Floor Pan Repair - 1st Gen

[Greg_R_63]

Next in my series of Death by Photography(TM) rambling repair diaries, is about the front passenger side floor pan on my 63 coupe. Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm doing with this stuff. If you're looking for an expert guide, this ain't it. My only redeeming quality is that I have a camera, and refuse to quit. That said, here we go.

Surveying the damage.

This first pic was taken back on 10/24/05. It's what I saw when I pulled back the carpet. As you can see, the toe board is a complete loss, as is the floor pan back to the front seat mounting holes:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan10_24_05.jpg

Here's a wider view of the damage with the carpet and seats out. You can also see my hole-y kick panel, before repair:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingfloorpanrust.jpg

After gutting the interior and grinding off 95% of the grime and old primer, I cut out the worst of the rust, just because:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingfloorpan.jpg

Knowing what you have to work with.

I got my passenger side replacement floor pan from NIGHTSHADE. It doesn't go very high up in the toe pan area, and, it's not formed correctly at the front seam. The way the factory did it, the floor pan is folded downward on the outer edge, and pinch welded to the rocker rail. Forward of the seam, the edge of the toe board area is folded up to meet the kick panel section. It can be made to work, but I was lucky enough to get an original toe board section from another member:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_10_06-020.jpg


Locating the seat mounting holes, deciding where to cut.
At CustomJim's suggestion, I'm taking the repair all the way back to the floorpan crossmember, which sits under the rear front seat mounting points. Structurally, it's the soundest place to make the repair. Even if all my welds somehow gave way, the repair section isn't going anywhere. So, here's my cut line, right through the middle of the crossmember. I also circled the spot welds, though of course only the forward row of spot welds (to the right) will have to be cut out:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_10_06-014.jpg

Here I used a carpenter's square to measure at a right angle from the rocker rail, and locate the center points of my seat mounting holes:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_10_06-012.jpg

Here's the underside view, where you can see the crossmember, and a bracket for the outer front seat mount that I will have to separate from the floor pan and weld to the repair panel. And also, how much old oil is caked on the bottom of my car :rolleyes: :
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_10_06-017.jpg

To be continued.

[JJ66-Dad]

Looks like you have an idea what you're doing. Great picts to be used by someone headed in the same direction... nice work.

[Greg_R_63]

Thanks! My hope is that the forum stays stable, and my image hosting, for the long term, and that someone'll be able to use it as a reference one day.

[Lane]

Unfortunately that looks all too familiar.. I am in the process of the exact same thing right now. Just finished the passengers side - and am about to start cutting the drivers side out.

My car had damage even higher up on the toe board, which I just used 22 ga sheet metal to repair.

I had some issue with the new pan not matching up completely with the factory braces, but made it work.

Looks like you're doing a great job. Good luck with the rest!

[NIGHTSHADE]

Looking good so far. And I too will be going through this shortly with the 4door.

I for one am very curious about how the floor pan will fit. Not just for my usage but for others as well.

Greg, could you elaborate a little more on the differances in the pan from the original area. Is the seam area a "poor" fit or is it just that the seam is molded and not really a seam any longer??

[Greg_R_63]

Looking good so far. And I too will be going through this shortly with the 4door.

I for one am very curious about how the floor pan will fit. Not just for my usage but for others as well.

Greg, could you elaborate a little more on the differances in the pan from the original area. Is the seam area a "poor" fit or is it just that the seam is molded and not really a seam any longer??

That's part of it. I tried to illustrate what I'm talking about. The factory toeboard, on top, has an edge flap that is pointed up. The rest of the floorboard has an edge flap that is pointed down. The replacement piece, below, is folded down, down the whole edge. You can probably fix this with a pair of snips and pliers, but I'm not so sure about the location of the corner on the replacement, either. Again, nothing a little banging on couldn't fix:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpancomparison.jpg

[JJ66-Dad]

Thanks! My hope is that the forum stays stable, and my image hosting, for the long term, and that someone'll be able to use it as a reference one day.

Just in case, take the posts along with the pictures and save it off in a WORD document. If it ever is lost in this forum and another member is looking for the info, it'll be easy to ressurect.

