Cowl/Kick Panel Repair - 1st Gen.

[Greg_R_63]

Okay, the Learns to Weld (http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42440) thread is pic heavy enough that I figured I would start another to show on my progress on the cowl sides. Here's what I started with:

http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingcowl-011.jpg
I had no idea the cowl sides were this bad until I removed the fenders in late summer of 05. Something to keep in mind if your car has spent extended time outdoors.
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldinginterior-008.jpg

I was able to get donor cowl sides plasma cut from a 63 wagon by our own novajoe. Lucked out on that one, he had cut them previously for someone who never picked them up. Anyway, I took the donors apart at the factory spot welds with a blair rotabroach spot weld cutter on a power drill. I've used these cutters quite a bit now, and I like them a lot. Here's a pic of the passenger side patch cut out and clamped in place. Note that I have some bigger-than-optimal gaps, due to me being new to the whole metal cutting thing:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingcowlside.jpg

After a bunch of practice detailed in the other thread, I finally did some welding on the car. Here are the initial tack and plug welds:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/welding8_20_06-005.jpg

Filled in:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/welding8_20_06-008.jpg

Ground down:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/welding8_20_06-013.jpg

In the next few days, I'll get the outer skin on to complete the side.

[patman]

WOW! Very nice work!

[skrymir]

Damn, sticky this thread. I am going to have to do the same thing someday. That looks awsome. How did you get the outer piece off? Isnt it spot welded on?

[Greg_R_63]

Damn, sticky this thread. I am going to have to do the same thing someday. That looks awsome. How did you get the outer piece off? Isnt it spot welded on?

Yes. If you look, you can see the round 'scars' or marks left by the rotabroach cutters, but they do a clean job.

[the FLYER]

yer doin' a good job Greg ;)

keep it up !!! :D

[Greg_R_63]

Alright, finally got back to this. Over the weekend, I painted the inside of the kick panel vent with Master Series, then sprayed it with the Duplicolor spray can truck bed liner. I gave the inside of the outer skin the same treatment, so the whole inside of the area that rusted will be coated. The other thing I did was, welded in a patch that covers up the entrance to the rocker panel area:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside8_28_06-003.jpg
Smarter people can tell me why, but all the water and debris from the cowl is supposed to wash into the rocker panels, and slowly drip out the 3 or 4 holes that run their length. That will no longer be the case in my car, it will all run out a larger drain hole that I'm drilling into the bottom of the cowl side.

Outer skin, clamped into place. Note the use of the handy dandy woodworking clamp to get things lined up right:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside8_28_06-018.jpg

Plug welds:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside8_28_06-023.jpg

Ground down:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside8_28_06-029.jpg

Inside shot. You can see the fresh truck bed liner that I sprayed into the corners of the outer skin to seal it up:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside8_28_06-034.jpg

And, at great length, we have the first complete thing that I have successfully welded on to my car:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside8_28_06-031.jpg

One down, one to go! :D

[bbqrat]

Great shot looking through the vent opening into the steering column.Was the car from your area when you found it? I am surprised at the amount of rust damage in that area. Nice job on the repair..

[Greg_R_63]

Great shot looking through the vent opening into the steering column.Was the car from your area when you found it? I am surprised at the amount of rust damage in that area. Nice job on the repair..

Good point. I mentioned in the other thread, but not here, that I bought my car in the Seattle area, Kent WA, in fact. It had spent most of its life outside, and that continued for several years as it was my daily driver, and I lived in apartments. The constant rain and pine needles did a good job on it.

[chuckha62]

Guys... I know the commercially available spot weld cutters work great, but if you don't want to spend the extra cash, try a set of Black and Decker Bullet drill bits. They have a small center tip and a fluted edge similar to an end mill, which works perfectly to drill out the spot welds. These drills work GREAT! I just did a similar repair to a cab I'm prepping for my '72 Chevy C10.

Chuck

[Greg_R_63]

Sounds good to me. Everybody finds a way to make it work, eventually. I found that the blair cutters last a LOT longer if you use some kind of grease. They have a stick lube they sell, but I just use a thick, bearing type of grease.

