Street Tunnel rams~ Carb and EFI (merged)

[69NovaSS]

As I guess most of you know I like to dream about different combos. The idea of a tunnel ram on my car is an idea that goes through my head every so often. I think they look cool and have liked them ever since I was in about grade 9 and there was a kid in grade 12 that had a 1st gen Nova with a tunnel ram on it...it was WAY freaking cool. Anyway here are a few articles on Street tunnel ram selection and tuning a tunnel ram to work at the track with an auto trans car.

enjoy:)


BTW some of the old ads are cool....check out the one from Motion


http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage1.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage2.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage3.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage4.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage5.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage6.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage7.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage8.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage9.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage10.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage1b.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage2b.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage3b.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage4b.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage1a.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage2a.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage3a.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage4a.jpg

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g180/1969NovaSS/tunnelRams/SMpage5a.jpg

[the FLYER]

Geeeeze Duane !!! and i thought MY collection was old !!! i bet ya have lots more stored away ;)

mine go back into the '70's :D

[69NovaSS]

Geeeeze Duane !!! and i thought MY collection was old !!! i bet ya have lots more stored away ;)

mine go back into the '70's :D

ya I have a bunch older then this...If only I had all the ones I've tossed over the years ...I guess I'd have a lot more crap...as my wife likes to refer to it:rolleyes: :D ;) :)

[1963DUCE100]

Paul,
I've done a search on using a tunnel ram on the street, I have found alot of info but most of witch is conterdictory(sp?) So I thought I'd ask the best engine guy in the whole world for the truth. Can I put a tunnel ram (edelbrock street tunne lram) on a 350 or a 383 make 425-450 hp and still beable to drive it to and from the track and cruze it. With out pulling my hair out to tune it every time I start it???
Thanks
Jon

[Paul Wright]

It's been certainly done before so I'd have to say you can, but I think it's not going to get good economy or have excellent driveabilty. The Edelbrock says for engines in the 3,500-7500 operating range "where low end torque is not important".
The vacuum signal and atomization isn't going to be conducive for low rpm which is basically what you are doing driving around.

You probably don't want to build a race engine...you just want it to look like a race engine. How about an EFI tunnel ram? Use the carbs as throttle bodies and hide fuel injectors at the base. I've seen that done and it works pretty good.

If that's too sophisticates then there's already a thread in this forum with some old articles about tunnel rams on the street.

[shaggy]

Why not just get the Holley Stealth Ram? Its Weiands way of converting their popular tunnel ram to EFI. The tunnel ram it evolved from was a very popular intake the was routinely converted to EFI. You can just buy the intake and get the rest of the parts from your local junkyard or ebay for a GM 85-92 TPI system including the computer, throttle body, harness, and all necessary sensors. You will also need a small cap computer controlled distributor with remote HEI and probably have to have a custom chip made for it. You would need some good injectors. The Ford SVO injectors work well and are very affordable. Depending on the power your looking for will decide on what injectors.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D7540&N=700+115&autoview=sku

You will also need the fuel rail kit. I would suggest the adjustable version.


Adjustable fuel regulator:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D534%2D186&N=700+115&autoview=sku

non adjustable fuel rail:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D534%2D185&N=700+115&autoview=sku

[Paul Wright]

Actually, that's not a bad idea! It looks like the Holley base is the same as the carburated tunnel ram base but with EFI bosses. I'll bet you could adapt or even bolt on the old carb upper manifold. Use a pair of Ebay 450's as throttle bodies.
Get the TPI EFI set up/wiring harness from Howell and you're good to go.
I wouldn't even try to hide the fact it's EFI. Everybody will think it real cool. Old skool looks with modern driveability.

