E85/Alcohol conversion steps (combined thread)

[66novaHT]

Can E-85 be ran in a non emissions carborated engine by just going to larger jets? We use this stuff where I work in our newer vehicles and it seems to work really good. I know it is 105 octane rating and was wondering how it would perform performance wise?

Jeremy

[Nova63]

Hi there,
Well I have done some research regarding using ethanol in street driven V8 cars. First I can tell that there is not easy finding good info on this subject, but I think Ive found a few things worth mentioning.

I live in Sweden, and the ethanol thing seems to growing stronger here. We have many pumps where you can buy a fuel called "E85" which contains around 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent unleaded gas. I know many people whose tried it in older cars with different results. First, if using pure E85 the engine will need more fuel, count on that it will eat about 25-35 percent more than if running with gasoline. You will have to change for bigger jets (if carburated) or tune your injection. Ive heard complaints about corrosion in fuel thanks and on fuel lines. If you have a bad hose it will cause a leak very fast. Make sure you dont have any rubber or plastic seats in the carb coz the alcohol will act like a solvent and destroy such things.

My friend did try running his hot rodded Olds 455 with Eddy alu heads 280 magnum cam and everything. He told me that the car ran pretty good, but did not get enough fuel, he never changed jets before switched back to regular fuel though.

The thing is that you can run more static CR and more advanced timing with alcohol without getting detonations. Ive also read some tests done with todays european cars where they get as much as 20-30 hp more out of the engines by only switching to alcohol from gasoline. Of course the mapped the injections so the engine get the right fuel ratio, but thats all they did.

Another negative side effect is that an alcohol feeded engine will become hard to start if the outdoor temperature is going down. Anyway, I guess this wont be an issue if ya live in hot regions of the country.

If you think its worth a try, start by mixing smaller amounts of ethanol with the gas, lets say for example first 10% drive a testrun, then try 20-30% Be careful then, and note if your engine runs lean!!!

By the way, all our swedish fuel contains around 5% ethanol, so small amounts of it wouldnt hurt a thing! And its a good cleaner on carbon deposits =)

I hope this will be to any help.

Matt

[Jason628]

Greetings,

Living in Illinois, all the gas stations have gas with at least 10% Ethanol in it. I've never ran the E-85 in anything, but the gas with the 10% Ethanol doesn't do any damage whatsoever.

Jason

[Jason628]

Greetings,

Living in Illinois, all the gas stations have gas with at least 10% Ethanol in it. I've never ran the E-85 in anything, but the gas with the 10% Ethanol doesn't do any damage whatsoever.

Jason

[rdj59]

I have been thinking of using E-85 as my main fuel for the 427 in my II. I realize that i would need to be carefull selecting my tank and lines as the gas is slightly corrosive. I like the fact that it is like 105 octane and is cheaper than 87 but has a low availabilty. If you had acess to this gas, how would you build a 427 to optimize it? I was looking at using a set of 11.5:1 pistons with a set of Brodix BB2 plus heads with 312 cc intake port, then maybe something like a ZL-1 cam or Cranes L-88 cam. Or something like that.
How would you build it for the gas? Any suggestions?
Thanks
Jeramie:)

[Fatcat]

I think the possibilities for this stuff could be real interesting. I have heard of some motors under construction with blowers and they are not there for looks. These guys plan on making big power, well in excess of 1000 hp. Time will tell.

[65 Post]

I run methanol in my race car and had the opportunity to try ethanol. I'm friends with Mark Thomas the alky funny guy and he gave me a drum to try. That was about 6 years ago and I still have half the drum. I just about got the car to run just as fast with the ethanol, but I had to lean the engine out to do it. When pouring it into the jugs, it looked like syrup compared to methanol. I know that sounds funny, but that's what it looked like to me. If you want to run it, you really don't have to do anything different to the engine. It does like compression, so you could run 12-1 if you's like with no problems. I guess for the street it would be different. You'd also have to get an alky carb in order to run it. When my Nova is finished and I get my 327 complete, it will have 12.5-1 and an alky carb for the street/strip. I'll run alky though. Dave

[WhitecatD]

Could you run E-85 through a carbureted engine? What would you have to do to run it in something like, for example, a 350 from the 70s?

[Pro-touring72]

you need ethanol safe seals, gaskets abd hoses. Also you need to jet the heck out of it.

[Paul Wright]

The biggest problem I see would be if you modified it to run on E-85, unlike FI cars with dual calibrations it couldn't run gasoline without rejetting.
What would you do if you couldn't find E85 on a trip?
E85 won't get better mileage. I haven't seen if it might cost less.

You know that corn based fuels are not going to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil. The reason is the Cornfields are no longer small farms combined with animals that provide free organic fertilizer. They use commercial, chemical fertilizer that uses up alot of energy to manufacture. Corn sells for less than it costs to grow. We pay for that in subsidies with our taxes.
We can't possibly grow enough corn to replace oil. The energy density per acre needed vs shrinking farm land available doesn't compute. It's a short term solution that will benefit corn growers by boosting corn prices.

E85 is a diversion from the real problem. As long as we still have millions of 1 person commuters in 12 mpg SUV's and pickups we'll have a problem.

[big dog ss]

The biggest problem I see would be if you modified it to run on E-85, unlike FI cars with dual calibrations it couldn't run gasoline without rejetting.
What would you do if you couldn't find E85 on a trip?
E85 won't get better mileage. I haven't seen if it might cost less.

You know that corn based fuels are not going to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil. The reason is the Cornfields are no longer small farms combined with animals that provide free organic fertilizer. They use commercial, chemical fertilizer that uses up alot of energy to manufacture. Corn sells for less than it costs to grow. We pay for that in subsidies with our taxes.
We can't possibly grow enough corn to replace oil. The energy density per acre needed vs shrinking farm land available doesn't compute. It's a short term solution that will benefit corn growers by boosting corn prices.