I just got through the same floor pan replacement with my 66 Chevelle SS, I also replace the trunk, rear tail panel, rear window to trunk filler panel and various other pieces on the Chevelle SS that had been rotted out. I received 95% of my sheetmetal from NIGHTSHADE (GoodMark). I'd have to say I was very happy with the fit. As expected with almost any reproduction part, some areas didn't fit "exactly" but they were pretty close, just needed some adjustment - trim here and there - MUCH better than what I pulled out :)

[Carl Stevenson]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the pics!

I got my pans from Nightshade last week, and hope to start in the next week or two. The pics help a lot, keep up the posting please!:D

[Greg_R_63]

Creeping up on it.
More metal removed:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_11_06-001.jpg

[Carl Stevenson]

Greg

A friend on mine was just here looking at my Acadian floor pan project. He has taught autobody at our local high school for about 25 years. I was telling him I hope to start soon. He said to make SURE that I block up the car from underneath in many areas. Also he said as I am cutting to keep checking the gaps to make sure nothing is sagging. Also he said not to be kneeling on the sill when I am welding or cutting. I never asked him, but I assume that I could kneel on there as long as I have it well supported. I wanted to make sure to mention this to you as I see you working on yours.

Carl

[Greg_R_63]

Good points, Carl. I currently have jackstands under the front frame members, and the rear is on the wheels. The car is sitting at ride height, so I'm not worried about any big changes when the front wheels go back on. The front floor pan is pretty well boxed in, with the rocker rail to the outside, the front subframe in front, the crossmember that I'm cutting to in back, and the transmission hump to the other side. I've been watching carefully, and I really don't see much chance of flexing while working on this particular area, since the car is level.

[Greg_R_63]

Ok, as of last night, I'm much closer to having my final cut. All pitted metal is now removed. I will probably cut higher on the transmission hump side, so that I will minimize my trimming on the new panel. It's time to clean and cut the toe board patch from the donor metal, and also I'll take this opportunity to clean out the exposed floor braces and paint them on the inside with rust preventative. As you can see, my cut to the rear is straight down the middle of one of the braces:

http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_13_06-004.jpg

[Carl Stevenson]

Any more progress or pics?

I was out measuring on mine tonight. I took a bunch of dimensions for the seat track holes using the sill plate screw holes as reference. I made up a page for each side showing dimensions so I have something to go from once the floor looks like yours. I think I will be putting in the whole pan up to the front seam though.

I am a bit concerned about the rails that come back from the front under the floor pan. Will they not sag at the rear if I have the trans crossmember attatched? Even without it, will they stay in place?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0756.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0755.jpg

[BRETTZER]

Hey Greg,

making good progress. I went through the same battles you have been...floor,side cowls,etc. Just wanted to throw something at you in case you didn't consider it. How you split the pan along the center of the cross brace, that will work good to hide the weld underneath, and save alot of grinding and smoothing. But make sure you use the holes in the braces to hose in some undercoating when the new pan is welded in together because you will have bare weld exposed to the moisture that will collect inside if you don't treat it, plus the burn away of any coating in there from the welding. I had to put new braces on mine, so I was able to treat all the metal where the pans came together before spot welding the braces back on. Just trying to save you a hidden rusting zone after all the hard work

Brett

[Greg_R_63]

Brett, I did NOT think about the bottom side of that weld, so thanks! Now I'll have to figure out how to get something through those little access holes. Boy, it sure would be nice to have an air compressor.

[Greg_R_63]

Made some good progress this week on the floor pan. I should finish within a week, work permitting.

Cleaning out the floor braces
The front floor brace was full of a mixture of motor oil and mud. Fortunately, it seems to be a pretty good rust preventative:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_20_06-002.jpg

After scooping it out with a chisel and wire wheeling the inside and the edges, I hit it with a coat of master series silver. I probably will spray some truck bed liner inside as well:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_20_06-030.jpg


Cutting the toe board patch
After cutting away most of the un-needed parts of the toe board, and cleaning off the surface rust and old primer, I clamped the rough patch in place:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_20_06-032.jpg

Then I went around to the outside of the patch, and traced my cut opening with a sharpie, then clamped the patch in the vise for cutting. I stuck to the outside of the lines:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_20_06-036.jpg

It's a pretty good fit. I did some hammer and dolly work to straighten it out after drilling out the spotwelds and prying it away from the subframe member:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_20_06-040.jpg
I'll mark the holes that are on top of the frame member in this picture, then grind away those areas, but leave the rest of it as protected as possible.

