotor which is the rotor they use on their standard brakes with the GM metric calipers. They make their own special caliper brackets that bolt to the stock caliper mounts on the Mustang II spindle. The Wilwood brackets mount to the dust shield bolt holes. This applies to 11, 12 or 13 inch rotors. They all use the same billet hub with a different bolt-on rotor.
Tim