E85 is a diversion from the real problem. As long as we still have millions of 1 person commuters in 12 mpg SUV's and pickups we'll have a problem.

once again, all E-85 is made up of is 15% gasoline and 85% moonshine. ethenol in its pure form is alsohol and they add some gasoline to it and bam you have E-85. if you set up your engine to run on alcohol it "should" run on E-85 with some tweaking of the system. in making corn fuel it takes little energy, they burn garbage that has been packed into pallet shapes and the btu's it puts out is incredible. right now E-85 is between 50 and 80 cents per gallon lower then gasoline. corn gas wont let us be free from crude oil, but between ethenol and our own crude that the U.S. controls that would make us free from the arabs!!

for your fertilizer coment, farming is a computer controled GPS business now. i can tell down to the square foot what my field is producing. so when it comes time to fertilize you dont do the entire firld you "spot" it on where the yield is lower. also remember, today its noting to avg. 200-225 bushels an acre. some have hit the 250 mark. so as technology moves forward so will producing more corn on the same number of acres. just 10yrs ago if you got 150 bushels per acre you were doing great. so it is VERY possible to beco,e free of forgin oil, IF the government really wanted to.

[1bad66]

Well around here E85 is only 10 cents a gallon cheaper, plus your mpg will be less so what's the point in using it.

[NIGHTSHADE]

Since E85 is alcohol wont the cylinder walls rust from lac of lubrication if the car is not properly set up for it. Along with alot of the alcohol getting by the piston ring and fouling up the oil like it does in the alcohol cars on the strip??

[Nova_Guy]

A friend of mine is a farmer. He had receipts for corn his dad had sold in the 50"s and the receipts for the corn he had just sold (late 80"). The price per bushel was the same, the difference was Jeff was/is getting 100-125 bushels per acre not 40 like his dad did. That is on crappy clay dirt in Southern Illinios.

The way to solve our energy crisis is the use of natural energy, solar, wind, and tides.

[Paul Wright]

I seriously doubt that even with the productivity improvements in agriculture the business is profitable for small farmers. How much is a bushel of corn going for? How much does it cost to produce?

We drive 365 days a year.
Corn only grows in the summer and you only get product once a year. I'm not sure how many bushels of corn it takes to make a gallon of ethanol but I am 100% sure we can't possibly grow enough corn to make billions of gallons of ethanol and satisify our corn sweetener and animal feed needs, much less all the exporting to other nations.

Iowa isn't big enough and there are too many Walmarts and subdivisions being built. Not enough fresh water to sustain a major increase in growing. Already the fertilizer run off into the Mississippi is so bad there are dead zones and no drinking days in the spring. I agree that ethanol will help the farmers (actually big companies like ADM) but I don't think it will help the country in the long run.

The governor in Michigan (Jennifer Granholm) has worked a deal with the Michigan Meijers stores to have E85 pumps so it's going to happen.
We'll see how successful it is. If the gas mileage on your E85 Suburban is less and the fuel isn't much cheaper then it might just fizzle out.

I'm all for alternative energy sources it just has to make sense. It's like thinking everybody can just run their diesel on french fry oil from McDonalds.

[big dog ss]

yep thats correct, corn ONLY grows in iowa!! and there are additives and gasoline in the E-85 so its not exactly the same as running strait alcohol..

[Nova77X]

Personally I think farmers can grow enough, but then the price of gas will come down to run all the ethanol plants out of buisness, and well be relying on arabs again.

[Gloryhound]

The way to solve our energy crisis is the use of natural energy, solar, wind, and tides.

Do you have any idea how much land it takes to produce 1 Mega Watt of power using solar cells or how many Watts a windmill will produce (as long as the wind keeps blowing)? Also the toxic waste produced by the battery banks windmills and solar fields require? Nuclear enegy produces less waste and one nuclear unit produces 800 to 1200 Mega Watts. Then we step into maintenance costs of that one Nuclear power plant compared to the 2000 wind mills it would take to equal the same output. Then we can step into the cost of coal powered plants, they are cheap comparitively speaking. Most get anywhere from 300 to 600 Mega Watts. Coal is a natural resource found abundantly in the US. Actually their is a coal mine north east of Harrisburg, PA that is burning under ground. It burns in the neighborhood of 100,000 metric tons of coal a day. Nobody is willing to put the money into it to put that fire out, but environmentalists still target the coal burning power plants as big polluters of our air! If we stopped producing power with coal with the current technology level today we would have to put in 200 to 300 Nuclear power plants and your electric bill would triple overnight. If we tried this without putting in nuclear units and making up the difference with wind, solar, and tidal power production your electric bill would be 10 times higher. The cost to maintain small machines like these are absurd compared to what they would actually make tied to the grid. If you put one on your house you may be happy for the first 5 years but when your first major inspection came along you would be tying back onto the grid in a heart beat.

[stock z/28]

Hi guys,

Has anyone here ever played around with E-85 fuel, with a carburated engine? Im thinking of using some of this, just to learn about it, but right now I dont have a clue.

I know it will take extensive mods, but Im ok with some putting some time into it. I just need info to start out with.

Thanks
Jeff

[Paul Wright]

I merged all the E-85 posts into one thread. Any tips or discussion on E-85 coinversions go here.

[stock z/28]

Hello,

I didn't know that there was already a thread on this topic here. I guess I should have searched it out.

What I am looking for is what carb modifications are required as well as seals and type of fuel line and pumps.

I have read some on the carbs, and they simply refer to "jetting up". I dont really think simply changing jets will be sufficient to provide a proper fuel curve. I was wondering about the mods required to the power valve restriction- emulsification - air bleeds etc.

I have a bunch of Teflon fuel line, maybe that will work. The fuel pump and the carb are may major concern.

I have a wide band sensor that downloads to my laptop, and I am hoping that I can dial the fuel metering based on that.

I was just looking for a starting point.

Someone should start another thread that would discuss the politics of the energy situation. I have some rather biased views but I want to talk about drilling holes in carbs here, not wind mills in Teddy Kennedy's ocean view.


Maybe just cars here?

Thanks
Jeff

[rdj59]

Hi, To make the car E-85 "friendly" you'd technically need to have fuel lines, pump, an carb gaskets that are alcohol friendly. The ethanol acts as a cleaner agent so run a good fuel filter. With the carb it would make sense to have to mess with the bleeds to get the correct curve for the engine. With the powervalve i'd also think the pvcr's would have to enlarged accordingly. Awsome power has been made with this fuel. Here's the link to a car making over a 1000 hp with it.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/e85dyno.php

Actually in theory you should be able to get the same if not more mpg's with E-85. The problem with the flex fuel vehicles is that they are not optimized for the fuel. E-85 is happy with high compresion as it has an octane rating around 106(i think). Yes E-85 isn't the answer but at least it's a start. Any thing that lessens the amount of non-renewable resources used, is fine by me. As with all things that are new, i think they will find ways to use less energy to create the fuel.