[1963DUCE100]

HHHMMMMM now the gears are REALLLY turning I really like the idea. Where would I find the 2X4 upper???? How'd you go about converting the carbs to throttlebodies??? This may be just they way to make it true "injected" "gasser" Thank Paul and Shaggy

[1963DUCE100]

I sent a email to holly reguarding this swap. IF I cant use a duel four upper how tought would it be to add bungs to a stock tunnel ram lower??? If I was to use TPI harness and computer I'd need the speed dendity set up and not the mass air flow system correct??? There seems to be alot of parts available and this could make a easy swap. Lets hope holly come back with a yes they will fit.

[69NovaSS]

The Wieand tunnel ram has an rpm range of 2500-7900 or there abouts....Summit now sells a summit branded version of it that they quote as having an rpm range of 2800-8000 rpm either way it has a wider rpm range than the edelbrock tunnel ram...If I were building one for the street I would be using the one from Wieand as it makes more sence to me...;) :)

Also if you keep your gearing at least 3.90's(or numericly higher), use fairly small carbs (to help keep the intake volocity up) use a cam with fairly short overlap it will go a long ways towards helping your low speed drivability. As Paul mentioned there is a thread on street tunnel ram basics that you might want to read if you havent it has a check list, sorta a too do kinda list, for street tunnels rams...it might be uefull to you.

the above mentioned thread;
http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42991

[Shane65]

There are a couple ways to add bungs. Weld in or use epoxy but you have to be careful of your epoxy choice because of heat and vibration. I go a different route. I drill and ream a precision hole in the intake. Then machine a precision bung with .001" interference fit. Heat the manifold and freeze(liquid nitrogen) the bung. Drop them in the hole and when the temperature has normalized it's done. I then dress off any excess material of the bung that in in the runner so that it doesn't impede air flow.

[jacobgiles]

a good friend of mine does EFI conversions on intakes. check out his site, his prices are resonable too....

http://www.hotrodsolutions.net/IntakesEFI.html

[Paul Wright]

The link to hot rod solutions shows what can be done (basuically anything you can think of).

Welding in injector bungs is not that hard... if you can tig weld. This guys price to modify an intake is very reasonable and he includes the fuel rails. You just supply the injectors.

Converting carbs to throttle bodies is relatively easy. I think you only need to adapt a TPS to the linkage. The carb is just there to throttle the air. I wouldn't even bother with making dummy fuel lines.
Also you can run bigger carbs because they only flow air, not fuel so you don't have to worry about the vacuum signal... I'd use two 660 mechanicals though I'm not sure if the 1:1 linkage would work or not. I'm thinking it would work fine since fuel metering is done by the computer.

I think you ought to do this.

[69NovaSS]

Man that is some cool work....:cool: ....the intake he made for the C4 Vette is freaking awesome...His price to convert an intake is very reasonable...makes a person think that an EFI tunnel ram with a couple of big carbs on it for throttle bodies sure would be the cats azz:cool: :cool:

Sorry for the dumb question but what else would be needed to make that work? Computer, different fuel pump, return lines, sensors, etc, etc? What would it take to make something like this work in one of our nova's:confused: :)

[Paul Wright]

This makes even more sense with your E85 plan. Dial in the fuel with a lap top and have good starting manners.
I think a fuel cell in the trunk with an EFI fuel pump (alchohol compatible of course) 1/2" fuel lines, the modified tunnel ram, a set of 660 mech. carbs with a tps sensor, (Maybe a progressive linkage?) and a Tuned port fuel injection system off a Camaro. Howell EFI (http://www.howellefi.com/shop/customer/home.php) has a lot of details/parts/info for using these. I'm sure there are others as well. There's also the Mega squirt (http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html) set up. I built one and it actually works(!) but I have yet to install it on a car.

An EFI dual quad tunnel ram is Back To The Future!

[1963DUCE100]

I like hot rod solutions work. This coversion looks to be a dooable thing. With the accesibility of GM TPI parts, after a plumed intake this should be a fairly easy "plug and play" mod. I'm gunna haveto do it. I reas up on mega squit a couple years ago and looks like it may work but I'm no compurer geek so it may not be the way to go for me. WE have aguy in Vancouver that is a EFI tuning wizzard. He got a guuy at work corvette with a 396 stroker SB LT4 up to 550hp and 24mpg. I may have to get him to do the programming for me. I'll give him a call and see.

