Problems:CPP upper ball joint nut installation

Here is a few pictures of the nut that goes on the upper ball for the new control arms. The first picture is with the nut that come with the kit. It will barely make a full nut on the stud. The second picture is with a cotter pin nut off the old ball joints. The spindle will not go any further up on the ball joint. As you can see it needs to go up on the ball joint further using both nuts I think. You can also see how much of the joint shaft is exposed too and I know the boot will fill up with grease too. Do you guys think possible got the wrong upper ball joint or put the nut on that come with the kit and run it. It is a self locking nut. I did call CPP but the tech people not there today I will call back Monday.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/ss66nova/uppercontrolballjoint3.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/ss66nova/uppercontrolballjoint2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/ss66nova/Uppercontrolballjoint1.jpg

I cranked on it and once it was seated all the way I have just enough to get the cotter pin in.

The ball joint nut off a Pinto is 1/2 the thickness.It will work .

In your third picture you can clearly see it needs to go down more. If it will not tighten down and seat flush then it is either not the right ball joint or the spindle is wrong. Either way you can't run it like that.

Well I called CPP Tech and the guy said I was OK to run with just barely a full nut on the ball joint that was supplied with the kit. I will put some lock-tite on the threads and tighten it down (I guess). I would rather be able to use a cotter pin but he also said to look at the new GMC trucks they dont use cotter pins. So I dont know what do you guys think!!!!!!!
These are the factory correct spindles for this car.

SAFETY FIRST.....you need to use the cotter-key. If you don't, call me before you get on the road because I will get off:eek:

I don't care what the new GMCs do or don't use, I would not feel comfortable without the nuts beong pinned. The suggestion of the thinner nut would be a better idea in my mind than locktite. Are you sure that the holes are not distorted keeping them from fully seating. Like was previously said, that third picture looks like it is not completely seated.

T. Jerman, this is a common problem that people are running into when installing the kit. Do a search for 'cotter' in this forum to see what I mean. Here's a good quote from Coprod:

"I used a tall suspension/transmission jack to push up on the lower A-Arm, then I would tighten the nut , jack up the A-arm a little , tighten the nut until I got it to clear the cotter pin hole...actually went very smooth...also make sure your are going into the spindle,centered/straight, so you don't get it in a bind and I also put a little grease on it."

I would be willing to bet once you cranked the castle nut down that the nut will be far enough up to allow a cotter pin. If you can't get it in there go to the local parts store and look in their help section or bolt/nut drawers for castle nuts that are more shallow. I have a drawer full of shallow castle nuts. I just would not trust a ball joint hanging on by a lock nut even with loc-tite but that's just me. It would probably work with no problems at all but I wouldn't want to find out.:eek:

I'm telling you guys that the spindle is fully seat in the ball joint on these picture.
In these pictures I used a wrench on the nut and I was pulling pretty hard. No I didnt like the idea of running without a cotter pin and if can help I WONT.
I will have to look for a shallower nut I guess.
I roughly meas. the inside dia. on the spindle on the top of the hole and the bottom. The top and .620 and the bott. .528 and its .760 long in the taper. With these meas. thats all the further the spindle will go on the joint.
Has anybody else had this problem the new upper control arm ball joints??
And guys this is not the first time I had a spindle off the ball joint!!

I'm telling you guys that the spindle is fully seat in the ball joint on these picture.
In these pictures I used a wrench on the nut and I was pulling pretty hard. No I didnt like the idea of running without a cotter pin and if can help I WONT.
I will have to look for a shallower nut I guess.
I roughly meas. the inside dia. on the spindle on the top of the hole and the bottom. The top and .620 and the bott. .528 and its .760 long in the taper. With these meas. thats all the further the spindle will go on the joint.
Has anybody else had this problem the new upper control arm ball joints??
And guys this is not the first time I had a spindle off the ball joint!!

The ball joint is NOT seated in this picture. You better get a second opinion on what you're doing...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/ss66nova/Uppercontrolballjoint1.jpg

Im guessin thats not the right ball joint. Several different ones for different models are pretty close in size and taper and will usually even fit in other model spindles. But they wont seat right, leaving a small gap at the top or bottom.

If you think this ball joint is not seated maybe you should get a 2nd opinion on what you know as a MECHANIC!!!!;) And from what I remember I'm here looking at it and your not unless you have some special glasses to see that from where your at at that angle thru the spindle. And let me know when and where you are driving so I'm not behind when stuff is far off your car.:D I went and took a couple of picture to show you guys that this things is seated. I even took a torque wrench and torque the nut to 50lbs.
So if it wasn't seated before it is now. Take a look and see as it will not go on any further.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/ss66nova/Upperballjoint1.jpg
On the bottom picture as may appear as it not seated that is where the threads end and the taper starts. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c160/ss66nova/Upperballjoint2.jpg

I would use a narrower castle nut, torque it to specs, run a cotter pin it it and call it a day.;) :D :beer: Assuming you don't run out of threads.

Thanks for the info. I believe thats what I'm going to do. Again thanks I'll start looking tommorrow.

Is there any reason why you have to use the balljoints provided in the CPP kit? Wouldn't another manufacturer's replacement balljoints work?

This is making me a bit nervous about starting my own CPP kit install. :eek:

So theres absolutely no space at the bottom? It may just be the pic. If its a perfect fit, top and bottom, no gaps whatsoever, then I agree, just tighten her up and use a cotter pin. Id check it after a few drives also, to make sure everythings copacetic :)

novatorius rex: there is reason why i couldn't go out buy different ball joint but I would think if they are going to sell a kit with the parts the parts should fit correctly or refund some money or get the right parts agree.

cdjr: the problem is i can't get a cotter pin in the hole with it like that. yes its tight top and bottom but the spindle needs to go further up on the ball joint for this to happen about 1/8".

thanks

Is there any reason why you have to use the balljoints provided in the CPP kit? Wouldn't another manufacturer's replacement balljoints work?

CPP had the best quality ball joints for 1st gens, even the TRW/moog replacements are not as good as CPP.

Jack

novatorius rex: there is reason why i couldn't go out buy different ball joint but I would think if they are going to sell a kit with the parts the parts should fit correctly or refund some money or get the right parts agree.

I wasn't recommending buying another set, I was just wondering out loud if this is a problem unique to the ones CPP is shipping. If they're shipping a part that doesn't fit right, it needs to be fixed! :awkward:

CPP had the best quality ball joints for 1st gens, even the TRW/moog replacements are not as good as CPP.

But.....they don't appear to fit properly in OEM spindles. This isn't the first I've read about this problem on Steve's site. The ball joints CPP provides could be gold plated, but if they don't fit properly, what's the benefit?? :confused:

-Just trying to play devil's advocate here to make a point. :)