Those welding magnets work pretty good in a situation like this to pull your surfaces level:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_20_06-041.jpg

Almost ready to weld
Now both patches are cut, and fit well, though they are not quite in perfect position here, you get the point. What remains now is to clean the underside edges of all my weld seams to encourage a clean weld, and drill all my plug weld holes:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/floorpan/floorpan9_20_06-043.jpg

[skrymir]

Man you make that look too easy. I am insanly jealous.:awkward:

[Carl Stevenson]

Great work. You are a real inspiration for me to get going on mine. I just won't have time to for the next 2 weeks or so, but then I hope it's full speed ahead!

Thanks again, and keep it coming:D

[bbqrat]

Nice clean up on the floor pan, what did you use??

[Greg_R_63]

Thanks, guys! It's good to know people are watching what I'm doing, helps keep me motivated. Of course, I'd really like to drive the car...:D

bbqrat, I have stripped almost the entire car with those paint/rust stripper discs by 3M that attach to a drill.
Here's a thread about it (http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40311). They are made of a hard, sponge-like black nylon material, and look like hockey pucks on sticks. There is a one layer and two layer version. I find the 3M brand to be superior to Norton, which has an almost identical product.

[chuckha62]

Been following this too, Greg. Great job. I know how much work this sort of thing is, 'cus I'm doing something similar, but not quite as extensive on my son's truck. Way to go!

...and thanks again!

Chuck

[dave's 62]

that looks good but i am needing a full pan. mine is total loss. should iput cross braces in the cab before cutting?

[65IIba64]

Great info here! I just started on the welding portion of my project, and let me tell ya, it's a real pain.

I have a question though. What are you going to use to coat and seal the welds?

[Greg_R_63]

Great info here! I just started on the welding portion of my project, and let me tell ya, it's a real pain.

I have a question though. What are you going to use to coat and seal the welds?

Of course the standard thing is factory style seam sealer, but if you look in the cowl sides thread, what I am doing is using Master Series Silver, a thick, rust preventative primer, and then covering that with Duplicolor spray can truck bed liner. To me, it looks like a tough combo to beat. The only unknown is how well the liner will stay adhered to the MS in the long run, but I feel good about it.

[acd65post]

Lookin good ! Keep up the hard work !

[Greg_R_63]

Lookin good ! Keep up the hard work !

Thanks! I did get the pan welded in, but at the beginning of October, I got a bad case of the "holiday slack" and the Nova project took a backseat to everything else (Halloween is a big deal at my house ;) ). With winter being so mild, the itch is back. We'll see how soon that translates into real updates to this thread.

[65IIba64]

I agree about the mild winter giving you the bug. Today was a nice day, with a little bit of snow, but still in the mid-30's. I got the itch and welded in one of the pans. First time I've worked on the car since...mid September:eek:.

I'll try out that theory of Master Series Silver and bed liner. Sounds good.

Thanks.

[Carl Stevenson]

Oh boy, good to see I'm not the only slacker. I haven't touched my car in close to 2 months it seems like.

'Course, back trouble and then a broken big toe didn't help anything:(

[2 black ragtops]

no,no no,don't weld that floor pan to that cylinder head!!!(one of the previous pic's)it will be way to hard to set the valves!!!.lol hahaha

looking good man!
can i suggest a good quality weld-through primer instead of your other paint choice??
the weld thru primer will allow you to weld without having to grind and expose fresh clean metal again.if you don't grind it,you'll compromise your weld penetration and consistancy.good welding primer is also rich in zinc and is an excellent rust inhibitor.
other than that you're doing a great job!!!
carl.

[65IIba64]

looking good man!
can i suggest a good quality weld-through primer instead of your other paint choice??
the weld thru primer will allow you to weld without having to grind and expose fresh clean metal again.if you don't grind it,you'll compromise your weld penetration and consistancy.good welding primer is also rich in zinc and is an excellent rust inhibitor.
other than that you're doing a great job!!!
carl.

Don't know the policy here at Steves, but do you suggest any brand?