Jeramie

[69NovaSS]

Well I've been thinking that I might just set my car up to run E85. The 105 octane is very attractive with the CR I will be potentially running (roughly 11.5:1 BUT I will know the exact number when parts are measured). And the prices I have heard for it sound really attractive too (right around the price for regular unleaded)

So what exactly do I have to do to convert my fuel system to run this product. I know that all the rubber for the system needs to be removed and replaced with Alcohol resistent products but what would be a good ball park jump to make in jet sizes that I could make to get me close to the right size? Also what else would have to be done to the carb other than jets to make it work with this fuel?

How about fuel pumps what should be done to it? I currently have an electric but will be replacing it. I see that certian electric pumps are listed as safe for alcohol use but do they make a mechanical pump that would work with this fuel or should I just keep using an electric pump? What about fuel lines(would stainless line be a good idea), filters, etc???

Anyway, any input is appreciated, especially from those that have made the change to alcohol

thanks in advance:)

[ovrdrive]

I am uncertain about your jet sizes but I do know that most of the things I have heard is from Pat Goss. He is one of the Tech guys on Motor Week and has a radio show every weekend in the Metro D.C. area. Well, he has mentioned this subject numerous times and you are on the right track with the replacement of the fuel lines. But I don't remember Pat saying to replace any major components because of the new fuel. He did however stressed the fact that you will need to replace your in-line fuel filter due to the alchol based fuel will chemically clean / strip the whole fuel system. And this will clog up any and all fuel filters. It might gum up that electric fuel pump but I am no certified mechanic. ( certified nut case sometimes :eek: )

Hope this helps

Dan

[DriveWFO]

Duane, how much cranking pressure do you anticipate having?

[69NovaSS]

Duane, how much cranking pressure do you anticipate having?

Honestly Dave I dont know...I cant even say for sure what the CR will be until I am farther along the line...the pistons I have will supposedly give me 11.87:1 cr with the heads I have at zero deck with a .038" gasket....But things are not always up to the factory specs so until I measure I'm not sure exactly what I will have...I can guess but thats not worth a darn:)

As far as cranking pressures are concerned I wont know for sure unitl I have it together and do the test. i'm sure there is a way to figure it out /guesstimate mathmaticly but that is beyond me:o

[69NovaSS]

I am uncertain about your jet sizes but I do know that most of the things I have heard is from Pat Goss. He is one of the Tech guys on Motor Week and has a radio show every weekend in the Metro D.C. area. Well, he has mentioned this subject numerous times and you are on the right track with the replacement of the fuel lines. But I don't remember Pat saying to replace any major components because of the new fuel. He did however stressed the fact that you will need to replace your in-line fuel filter due to the alchol based fuel will chemically clean / strip the whole fuel system. And this will clog up any and all fuel filters. It might gum up that electric fuel pump but I am no certified mechanic. ( certified nut case sometimes :eek: )

Hope this helps

Dan

Well I want to intall all new lines anyway no matter the fuel so I was thinking I would get the stainless lines....they're really not a ton more then the steel lines...So I think that will be the way to go...Ya I read some stuff on the filters about them needing changing often due to the alcohol "cleaning" the crap outta the system...of course if the entire fuel system is new there shouldnt be a lot of crap that can be cleaned outta the system..or at least you wouldnt think there would be:)

[GrandmaGold]

As afar as my knowledge goes, you need to run a alcohol type carb (being that Ethenol is just like Alcohol, you need to have 1/3 more fuel than regular gasoline) and fuel pump. I think Aeroquip teflon fuel lines (insted of the rubber type) should be sufficent.

[big dog ss]

there is a write up about this in one of the car mags. chp,superchevy or carcraft cant remember which one.. but its a very interesting article...

[69NovaSS]

As afar as my knowledge goes, you need to run a alcohol type carb (being that Ethenol is just like Alcohol, you need to have 1/3 more fuel than regular gasoline) and fuel pump. I think Aeroquip teflon fuel lines (insted of the rubber type) should be sufficent.

Would a person be able to just rebuild a gas carb with the correct parts/gaskets to withstand the corrosiveness of the alcohol and then increase the size of the jets by roughly 30 percent?:confused:

[==sYc==>]

Well I've been thinking that I might just set my car up to run E85. And the prices I have heard for it sound really attractive too (right around the price for regular unleaded)
Remember, your fuel economy will drop on E85. For example, if you got 30-mpg on gasoline, you will only get about 20-mpg on E85. Make sure you factor that in when you price the stuff. Basically the price of E85 has to be about 2/3rd of the price of gasoline before you start saving money. So unless you can get $2-gal E85, you'll be spending more on fuel.

[FunkyNova66]

:eek: Looks like you need to can that idea, Duane.:rolleyes: :D

[69NovaSS]

Remember, your fuel economy will drop on E85. For example, if you got 30-mpg on gasoline, you will only get about 20-mpg on E85. Make sure you factor that in when you price the stuff. Basically the price of E85 has to be about 2/3rd of the price of gasoline before you start saving money. So unless you can get $2-gal E85, you'll be spending more on fuel.
Well first I would not think of running e85 if my car could run on 87 octane fuel. BUT it will not run on that fuel it will likely need substantially more octane than that so that is when it starts to become economicly feasiable to do this.

From a few sources I have heard the current price of E85 is slighlty less then the price of 87 octane. So I can have 105 octane fuel for slightly less then the cost of 87 octane. If it turns out due to my 11.5+cr (will know the exact cr in the future) using iron heads to boot that I need to run 100 octane to avoid knock then e85 is a huge bargin. You cannot buy 100+ octain fuel for less money then you can get e85. And I would speculate that most 100+ octane fuel is indeed at least a 1/3 more expensive than e85 (though i have not looked into that yet)

Yes I will lose mileage..thats a given.... On this car however thats no biggy. So instead of getting 9mpg...like it did in the past it will not get 6mpg. Again no biggy. The car will get crappy MPG no mater what I run for fuel it always did in the past and it always will as long as I own it...:)

[69NovaSS]

:eek: Looks like you need to can that idea, Duane.:rolleyes: :D

ummm...no...his assumption is based on, or at least I assume it is, my replacing 87 octane fuel with e85...well that is NOT the plan....my plan is to replace 100+ octane gas with 105 octane e85. when you look at it that way there is indeed a cost savings to be had. E85 is currently slightly less then 87 octane fuel...100+ octane gas is substantually more then that in cost.. ;) :)