[the FLYER]

looks ta me like ya have things under control pretty well... i think yer doin' a fine job Greg. keep 'er up !!! :D :D :D

[Ox65]

Looks great,I have to do the same thing to my car. Time to get off my but and get to welding.:rolleyes:

[Phil]

After I finished my repair of the kick panel area I drilled a hole at the bottom the od size of of 1/2" pvc. I inserted a short piece of pvc into the hole leaving the upper end of the pvc about a 1/4 " above the inside bottom panel. That way the water could drain out thru this large hole (the factory hole is too small)even if there were leaves, debri, etc. that may get into the kick panel area later.
BTW the bottom end of the pvc protrudes about 1" from the bottom of the panel so water does not splash up into the hole easily...Phil
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/plsmswain/detail?.dir=/4b17&.dnm=dcb8re2.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/plsmswain/detail?.dir=/4b17&.dnm=c1aare2.jpg&.src=ph

[Greg_R_63]

Sounds like a good idea, Phil. I'm still amazed at the design of the drainage system. It seems intended to make the lower cowl and rocker rust out. The only possible logic, besides the phrase planned obsolescence, is that it cuts down on the road noise audible through the vents.

[Phil]

A few years ago I wrote an article about all the drain areas and other areas that tend to rust and leak. One example of areas that tend to rust due to factory desigh/materials is on the 66-67 above the rear quarter window sash area. Along the under side of the channel area were the top slopes down to the corner, the steel rolled leading edge of the track may rust and form a split opening that is hard to detect. When the window is fully closed and driving the car in the rain, water is forced into this small crack and runs on down inside both the sail panel area and on into the lower corner of the rear window. Wha la...and you have rust. Some think only the window seal leaks but a lot of the time this too will be the reason these area rust out...Phil

[Greg_R_63]

I'm going forward with the driver's side cowl as well now. Once the rusted area is removed from the car, the next thing I do is start cutting patches from my donor piece. Last night, I got the outer skin removed. Tonight, I started cutting the inner part away from the rest of it, which in this case, is parts of the floor pan and door jamb. It's a pretty complex area, with a lot of spot welds. Question: I know we've been talking a lot about spot weld cutters, but it's almost impossible to get them exactly on the weld every time. I've been using an old wood chisel to get the 'leftovers'. What do you guys use? Are the seam splitter tools worth the money?

[BRETTZER]

Air chisel was very useful in removal of mine. I had same replacement as you are doing. Since the covers aren't being reused,right? It doesn't matter if it tears a bit if the chisel isn't in there just right. I also used my air 3" cut off tool. you just keep grinding in the area and you will see the whole outline of the spot weld when it gets to the thin point before it pulls away. Some of the spot welds spread out farther than the roundness of the cutter.

Brett

[Phil]

Ditto...I use the cut off wheel to grind off spot wells...works great...Phil

[Greg_R_63]

Air chisel was very useful in removal of mine. I had same replacement as you are doing. Since the covers aren't being reused,right? It doesn't matter if it tears a bit if the chisel isn't in there just right. I also used my air 3" cut off tool. you just keep grinding in the area and you will see the whole outline of the spot weld when it gets to the thin point before it pulls away. Some of the spot welds spread out farther than the roundness of the cutter.

Brett

No, it's just the opposite. In this case, I'm removing the patch, which has many spot welds close together, but it's metal I want to keep and use, so the goal is to keep the destruction to a minimum. The grinder that I have (electric) would not fit very well in this small area, not to mention that the large, crescent moon shaped contact patch is just not good for precision work. The seam splitting knives are fairly cheap, so I'll just try it and see how it works.

[Greg_R_63]

More progress tonight, I did get the rough patches cut away from the donor pieces. They are none too pretty, with surface rust and dirt, and bent out of shape to facilitate the removal process. I went to get a picture of them, and of course the camera battery was dead. Hopefully, I will have time to fine tune my cuts tomorrow, and get some shots of the process that I didn't include above.

[Greg_R_63]

Breaking hearts and breaking servers, this thread just keeps on rollin'.

Here is the donor cowl:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside8_28_06-007.jpg

Here are the rough patches cut out:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_03_06-001.jpg

The inside piece, cleaned and straightened a bit:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_03_06-003.jpg

If you screw up like I did, and have a huge (1/8") gap, you can fill it in using brass or copper to back the gap, so that you can stitch across it with weld:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_03_06-004.jpg

Welds filled in:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_03_06-011.jpg

Inner patch, welded in:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_03_06-010.jpg

[Mike Hall]

I need the very same parts you have there for the drivers side of my 66 nova. Anyone got a donor car they can cut these parts from for me?

Thanks
Mike

[Greg_R_63]

I need the very same parts you have there for the drivers side of my 66 nova. Anyone got a donor car they can cut these parts from for me?