[Greg_R_63]

can i suggest a good quality weld-through primer instead of your other paint choice??
the weld thru primer will allow you to weld without having to grind and expose fresh clean metal again.if you don't grind it,you'll compromise your weld penetration and consistancy.good welding primer is also rich in zinc and is an excellent rust inhibitor.
other than that you're doing a great job!!!
carl.

Thanks Carl!

Here's my situation, I'm without a compressor, and even if I did have one worthy of shooting paint, I don't have the wiring in my 50 year old, one car garage (which I am renting) to support it. Basically, I can't shoot primer unless it's from a can. So far, the areas that I have primed and then needed to weld are minimal. When that happens, I just take it back off with a Roloc on a drill, no problem. I'm using the master series on just about everything that won't have exterior paint on it, but it's going on after I finish welding. So far, so good.

[2 black ragtops]

no probs on the primer!!! it's only sold in aerosol form.as stated earlier the roloc is great for stripping,but in our damp west coast climate we've learned a few things about rust and rust protection.by stripping away more than the welded area,you are potentionally setting up a starting point for new rust.between layers. rust will creep over time.the other product i LOVE is structural panel bond.basically it's a glue made for steel.what i really like about it is that it's "self cotterizing" meaning that it bonds and creates a seam seal at the same time.really slick product,no welding required and structurally stronger than welding.i like 3m,norton,and fuzor's product lines.downside is it is costly and you need a special applicator gun.but if power supply is the problem,it can all be done with hand tools.

a previous member asked what brand of weld through primer i use.ican't recall the brand,but ANY welding supply shop will sell it and it's pretty inexpensive.

by the way i do have pretty good idea what i'm talking about as i own a busy bodyshop and we've done several 1st gen cars.not bragging guys,i just want you to know i'm not a clown with the wrong info.
carl.

[Carl Stevenson]

Oh boy, good to see I'm not the only slacker. I haven't touched my car in close to 2 months it seems like.

'Course, back trouble and then a broken big toe didn't help anything:(

I hope you don't mind if I put an update in your floor pan thread. Reading it has kept me inspired, and now that my toe is healed, and my back seems to be feeling better, I'm at it again. Man, that's a lot of holes to measure up and then drill!

Progress pic, ready to do the butt welding---

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0544.jpg

[tsimpson]

Looks like your ready to start welding. Looks great:D

[NIGHTSHADE]

Looks like great minds think alike, huh Carl!!

Your doing great!

[Carl Stevenson]

Thanks! It's supposed to be nicer out this next week, so I may do a bunch of spot welds and then roll it outside to do the rest of the welds. I work in the attatched garage, and the smoke from a lot of welding seems to somehow get in here a bit. Besides, I like having the fresh air when I weld, too.

Fun job, actually!

[Greg_R_63]

Looking good! Some day, I will have to polish this off with an 'after' shot. Before that though, I will have a thread for you all about two full quarter panels. :D Stay tuned.

[Carl Stevenson]

Well, got my 3 top sides welded up, and most of the grinding done. That sure is a lot of grinding to butt it! Still have to plug weld the floor supports, and the one bucket seat support on the bottom. Also the lip that hangs down and butts up against the inner rocker still left to do. I am definitely not the fastest worker.....

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0580.jpg

[NIGHTSHADE]

Looks like fine work to me Carl!

Are you going to cut out the plug holes and put in the screw down covers to make it look more correct??

[Carl Stevenson]

At first I said no, but I have re-thought that. I think I am going to, just for authenticity.

Hey, are you getting nailed by some major snow right now? The satellite pic looks pretty ugly over St. C right now.

[Carl Stevenson]

Started fitting the drivers side now. I am REALLY enjoying doing this!!! It's actually a lot of fun. Takes some time and patience, but all in all, a fun project that I've never tried before.

I have to do a minor repair to the toe board. You can see where I cut out the old "mini" patch I put in at the seam

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0588.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0589.jpg





Am I the only one whose work area looks like this when you are hard at it, or is there more like me out there?:D

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0593.jpg

[Carl Stevenson]

Getting there......... Anyone have a tunnel they want to sell me to fill the hole where the automatic hump was?

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0658.jpg

[Greg_R_63]

Am I the only one whose work area looks like this when you are hard at it, or is there more like me out there?:D



That is clean compared to how I leave it. :D Must be all the grinding. :D Good job, Carl! Way to keep at it.