I dunno maybe I'm out to lunch on this:confused: :)

[bigkaboose]

There is an article in the Popular Hot Rodding magazine for July. The article states that E85 can be as much as 113 octane. With this we can run 13.1 compression and it will cost cheaper than regular. The article does state if you got 10 mpg you will now get 9 but again the savings of paying $$ for super and getting gas thats higher octane that is cheaper than regular out weighs it. Plus who cares its cleaner:D

[69NovaSS]

There is an article in the Popular Hot Rodding magazine for July. The article states that E85 can be as much as 113 octane. With this we can run 13.1 compression and it will cost cheaper than regular. The article does state if you got 10 mpg you will now get 9 but again the savings of paying $$ for super and getting gas thats higher octane that is cheaper than regular out weighs it. Plus who cares its cleaner:D

My point exactly:) If your running high compression and e85 is avalable in your area I think its a win win situation for a hot rodder. You can run your high compression motors at a cost slighly less then that of regular fuel.....Like I said its win win for sure;) :cool: :)

for once you can have your cake and eat it too:D

[chevy65supernova]

Ok so someone help me out with this, my car is about to go on the road, but engine has 11.1 -1 comp so i would have to run 110 or sunoco 93 at least. Are you saying that E85 is 105 octane only? or that 105 octane E85 is cheaper than comparable of normal fuel? also anyone in michigan know where to purchase?

thanks

[69NovaSS]

Ok so someone help me out with this, my car is about to go on the road, but engine has 11.1 -1 comp so i would have to run 110 or sunoco 93 at least. Are you saying that E85 is 105 octane only? or that 105 octane E85 is cheaper than comparable of normal fuel? also anyone in michigan know where to purchase?

thanks

Well sorta saying both but not quite...

I went to the E85 website(link below) and they say it is 105 octane. Another member here posted that in a magazine article they say it CAN be as high as 113 octane. Either way it is a high octane fuel. Its cost right now is a little less then 87 octane regular gas. However without making changes to your car it will not run well on it. BUT once the changes are made e85 could be used. To find a dealer near by just go to the link below...

http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

[DriveWFO]

Well sorta saying both but not quite...

I went to the E85 website(link below) and they say it is 105 octane. Another member here posted that in a magazine article they say it CAN be as high as 113 octane. Either way it is a high octane fuel. Its cost right now is a little less then 87 octane regular gas. However without making changes to your car it will not run well on it. BUT once the changes are made e85 could be used. To find a dealer near by just go to the link below...

http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

It's selling here at Sheetz for $2.65/gal.

[69NovaSS]

It's selling here at Sheetz for $2.65/gal.
how does that compare to your regular gas(87 stuff)? I know here in GA right now that is lower then 87 is costing to buy:)

[chevy65supernova]

this sounds awesome to me as I can see no change in sight in prices so if it saves me some money for stilll getting high octane I am all for it...althoughthe closet station is about 10 mins away, but i assume there will be closer ones soon, i do live in Michiigan so theres gotta be. So waht I am wondering is, if i set it up for E85, do I always have to use E85 of can i say fill up nomal 110 on monday then E85 when im down that way on the weekend?? Will this cause any damage?

[69NovaSS]

thats is the part I'm trying to learn myself and the purpose of the thread. My understanding is that you will need to increase your jet size by 20-30% and remove all rubber from the fuel system and replace it with alcohol resistent parts. The increase in jet size will make running gas a bit of a problem cause you would be running super rich if you say set the car up for e85 and then one day put 110 in it...I suspect, depending on how much e85 was in the tank when you put the 110 in you would be running as I said really rich...but other then that I dont "think" there would be a problem....possibly some of the others on here might give an opinion on that too...

Now I'm not as close to the nearest station as you are but they are trying to open up as many stations as they can in the next few years so I am hoping that by the time the car is running again one will be closer...BUT even if its not...I might just buy the stuff in large quanities...

the stuff seems win/win to me:cool: :)

[69NovaSS]

I guess a person could add a quick change jet kit to the carb so the jets can be changed without removing the bowl. Then if you were going to run gas you could quickly drop down the jet size and go for it....then swap back to the larger jets when you run e85....or there is the holley "adjust-a-jet" kit (ranging from jet size #63-#140) that allows you to adjust the jet size while the motor is running....quite a bit more money then the quick change jet kit but it might be an option too.....just a thought...not sure if that would totaly work or not

[chevy65supernova]

Ok so, to get this straight, theses are the things need for E85 conversion:

-New lines
-fuel filter
-fuel pump
-jets...

is that all or did I miss something??

-Billy

[69NovaSS]

Ok so, to get this straight, theses are the things need for E85 conversion:

-New lines
-fuel filter
-fuel pump
-jets...

is that all or did I miss something??

-Billy


I dont want to steer you wrong as i'm just learning this stuff myself BUT I "think" that is all that is required BUT I would do some more research if I were you...here is a link to a guy that switched to e85 with a non flex fuel 2001 explorer...possibly it might shed some light for ya. BTW as far as I know the carb would have to be completly rebuilt too so that any parts/gaskets in the carb are e85/alcohol friendly....

http://e85vehicles.com/converting-e85.htm

[chevy65supernova]

Ok thanks for the info. If anyone else wants to chime in with info itll be great. I want to do this so i will keep everyone informed. Maybe keep this a sticky so we can all add new info as time goes on as i assume that this may be a big subject in the near future with the way things are today!

[chevy65supernova]

heres a link to the E85 forum...http://e85vehicles.com/e85/

[69NovaSS]

heres a link to the E85 forum...http://e85vehicles.com/e85/

thanks for the link, I've went over and signed up:)

[chevy65supernova]

heres a quick article I found: it is possible!:

"I’ve heard that it can’t be done for the old cars, but I myself have proven that theory wrong, back in the 1980’s I ran alcohol in my 1969 Z/28 Camaro, and in a 1972 GMC truck, yes I did have to make some mods to run it, such as the jetting on the carburetor had to be leaned out a bit, any rubber parts need to be replaced with urethane, or something that the alcohol won’t eat, at that time I had to have the parts built for the carburetor, and you need to run aircraft quality fuel lines, or change all your fuel lines to steel ones.

Nothing is impossible, that is the point that I’m trying to make here, it’s not a simple one afternoon ordeal to do this job, it will take some planning, call up Jegs, and tell them that you’d like to covert your car to E85, I’ll bet they can help you with the parts that you need, they have a very knowledgeable tech staff working for them, and their always glad to answer questions about their products.