[patman]

There's also the Mega squirt (http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html) set up. I built one and it actually works(!) but I have yet to install it on a car.


That's high on my "stuff I'd like to do someday" list...just after the new engine. I've been following that project for years. The possibilities are amazing!

[1963DUCE100]

I have been doing some research a found out about Enderle fuel injection
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Tunnel%20Ram%20Injectors.htm They offer tunnel ram lower driled for port injection, granted this is mech. f.i. but couldn't the carb upper be added and EFI injectors added. the price of the lowe intake is $285 not bad if you could ad the correct injectors.
here are some pics of thier injected intakes
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Product-Scans/E-30045.jpg
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Product-Scans/E-4302.jpg
http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Product-Scans/E-7070.jpg

[1963DUCE100]

Got an email feom Holly no dice on using the Stealth ram lower and a tunnel ram upper:mad: guess it's back to the drawing board.

[shaggy]

Their is part that is identical to the stealth ram lower that your looking for to convert to fuel injection but weiand stopped making it a while ago. It was before the Stealth Ram even came out. Sometimes you get lucky and see them on ebay. It had the fuel rail bosses but wasnt machined for the injectors although the bosses were there. I found a picture of it. Funny how its identical as the stealth ram but is advertised as 2 x 4 bbl

CHEV SB PORT INJ-5984 EFI Intake Manifold Power Band To 7000 RPM; 2 x 4 bbl
Its been discontinued although seems like some stores still have them in stock.

http://www.joeblowracing.com/images/graphics/holley/f5954.jpg

Maybe they have it. $299.99
http://www.performancecenter.com/autoparts/weiand/hol5954.html

Its basically this.

http://vichubbard.com/shop/files/images/details/hol/3984.jpg

or this

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/9251984.jpg

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=400053+317355&autoview=sku
$154.69
Manifold, Hi-Ram, Tunnel Ram Top

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/wnd-1912_w.jpg

[69NovaSS]

Got an email feom Holly no dice on using the Stealth ram lower and a tunnel ram upper:mad: guess it's back to the drawing board.

why not buy a used tunnel ram and have the guy in that one link convert it to fuel injection for ya....his price is less then 500 bucks and that includes the conversion, fuel rails, and a few other things too...seems like I deal to me...heck he could even fab up or convert a TPI type top, instead of using carbs as throttle bodies, as his custom work hourly price is not that bad either...just a thought


EDIT: Link

http://www.hotrodsolutions.net/IntakesEFI.html

[1963DUCE100]

My thought today was to buy and use the single four tunnel ram and use the throttle body and computer off the Holly Comander 950 multiport kit, may not be duels but should be good just the same.
http://vichubbard.com/shop/files/images/details/hol/3984.jpg
this kit along with the tunnel ram lower should make a fine kit at 1475 not a bad deal.http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/hly-534-183_w.jpg

[Tom Griffin]

How about this?

[Shane65]

Click on the two bottom pics:

http://www.momarefi.com/parts.html


Want wild looks and under the hood? Click on the top left pic:

http://www.momarefi.com/products.html


Of course if you have a LS1 then there's one for it:

http://www.harrop.com.au/root_folder/misc_images/hurricane-2.html


Not many know about this one. I've never seen it before. Awesome:

http://www.azspeed-marine.com/sudrtopinsy.html


Bored yet?

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/azspeed_1907_13016579

[shaggy]

Im sure you have seen this. They do some really nice stuff.

http://www.hotrodlane.cc/onlinecatalog/onlinecatalog2006/newonlinecatalog2006.html/ (http://www.hotrodlane.cc/onlinecatalog/onlinecatalog2006/newonlinecatalog2006.html)

http://www.hotrodlane.cc/onlinecatalog/onlinecatalog2006/page059.jpg