Watt's Link

There are 2 different designs that 2 of you have used. Fays2 http://fays2.net/ and Totally Polished http://totallypolished.com/watt's_link_kits.shtml.

Both of these designs do the same thing, but does one work better than the other?

THe only real difference is the fays2 puts more of the weight on the sprung end of things, and the TP kit is more weighted more on the unsprung side. I think either way it will make a very minor difference for a street car though.

Other than that....a watts link is a watts link.

THe only real difference is the fays2 puts more of the weight on the sprung end of things, and the TP kit is more weighted more on the unsprung side. I think either way it will make a very minor difference for a street car though.

Other than that....a watts link is a watts link.

Pretty much what I thought. What are your plans for attaching the watts link to the frame on your car?

Just some 1/4" plate brackets, one has to drop down quite far, the other will be a couple inches from the bottom of the frame rail.

Just like these
http://totallypolished.com/watts/DSC00070.JPG

NICE!!! Was that done on the waterjet or laser?

Those arent mine, but i dont know what they were done on....

I know the panhard bar does not get much positive press on this site but properly designed [as long as mechanically possible] produces the lightest unsprung weight with very little side movement in a pro-touring environment. I'm hoping to run a truck arm rear on my 67 and using a rear end out of a 68-72 nova I should be able to run a panhard bar of over fifty inches. My suspension will only have about five inches of vertical travel so my side to side will be almost nonexistent. My math shows side to side movement of .07" top to bottom. Thats seven one-hundredths of an inch!!

I know the panhard bar does not get much positive press on this site but properly designed [as long as mechanically possible] produces the lightest unsprung weight with very little side movement in a pro-touring environment. I'm hoping to run a truck arm rear on my 67 and using a rear end out of a 68-72 nova I should be able to run a panhard bar of over fifty inches. My suspension will only have about five inches of vertical travel so my side to side will be almost nonexistent. My math shows side to side movement of .07" top to bottom. Thats seven one-hundredths of an inch!!

That is not much side to side movement at all. That is exactly what I am looking for. Fifty inches is a very long panhard bar. A panhard bar is still an option for me. I am not near my car at the moment, but if I was to go with a panhard bar, it could be anywhere around 28" to 35." My rear shocks have 5.15" of travel (that is extended all the way), probably the same as your shocks.

The beauty of a panhard bar is the adjustability as well as weight. If you get the opportunity to get out on a track and make tuning changes you will really appreciate the panhard bar. Realize your wheels can move up and down more than the shocks depending on how they are mounted. With a good sway bar lateral movement is easily controlled. These are just two reasons why cup teams use these on road courses as well as circle tracks.

A thirty-five inch panhard bar produces less than one tenth inch side to side movement over five vertical inches.

A thirty-five inch panhard bar produces less than one tenth inch side to side movement over five vertical inches.

Wow so I was worried for nothing....lol. Oh well, when people look underneath most will probly say..."*** is that???"

Here's what Ron Showers of Auto Weld Chassis says about the three main types of conventional locators. He sells all three although I don't think he does Watt's links:

WISHBONE TRACK LOCATORS: Look just like a wishbone. They are the best for all 4-link applications whether competition or pro street. They keep your rear on center but do not put a load on the 4-link, such as with a diagonal type, and work independently of the 4-link. This type is used not only in drag racing but in other motor sports as well. Our wishbone track locators come standard with space-age plastic snap-in bushings. No metal to metal and no greasing. Easily replaced too!!

DIAGONAL TRACK LOCATOR: This is situated between ladder bars in a diagonal position (as illustrated in our ladder suspension kit.) For competition use only! Watch out!! Unlike our mega quality locators, some track locators can bend!!!

PANHARD BAR TRACK LOCATOR: This is a link that is fastened to the frame on one side of the car and runs to the opposite side while being fastened to the rear, (used by most car manufacturers on cars with coil spring suspensions.) Some chassis builders are offering panhard bars for pro street applications. If it's not bad enough using to use competition ladder bars on the street, the problems are made even worse when using a panhard bar in conjunction with them!! Since a panhard bar works on an arc, it actually pulls the rear from side to side when it moves up and down. If you have competition ladder bars with solid rod ends in the back, the panhard bar is actually trying to pull them in a manner in which they are not designed to move, actually causing a binding effect. The result is a harsh ride, maybe a broken part. The only way you should use a panhard bar with ladder bars is if the ladder bars are urethane bushed and panhard bars are also urethane bushed, such as in our pro street kits.

http://autoweldchassis.com/hardware.ivnu

As soon as I got to his site I realized this was a drag type Guru and not pro-touring or road race. Every panhard bar I have ever seen on a drag car is under twenty-four inches long. You just don't get good results from that length of bar. Not in road race form anyway. This is why no one uses them any more. No one would ever choose to run a ladder bar on a road race car so why go there for expert advice for a road race car. We as an automotive society have fallen into the trap that only the best will do and one one thousands either side is just unacceptable. When you go to road races and even more so circle track races you see folks running systems that are not always touted as the best but they are still winning. Well designed panhard bars will match anything in practical racing [Cup and lower] if your driving at such a level that thousands of an inch control your destiny I hope for your sake you are paid well for it.

Ron Showers is one of the most-famous race car fabricators in the country. He does do primarily drag cars but he is also a famous street rod builder too. A circle track car is a different animal from a car you would be driving on the street too. I run solid ends on my 4-link and bushed ends on the wishbone. Great ride on the street and launches straight at the strip.

The Watt's link is cool. The only thing I wouldn't like about it on a pro-touring car is the inability to run the exhaust out the back. I have plenty of friends with pro-street cars with diagonal links. None of them ride as nice as mine does on the street though.

I see what you're saying about a longer link loading the rear less, but it still puts a load on it to some extent.

I don't think it's fair to compare diagonal links to a panhard bar across the rear of the rear end. I have no doubt Ron may have forgotten more than we will ever know about drag and hot rod set ups but road race and circle track and pro-touring are completely different than anything in a straight line. I just don't see his expertise crossing over to cars designed to turn fast. I have read diagonals are more for straight line. I've never seen that on a road race type car. Two different things.

FWIW you could take a race car design and soften the springs, shocks and sway bars and have a very nice compliant riding car. The geometry would not have to change all that much if any.

Decisions, Decisoins. There are just too many decisions to make while trying to build a car.

As soon as I got to his site I realized this was a drag type Guru and not pro-touring or road race. Every panhard bar I have ever seen on a drag car is under twenty-four inches long. You just don't get good results from that length of bar. Not in road race form anyway. This is why no one uses them any more. No one would ever choose to run a ladder bar on a road race car so why go there for expert advice for a road race car. We as an automotive society have fallen into the trap that only the best will do and one one thousands either side is just unacceptable. When you go to road races and even more so circle track races you see folks running systems that are not always touted as the best but they are still winning. Well designed panhard bars will match anything in practical racing [Cup and lower] if your driving at such a level that thousands of an inch control your destiny I hope for your sake you are paid well for it.

I have never built a street car, this is my first time. I am only 22, but I have been around circle track racing since I was 6 years old. I have learned a lot since I have been racing. I have had cars with 10" panhard bars up to 18.75." I know the car is made to go in a circle (put this aside), but a short panhard bar is terrible for road racing or anything on the street. It makes for a very wild setup when I just test the car on the street by my shop. So, I think a long panhard bar would handle very well with the proper adjustments. I would rather my car handle better than launch like a drag car.