I ended up working out a trade deal to get my quarter panels done, and have been taking pics every step of the way, so there'll be one more sheet metal thread from me before it's done.

[65IIba64]

I envy you and your solid toeboards. LOL.

[Carl Stevenson]

I envy you and your solid toeboards. LOL.


I am thankful for that, yup. I have sure seen a lot worse. The pans really weren't that bad, but Nightshade sells the new floor pans so cheap, it really wasn't worth trying to repair the few spots on mine. The worst was the piece above the floor supports. The rest I could have fixed with a few tiny patches.

Drivers side almost welded in. I may have time to finish it tonight. Progress pics will happen if I finish.

[NIGHTSHADE]

I envy you and your solid toeboards. LOL.

I am thankful for that, yup. I have sure seen a lot worse. The pans really weren't that bad, but Nightshade sells the new floor pans so cheap, it really wasn't worth trying to repair the few spots on mine. The worst was the piece above the floor supports. The rest I could have fixed with a few tiny patches.

Drivers side almost welded in. I may have time to finish it tonight. Progress pics will happen if I finish.


Yes it would be nice, but luckily I have 2 parts cars with good toe boards so I can build my "franken floor" to get it right.

[65IIba64]

LOL yah I was lucky enough to find some cheap whole pan's on ebay too. The floor was a complete mess about halfway up the toeboards on both sides. I just compensated with a piece of sheetmetal and connected the edge of the new pans and existing toeboards.

The trunk is another story :o LOL. Five pieces of Sheetmetal later, and I have a Frankentrunk. Thank god for carpet:D .

[67 Red SS]

Good looking job,i am in the middle of the same repair and wondering what type of filler to finish out welded eges:confused:

[Carl Stevenson]

Next question:

Here is where I am at now. Does anyone have a pic of the cut that is behind the factory floor hump on a 4 speed car? This is how mine looks with the auto hump removed, and the repro pan welded in place.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0658-1.jpg

[Carl Stevenson]

Progress report---

The tunnel is now filled in where the automatic shifter was, and the 4 speed hump almost fitted to where I am happy. That was a chore, making part of the tunnel since I couldn't find an unhacked one to put the piece in from.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0661-1.jpg

[Spynova62]

So ive been reading your write up and im wondering is there a place, that is good place to get floor pans at for a good price?

-Wayne

[Carl Stevenson]

Nightshade is your man. Great price, good service, and in the midwest for you, too!

http://stevesnovasite.com/forums/member.php?u=834

[Carl Stevenson]

I finished up the welding tonight. Now to do some seam sealer and a bit of detail work. Then I have to abandon this project for a while to do some "retail" work on a car for a relative of mine.

I am pretty happy with how they turned out. If Nightshade didn't live so close, I'm not sure I would have ever taken the initiative to order pans and get them shipped. Hey, wait a minute! I would have had a bunch of spare time, and a car not half torn apart if it weren't for Nightshade:mad: !!!!!:D

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/pans2.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/pans1.jpg

[Carl Stevenson]

Put some paint on it tonight. I am not making it too pretty, because it's going to be covered up anyway.

Thanks again, Nightshade! This has been a fun experience. I have really enjoyed this project.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadian/DSCF0694.jpg

[NIGHTSHADE]

I have really enjoyed this project.

Thats the best part.

And it turned out superb!!!!!!

[Carl Stevenson]

I was visiting another site member tonight (thanks 62Beaumont for the heater parts;) ) and he made me aware of the fact that none of my pictures were showing up in this thread. They should all be showing up now. I have no idea what happened, because when I went into "edit" to add the photobucket links back in, the link already showed there. However, I had to erase it, and add it again to make the pics work in here:confused:

[FNG]

You have done an awesome job Carl, what does it look like now?

[Carl Stevenson]

The same!!!:D I've been lazy.

I am hoping to get cleaning the engine compartment this weekend, but I have to work Saturday, so that will cut into my time a bit.

Pulled out my block and trans I was test fitting. Pulled out the heater box and A/C. Firewall has all stuff removed, ready to degrease and scuff with Scotchbrite pad, then repaint.

Hey, this thread is a sticky, maybe we better do this in a PM or somewhere else!