E85 is a great idea, and it’s a good way to keep driving your old car, and still not worry about the environment, it will bring down your cars emissions greatly, it’s an all around cleaner burning better running fuel for any car, it just needs to be made more available to the public, and I think that will be coming soon, with the way that gas prices are going, you can buy a carburetor these days that’s set up for alcohol, it makes the whole job a lot easier."

[DriveWFO]

how does that compare to your regular gas(87 stuff)? I know here in GA right now that is lower then 87 is costing to buy:)

87 is $2.84/gal.

[69NovaSS]

87 is $2.84/gal.


I havent looked in a few days but that would be pretty much ball park for what were paying here for 87 too....man that e85 really is a bargin..:)

[mark slocumb]

Im in GA also, downtown in fact which was the only place even near here that even sells E-85 according to the map from the E-85 website. it is $3.00 for 87 octane intown so depending on how much the ethonal is it will be a bargain. Dont know anything about the flex cars that automakers are using maybe they could help clear up what the do to run both(probably expensive).

A great idea for u to run the e-85 if your building such a HIGH CR machine. For buying it in quanities, does it have to be a special container? I have been kicking around the idea of finding a wrecked flex fuel tahoe to use for a kit car motor and tranny to experiment with horsepower gains on flex fuel vehicles. I will be keeping an eye on this thread for sure ..

[69NovaSS]

Im in GA also, downtown in fact which was the only place even near here that even sells E-85 according to the map from the E-85 website. it is $3.00 for 87 octane intown so depending on how much the ethonal is it will be a bargain. Dont know anything about the flex cars that automakers are using maybe they could help clear up what the do to run both(probably expensive).


I'm not sure about the container...I know stuff like racing fuel can be bought by the drum so possibly that is an option for this fuel too...I dunno. (though I am a little concerned about storing an alcohol based fuel for very long due to water absorption issues)

As far as the new flex fuel vehicles go with fuel injections and computer controls they can easily switch between the different fuels no problem and the computer takes care of the air fuel mixture so its all automatic. I dont believe there is anyway for it to be automatic with a carburated car when you swith from gas to e85 and back again.




A great idea for u to run the e-85 if your building such a HIGH CR machine. For buying it in quanities, does it have to be a special container? I have been kicking around the idea of finding a wrecked flex fuel tahoe to use for a kit car motor and tranny to experiment with horsepower gains on flex fuel vehicles. I will be keeping an eye on this thread for sure ..


Well to me compression is free HP. For every point in CR you go up you can gain roughly 25-30HP. That is free power. If I can find a fuel that will run it for really no more money then 87 regular then it really is a win/win for me.;) :)

At least that is my thought on this

[chevy65supernova]

I wonder, b/c i have a 16 gallon plastic fuel cell...would the E 85 cause any problems with that?

[69NovaSS]

I wonder, b/c i have a 16 gallon plastic fuel cell...would the E 85 cause any problems with that?

I would contact your fuel cell maker and ask:)

[NovatoriusRex]

Well to me compression is free HP. For every point in CR you go up you can gain roughly 25-30HP. That is free power. If I can find a fuel that will run it for really no more money then 87 regular then it really is a win/win for me.;) :)

At least that is my thought on this

Have you considered that this new fuel may not have the same power potential as traditional fuels?? It's possible that your HP to $$$ ratio may not be any different, and possibly less, with the new fuel.

If you're just looking for raw $$$ savings, it may be a worthwhile pursuit though. Just a thought. :)

[69NovaSS]

Have you considered that this new fuel may not have the same power potential as traditional fuels?? It's possible that your HP to $$$ ratio may not be any different, and possibly less, with the new fuel.

If you're just looking for raw $$$ savings, it may be a worthwhile pursuit though. Just a thought. :)


not a chance...alcohol is alcohol....talk to the alcohol funny cars\sprint cars\F1 cars\Monster trucks\etc and see if they make more power on alcohol or gas:rolleyes: :D

but seriously I will agree that alcohol does contain lower BTU's then the same amount of gas would contain but my understanding is that is more then made up for by the change in A/F ratio you must do to change over to this fuel. PLUS there is the high octane levels it contains too. There are many racing vehicles running alky. If it was a poor fuel I would suspect they would have went to something else by now;) BUT alky in itself wont make more power for you....just like running race gas in a car designed for regular gas wont cause the car to make more HP either. You have to build the motor to take advantage of the properties that alky has which allow you to make more power. HIGH Octane;) Build the motor to need the octane (due to compression) and your going to make more power....Also the cooling effects of the alky will help deter detination too.....squeeze it hard and the power will be there.....Ya Baby:cool:

I personally dont see a down side other then it not being widely avalable YET......BUT for most of us thats not a big deal cause very few of us will ever do a huge trip away from home with our Novas anyway;)

BUT as always this is just my opinion...take it FWIW:)

Also one last thought to me it really just comes down to this...why pay 4.00, 5.00, 6.00, or??? per gallon for the various race fuels when I can buy e85 for under 3 bucks a gallon and it has more then enough octane for my needs...its just shear economics..the less I pay for fuel...the more I can drive the car...and to me driving the car is always way better then just looking at it in the garage;):)

[chevy65supernova]

I feel the same as you 65NovaSS..especially for being being college kid im already broke so if i can save a buck maybe itll let me drive it more often...but like u said the only downfall I see the availabiliity, but I assume there will only be more out there soon, plus the more of us using it the more demand for the stations. Also lets say we go on a long trip, why not fill up a five fallon container and put it in your trunk? Although thats prolly made out of same plastic as the fuel cell so I will have to check.

[Joe]

Duane,I was thinking ahead for you. Since you are considering a Alcohol type Fuel,wouldnt that be more reason to lean toward a Short Path Intake?Like your Victor?

[69NovaSS]

Duane,I was thinking ahead for you.I am posting this for you to consider,not for the College Race professors to ask me to explain.Since you are considering a Alcohol type Fuel,wouldnt that be more reason to lean toward a Short Path Intake?Like your Victor?