Thanks
Mike

Mike, you came to the right board to look for parts. Post your request in the Parts Wanted forum, and use the forum tools to subscribe to the Parts for Sale forum for your year, to keep an eye out for 66s that are being parted out. I'm not sure who the specific guys are who might have 2nd gens that they would cut apart, but they're around. I also suggest you call Joe Grom at Chevy 2 Only, and Wayne at National Nostalgic Nova.

[Mike Hall]

I will try contacting those guys and see what they have. I had already posted a want add in the parts wanted forum. I may be wrong but the first and second gens have the same cowl, firewall right? It seems that I remember hearing that the chassis are for the most part the same other than outer sheetmetal.

Mike

[Greg_R_63]

I will try contacting those guys and see what they have. I had already posted a want add in the parts wanted forum. I may be wrong but the first and second gens have the same cowl, firewall right? It seems that I remember hearing that the chassis are for the most part the same other than outer sheetmetal.

Mike


I can't say for sure on that one. Maybe someone who knows will tell us.

[Greg_R_63]

Tonight, I can cross off one of the major projects on my list. The cowl sides are done.

Welds ground down:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_08_06-005.jpg

Painted with anti-rust paint:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_08_06-008.jpg


Just a reminder, here's what I started with on the driver's side, after vacuming out about 3 pounds of debris:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/interior-010.jpg

Outer skin cut away, surface rust ground down, better pics of the damage:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/March7_2006-107.jpg
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/March7_2006-097.jpg

And, here's where I ended up tonight:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/cowlside9_08_06-011.jpg

It feels really good to have this done. Learning to weld on areas that will never be visible is the way to go, if you can manage it. :rolleyes: :D

My next over-illustrated thread will be: Floor Pan Repair - 1st Gen. :rolleyes:

[patman]

Excellent writeup! Thanks for posting that!!!

[novajoe]

Greg , Glad to see that wagon I cut up went to great use!! , did I leave you enough when I plasma cut that whole section?? Joe:)

[Greg_R_63]

patman: Thanks! Good to know it's appreciated.

Joe: You bet! Couldnt've done it without ya. A common theme in my repair threads is all the help, advice, and parts I've gotten from the forum. Posting these blow-by-blows is one way of paying back.

[NIGHTSHADE]

Yes this is appreciated. Thats why it's stuck now.

[Greg_R_63]

Cool! Thanks for the stickies, Jonesy. I also wanted to mention, that just because it's stuck, don't mean it's graven in stone. Anyone should feel free to comment or ask questions (before I forget what I did :rolleyes: ).

[62SportCoupe]

Great thread!!!

[Dream1967]

Hey looks good what you done on your panels. I am having the same problem with my 67 Nova. Have anyone seen any of these panels Sold new yet. Like has Goodmark or any one else have them for restorations. Thanks

[Greg_R_63]

Hey looks good what you done on your panels. I am having the same problem with my 67 Nova. Have anyone seen any of these panels Sold new yet. Like has Goodmark or any one else have them for restorations. Thanks

Nope, and highly unlikely they will. After taking both sides apart, I can see how it would be possible to fab the pieces I would've needed, although it would not look factory, who would ever see? Otherwise, you have to cut if from a donor. Like I said, I got lucky. Most likely route is to find someone on the forum who has a first or second gen that they are cutting up.

[jujutek]

Just a reminder, here's what I started with on the driver's side, after vacuming out about 3 pounds of debris:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/interior-010.jpg

Hi Greg. Thanks for this great write up and the pics!

Is the outer skin you cut out factory welded or is there a way to remove it so that I can clear all the debri lodged in between. I have water leak coming through this area and I can see all the junk thats in there through the Kick-Panel vent.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Neil

[Greg_R_63]

Hi Greg. Thanks for this great write up and the pics!

Is the outer skin you cut out factory welded or is there a way to remove it so that I can clear all the debri lodged in between. I have water leak coming through this area and I can see all the junk thats in there through the Kick-Panel vent.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Neil

It's factory spot welded all the way around the perimeter, but if all you need to do is clear the debris, why not take out the kick panel vent, and scoop it out?

[jujutek]

It's factory spot welded all the way around the perimeter, but if all you need to do is clear the debris, why not take out the kick panel vent, and scoop it out?

I can't belive the amount of debris I had lodge in there! I filled a huge trash bag with leaves, pine needles, moss and a few old school soldier toys (the green kind!)

Will drill out the holes under the Kick-Panel are to give the water a clear exit..

thanks for all the help!