I think I have decided, due to my potential cam choice, that the Victor just plain makes sense to me. It should work very well. Joe, your input is always appreciated.;) :)

[chevy65supernova]

heres another good site i found...talks about the conversion...even making your own E85 ( i dont think ill get that crazy)


http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id26.html

[Twisted6]

One thing I don't recall reading in this topic. Is that You will be running MORE E85. When going from gas to a Alky Motor ,The carb jetting needs to be Bigger then they would be for Normal Fuel. This is what i have been told many times By different racers. I also Found this out myself. On my Daughters Jrs dragster When we switch from reg, Race fuel to Elky. Yeah I paid less per.Gal. But I used twice as much.The Jr Ran 8.90s in the 1/8.
One other thing I have done in the past was to mix the Elky with 87 fuel In my 88 chevy Van If i stayed with 3/4s of a tank of the cheap stuff and a 1/4 elky I got a little better mpgs. But i tired a 50/50 I got less mpgs then if i just ran straight 87. Mind you I did this with OUT making any changes in timing,plugs. This also was not E85, But it was the same elky I ran in the Jr. Not that there is much difference I don't think??
This E85 was also a topic on the Inliners And from what I also understood and from what testing I did with elky and gas ,The E85 will have less Mpgs then the reg fuel we already now use.?????
So just my 2cents worth.

[69NovaSS]

One thing I don't recall reading in this topic. Is that You will be running MORE E85. When going from gas to a Alky Motor ,The carb jetting needs to be Bigger then they would be for Normal Fuel. This is what i have been told many times By different racers. I also Found this out myself. On my Daughters Jrs dragster When we switch from reg, Race fuel to Elky. Yeah I paid less per.Gal. But I used twice as much.The Jr Ran 8.90s in the 1/8.
One other thing I have done in the past was to mix the Elky with 87 fuel In my 88 chevy Van If i stayed with 3/4s of a tank of the cheap stuff and a 1/4 elky I got a little better mpgs. But i tired a 50/50 I got less mpgs then if i just ran straight 87. Mind you I did this with OUT making any changes in timing,plugs. This also was not E85, But it was the same elky I ran in the Jr. Not that there is much difference I don't think??
This E85 was also a topic on the Inliners And from what I also understood and from what testing I did with elky and gas ,The E85 will have less Mpgs then the reg fuel we already now use.?????
So just my 2cents worth.

Ya we talked about the MPG difference between the fuels(some quotes below)...BTW that is interesting that a mixture of 25% alky would actualy increase MPG...very interesting indeed:)


As afar as my knowledge goes, you need to run a alcohol type carb (being that Ethenol is just like Alcohol, you need to have 1/3 more fuel than regular gasoline) and fuel pump. I think Aeroquip teflon fuel lines (insted of the rubber type) should be sufficent.

Would a person be able to just rebuild a gas carb with the correct parts/gaskets to withstand the corrosiveness of the alcohol and then increase the size of the jets by roughly 30 percent?:confused:


Remember, your fuel economy will drop on E85. For example, if you got 30-mpg on gasoline, you will only get about 20-mpg on E85. Make sure you factor that in when you price the stuff. Basically the price of E85 has to be about 2/3rd of the price of gasoline before you start saving money. So unless you can get $2-gal E85, you'll be spending more on fuel.


Well first I would not think of running e85 if my car could run on 87 octane fuel. BUT it will not run on that fuel it will likely need substantially more octane than that so that is when it starts to become economicly feasiable to do this.

From a few sources I have heard the current price of E85 is slighlty less then the price of 87 octane. So I can have 105 octane fuel for slightly less then the cost of 87 octane. If it turns out due to my 11.5+cr (will know the exact cr in the future) using iron heads to boot that I need to run 100 octane to avoid knock then e85 is a huge bargin. You cannot buy 100+ octain fuel for less money then you can get e85. And I would speculate that most 100+ octane fuel is indeed at least a 1/3 more expensive than e85 (though i have not looked into that yet)

Yes I will lose mileage..thats a given.... On this car however thats no biggy. So instead of getting 9mpg...like it did in the past it will not get 6mpg. Again no biggy. The car will get crappy MPG no mater what I run for fuel it always did in the past and it always will as long as I own it...:)


ummm...no...his assumption is based on, or at least I assume it is, my replacing 87 octane fuel with e85...well that is NOT the plan....my plan is to replace 100+ octane gas with 105 octane e85. when you look at it that way there is indeed a cost savings to be had. E85 is currently slightly less then 87 octane fuel...100+ octane gas is substantually more then that in cost.. ;) :)

I dunno maybe I'm out to lunch on this:confused: :)


There is an article in the Popular Hot Rodding magazine for July. The article states that E85 can be as much as 113 octane. With this we can run 13.1 compression and it will cost cheaper than regular. The article does state if you got 10 mpg you will now get 9 but again the savings of paying $$ for super and getting gas thats higher octane that is cheaper than regular out weighs it. Plus who cares its cleaner:D

[stock z/28]

Hi,

Im real interested in using E85 in high compression street engines as well.

I am not sure it will be easy.

First I guess I have learned a little in what little research I have done.

There is alcohol as in methanol, then there is alcohol an in ethanol.
They appear to me very different.

Methanol is what I guess most motor sport engines run and it takes roughly 2 times as much by weight to equal gasoline.

Eathonal (again I guess) takes about 1.6 times as much by weight to equal gasoline, and that is basically (and 15% gasoline) what E85 is.

What ever the exact calculation is Im not sure a simple jet change would make me happy with a carb. I would think the bleeds- emulsification- power valve restrictions-idle-etc-etc- would also have to be modified. I would not mind doing this, I just have to learn what I need to do.

I just built a 12.7 to one 350 for my daughters (shes 15) 92 camaro, and Id like to try it in this car. Its sold about 4 miles from my shop. Im very interested in it, I just dont know anything about it yet.

Jeff

[rdj59]

As far as storing E85, it would have to be stored in an air tight container as the fuel is suseptable to absorbing water. With E85 they say you can also run 6-10 degrees more timing with out ping.
Here's a chart i download to show the aprox increase in jet area when using E85. So if your running a 66 jet, then you need to step up to a 74.

Jet #
Diameter
Flow area
147%
~147% Jet #
66
0.066
0.003421
0.005029
74

67
0.0663
0.003452
0.005075
74


68
0.0685
0.003685
0.005417
76

69
0.0693
0.003772
0.005545
76

70
0.0735
0.004243
0.006237
79

71
0.075
0.004418
0.006494
80-81

72
0.0755
0.004477
0.006581
81

73
0.079
0.004902
0.007205
82

74
0.08
0.005027
0.007389
83

75
0.082
0.005281
0.007763
85

76
0.084
0.005542
0.008146
87

77
0.0855
0.005741
0.00844
88-89

78
0.087
0.005945
0.008739
90

79
0.089
0.006221
0.009145
91

80
0.089
0.006221
0.009145
91

81
0.092
0.006648
0.009772
92-93

82
0.094
0.00694
0.010201
93-94

83
0.0975
0.007466
0.010975
95

85
0.0985
0.00762
0.011202
96

86
0.1
0.007854
0.011545
97

87
0.1015
0.008091
0.011894
98

88
0.1025
0.008252
0.01213
98

89
0.1045
0.008577
0.012608
99

Thanks,
Jeramie

[Twisted6]

well the 1/4 may not have been that much But real close. It was fuel we had left over when we sold her dragster which was a few mos Old. The person who bought the dragster didn't want it. And I really didn't want to waste it. So i just figured what the heck way not dump some into the Van and I had right around 3/4s of a tank of fuel and I just figured what the heck it can't hurt with that kinda cut. my 88 is a 350 tbi 700r 3.42 in the rear. Mind you i did this mix thing a few years ago so I can remember what the real numbers were now Or what the small fuel mix was. But i do remeber it was ruffly a 1/4 to 3/4 But when I tried the 50/50 The drop was bad enough to me I had thought I may have made a big OPPs it seemed to run on the crappy sides and The mpgs Took a big dive meaning Less then 16 mpgs when the van ran a average of 18 city 24 hwy which to me is not bad for something push 5000lbs plus.(seeing it does have a fiberglass topper on it).

[chevy65supernova]

Good news if you are looking into this, and were worried about availability of E-85. I just heard on the news that there are new refineries underway! They are turning old breweries ect into refineries, 2 news ones here in MI alone will be going up soon!!!

[69NovaSS]

Hi,

What ever the exact calculation is Im not sure a simple jet change would make me happy with a carb. I would think the bleeds- emulsification- power valve restrictions-idle-etc-etc- would also have to be modified. I would not mind doing this, I just have to learn what I need to do.

Jeff

Jeff, I do think your right on this...I was looking through the Bill Mitchell Hard Core Catalogue and saw that they do sell recalibrated Metering blocks for holley carbs specificly for Alcohol. For a 750 carb it looks like they are about 50 bucks give or take a bit per metering block. Now I suspect this is calibrated for the more common Methanol based fuels used in race cars so I dont know how this would translate out to Ethanol which is what E85 is largely comprised of.:)

[stock z/28]

Hi Duane,

I would think there would be quite a bit of difference between methanol and e85. There is also orifices in the main body and base plate that would require modifications as well.

Jeff

[Cuan]

I saw this on the internet today. Basically, it says that Wal-Mart is seriously considering selling E85 at its gas stations. The closest E85 station to me is 50+ miles, but Wal-Mart is only 10 miles away.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/08/news/companies/pluggedin_gunther.fortune/index.htm

[novamike]

Maybe "Moonshine Stills" will be back in style?Just like mico-breweries!
Mike

[stock z/28]

Hi.

Duane, are you still interested in this? I was at a trade show this week that featured an E85 "shoot out". I think the winner was a 400 small block with a carb and it made abour 660hp. Kinda neat A 383 was second with ove 630.

[69NovaSS]

ya Jeff its still pretty interesting stuff...man those motors sound pretty bad azz:cool:

[Paul Wright]

November 2006 Car Craft (red 3rd gen Nova on cover) has all the details on this.
http://carcraft.com/toc/116_0611_cover_l.jpg

[69NovaSS]

November 2006 Car Craft (red 3rd gen Nova on cover) has all the details on this.

Cool...I will have to look for it...thanks Paul:)

[Argrandawg]

Best source of info would probably be your local circle track. These engines run for longer periods of time and would be somewhat closer to what you or I might see on the street. I will say one of the benefits not mentioned is the cooling effect alcohol has on an engine. In racing a smaller fan pulley and lighter, smaller radiators are used. I've even seen VW's race with the cylinders hanging in the breeze with no other form of cooling while running alcohol. You are also able to run rich without power falling off but run lean and all is toast. From what I've seen though I don't think any roundy-round guy would ever put up with the trouble of running alcohol on the street. just me

[69NovaSS]

Well at the moment for me the deciding factor will be when I actually start the build on the motor. IF by that moment in time the availability of E85 has increased in my area I will likely give it a shot if it s not more available i wont likely do it....the motor will be built accordingly depending on which way I finely decide to go based on availability...BTW I could be out to lunch but I believe the old VW motors(old VW bugs) were air cooled from the factory:)

[Argrandawg]

Sure, All the first VW's were air cooled. They also all came with a fan and tightly fitted cooling tin. The engines I refer to have no fan and no cooling tin of any kind. Like you might see on an airplane, with the cylinders hanging out in the breeze. With gas you still have heating issues but with alcohol the heads can run cool enough just from passing air around it. I raced Formula VEE's for years and always wanted to try alcohol but rules didn't allow it.

[Stock72Nova]

There are plenty more sites out there about this I researched it last summer when the gas prices soared. I was researching distillling my own eathanol. The initial cost of the still is high but it will pay off in the long run. you can distill eathanol for less than 75 cents per gallon. you need to apply for a distillers liscense from the government though.

[BBaker]

My 383 runs poorly on 87 octane, a little better on 89 octane (90/10 gas/ethanol blend), and runs much better on 93 octane that costs about $0.30/gallon more.

I took my car out on Sunday for the first time in a few months, and it was pinging quite a bit on the old gas in the tank. I put four gallon of E85 on top of half a tank of four month old 90/10, and all the pinging went away.

I think the E85 is 105 Octane, and in IL costs less than regular gas.

Anyone know of a reason not to be blending some of the E85 in with 87 or 89 octane?

[big dog ss]

make sure you change your fuel filter after that tank. the E85 will loosen all the varnish and crap in your tank and send it down the line. also keep an eye on your carb and fuel line for leaks, the E85 will eat the older stuff. i use an octane booster called turbo 108. 2 bottles with a tank of 93 and my last BB that was 12.7-1 never had a problem on the street or strip. some dont like octane boosters and a lot of them on the shelf at wally world are bunk but ive had great luck with this one. JMHO

[burns]

I have been studying this subject for a while. As far a availability goes it will be growing drastically. The company my brother works for is currenty building 10 or more 1 million gallon per year distilleries just in iowa. I have also heard a great deal about cellulose production (don't know a whole lot about it) but an ethanol plant near me is in the process of converting. From what I have heard the cellulose plant will be making alchohol from grass and all other sorts of plants. I hope to do a conversion soon on my nova after a little more research. In iowa there is an e85 pump in almost every town.

[burns]

I know this has been discussed before but I can't find what I am looking for in other posts so I will start a new one.
I am looking into runnig E85 in my nova and am looking for anyone that is currently running it.
First question: Can I run it in a stock tank? If not has anyone used a tank liner that is safe with E85. I want to keep the stock tank location.
Second can it be run in a steel fuel line. I know the rubber hoses will need to be replaced with teflon but will the steel line work?
Has anyone done the carb conversion themselves? I know rejetting will need to be done but what else? I have researched this quite extensively and am getting mixed answers on the subject from different places so I thought I would see if there is anyone actually running it to see there results.

[burns]

Anybody else running E85?

[Argrandawg]

Don't know where Lake Park is but Iowa is huge in circle track racing and alcohol is the fuel of choice. Find a local race shop and take a look at what changes they have had to make. Make certain you explain you reasons, racers don't like others pokin around.:D:D

[burns]

Most of the racers are running methanol which takes a lot different setup than e-85.

[fossilrunner]

Hey my new motor will be running on e85 here in the next 2 weeks. I have a cell in the back with 8an line and 1/2" aluminum hardline under the car. Its not quite as corrosive as alcohol but it is more corrosive then gasoline so watch your parts.It also acts as a cleaner so make sure your tank isnt full of rust otherwise it will all come out and clog up you fuel system. Im running a holley hp 750 alchohol carb with 90/96 jets. You also need to run a colder plug. im running r5671a9 NGK plugs in mine(but I also run nitrous to). Im not totally for sure if timing is the same as gasoline but im pretty sure. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. also you can check out e85forum.com

[fossilrunner]

o and heres some more infor on my carb set up

Needle and seat size = .130
squirter size =.031
idle air bleed = .065
high speed air bleed size= .031

[Argrandawg]

Most of the racers are running methanol which takes a lot different setup than e-85.

Actually from a tuners perspective it does not. Timing, jets, these will have to be played with just as with methanol and no one will be able to say unequivocally which settings will work best without trial and error. The benefit of racers is they can identify all areas of corrosion your project will encounter.

[1975supernova]

I have been running e85 for 2 years now and I love it. My car is like fossilrunners, it has a fuel cell, alcohol friendly pump and filter and an lines and fittings. But my carb is an off the shelf 750 dp with the bigger needle and seats, no power valve, 90 jets, and 55 squirters. The car runs 2tenths faster with the e85 in it. The part that stinks is I miss the smell of racing gas. I also heard it's corrosive but I have a friend that ran it in his car with stock tank and lines all summer and hasn't had any problems yet.

[67 Chevy II]

I have been running e85 for 2 years now and I love it. My car is like fossilrunners, it has a fuel cell, alcohol friendly pump and filter and an lines and fittings. But my carb is an off the shelf 750 dp with the bigger needle and seats, no power valve, 90 jets, and 55 squirters. The car runs 2tenths faster with the e85 in it. The part that stinks is I miss the smell of racing gas. I also heard it's corrosive but I have a friend that ran it in his car with stock tank and lines all summer and hasn't had any problems yet.

Just curious what dose E85 smell like?

[Pro-touring72]

At $4 a gallon plus now for 87 octane I dont see the cost effective argument anymore...lol

[NovatoriusRex]

They've started running 90/10 ALL THE TIME here in Oregon with a resulting drop in fuel economy.

Why doesn't this require the same retuning and change-outs that 85/15 does?

[burns]

The 90/10 is 90% gasoline 10% ethanol and the E-85 is 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol.

[NovatoriusRex]

The 90/10 is 90% gasoline 10% ethanol and the E-85 is 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol.

Oops. :o:pray:

[69NovaSS]

They've started running 90/10 ALL THE TIME here in Oregon with a resulting drop in fuel economy.

Why doesn't this require the same retuning and change-outs that 85/15 does?

that would be in flex fuel vehicles. The computer in the car is able to adjust the Air Fuel ratio so the car will run on both regular gas and e85 or 90/10 or any variation of these. You can not do this with a non computer based car and I assume its not your regular computer either as it has to be able to recognize the fuel your running and adjust the A/F ratio as reguired. Normally you would have to pick a fuel and set the car up for that.

BTW the more alcohol you have in the fuel the lower your fuel economy will be. Its just the nature of the beast. The air fuel ratio is much lower for a vehicle running alcohol and that translates to greater fuel consumption.

[AussieSS]

Hi, i work in an ethanol plant in OZ that runs some of their company cars on E85. I also have run my high comp big block on a gasoline/ethanol blend with no drama,s. Like methanol, ethanol is an alcohol fuel so it will absorb moisture ect from tank so filter blockages are common on older cars. Also mileage will suffer as you need to use more fuel to achieve the same distance, upto 1 & half times for straight ethanol! But you are rite about engine detination, around 108 octane so you can run a bit more timing. Cold starts are a drama to due to the alcohol. But with a bit of trial and error i think its a viable alternative. As suggested look for leaks in pump, carb ect due again to the corrosive nature of alcohol. Stochiomtric air/fuel ratio for gasoline is 14.6:1 where ethanol is 9.0:1 (100%). Hope this give you a rough guide, cheers.

[VooDooII]

I don't have time to read the whole thread but has anyone found E-85 in Nor Cal:confused:

[Nova 404]

At last check there was only a few places in California to get E85.Looks like one will open in Concord in 2008

http://www.pearsonfuels.com/e85/stations/con.htm

[VooDooII]

At last check there was only a few places in California to get E85.Looks like one will open in Concord in 2008

http://www.pearsonfuels.com/e85/stations/con.htm

Right up the road from me I think I will do the conversion:yes:

[countryboy976]

ist e85 similar to moonshine it made almost the same way and i know bootlegers during prohibition was running there cars on moonshine i was just wondering cause from everything i have heard about e85 it sounds very similar to me


they are both made from corn

[burns]

E-85 is 85% grain alcohol and 15% gas. Pretty much all of the grain alcohol is made from corn right now. I am not sure what type of grain moonshine is made with.