Greg Learns to Weld (Pics)

[Greg_R_63]

Custom Jim comes through again: he loaned me his Lincoln Weld-Pak 100, recently converted to Mig, so I can take care of some of my rust issues.

http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/welder.jpg

He even made this nifty cart for it, complete with an outlet box.

I bought a small tank of welding mix from the local welding supply place, and a cheap auto-darkening mask on ebay (only $35, and it works well).

After practicing the basics over at Jim's, I brought it home and ran a few test beads on a scrap chunk of floor pan, mostly to make sure that my wiring could handle it. Success!


http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingfront.jpg
Knocked off the e-coat, set my clamp, ran some beads. The floor pan is about 18 gauge, most of the other sheet metal is around 20. The 3-B setting was probably not hot enough, but by going slow, I got penetration.

http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingback.jpg

http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldersettings.jpg
On the less expensive welders, you basically just have a few levels of wire speed and voltage to choose from. Over at Jim's, we noticed that it was very easy to blow through the 20 gauge at level C. B seems just about right.

My plan is to do many test pieces in different configurations and positions before I ever weld on the car itself. I'll post updates to this thread as I go.

[Greg_R_63]

Here's some of the job that I have ahead of me:

My car spent much of its life in the Seattle area, and much of that outside. All those cool pine needles and rain did a wonderful job on my cowl sides. Here's what I found when I removed the fenders.
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingcowl-011.jpg

And when I cut open the cowl sides: Oh, joy!! :rolleyes:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldinginterior-008.jpg

Fortunately, novajoe came through with some donor cowl sides. I took them apart with spotweld cutters, and cut my patches. The precision of my cutting leaves a bit to be desired, but it will work. Both sides are rusted to almost exactly the same degree.
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingcowlside.jpg

[Greg_R_63]

And, to add to the fun, the front passenger side floor pan is rusted out as well. I took this picture without a flash, so you can see the light. :D
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingfloorpanrust.jpg
You can also see the rotted cowl/kick panel vent from the inside. Ain't old cars great?

Most of the bad stuff has been cut away here, but I'll put the cowl back together bfore I go further with it, just to make sure that front outside corner stays in place. If you look, you can get an idea of how much crud gets thrown up into the subframe over the years.
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldingfloorpan.jpg

[loneagle]

Looks good!

I just got done doing some rust repair on mine. The hard work is done and now its time to spray the topcoat.

[63AKDN]

I've got the same welder (with a gas bottle). Bought it for welding patches and replacing the floor braces. It has more than paid for itself for that job alone, not to mention all of the other things I've repaired and fabricated since.

By the looks of it so far, you seem to be doing a great. Like SuperSport said, let's see some pics when you are finished.

[Igosplut]

Watch those auto-darkening maskes, especially the cheap ones. If they time-out, or just malfuction you end up starting to weld without them tinting. I used one for a short while and it always seemed to shut down and I would be welding for two seconds before I caught it.....

[Greg_R_63]

Watch those auto-darkening maskes, especially the cheap ones. If they time-out, or just malfuction you end up starting to weld without them tinting. I used one for a short while and it always seemed to shut down and I would be welding for two seconds before I caught it.....

I was skeptical about it too, and I've read about expensive masks doing the same thing, but I gave it a shot, because this seller has well over 7000 perfect feedback, and the masks seem to be all he sells:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200013348523

I'm very paranoid about my eyes, so if it starts to hesitate at all, I'll trash it. The Cee Kay welding supply a couple of miles from me has all the name brands. So far so good though.

[BTHOMAS67Wagon]

Greg,
I love seeing "welding in progress" pics !!! Instead of finished only pictures, because it gives a sense that others have/are going/doing what I am do/have done.

Currious...Why did you choose to leave the seem in the floor? Was it because of the contour?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/bthomas71chevy/weldingfloorpan.jpg

Keep the pics coming !!!
They are inspiring !!!

:)
-Brent Thomas
Ohio

[Greg_R_63]

Greg,
I love seeing "welding in progress" pics !!! Instead of finished only pictures, because it gives a sense that others have/are going/doing what I am do/have done.

Currious...Why did you choose to leave the seem in the floor? Was it because of the contour?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/bthomas71chevy/weldingfloorpan.jpg

Keep the pics coming !!!
They are inspiring !!!

:)
-Brent Thomas
Ohio

The only reason I did that is to hold the bottom of the kick panel in place while I put it back together. The rightmost side of what you circled is the bottom of the kick panel vent. At the moment, the whole outer skin of it, what sits under the fender, has been removed. So, in order to keep that bottom edge of the kick panel vent area exactly where it should be, the seam will stay intact until I put the outer skin of the cowl back on. In the meantime, I get practice cutting spotwelds, trimming metal, etc..

[70Deuce]

http://www.accustrike.com/
I've got one of these flip-up shields that you work with your chin. Sounds wierd but I really like it. The big plus for me is I can see what I'm doing a lot better; I have a "cheater" lens on mine so I don't have to wear my glasses.

[BTHOMAS67Wagon]

Gotcha !!

I have an auto-darkening helmet my dad gave me, but have thought about buying something nicer because I worry about my eyes as well. They are just so darn expensive. Of course, less expensive then my eye sight, but still expensive !!

Is it just me, or did anyone else laugh at the animated gif too ?!?!
http://www.accustrike.com/mvhelmet.gif

:)
-Brent Thomas
Ohio

[the FLYER]

i guess that's proof of a GOOD welding unit VS: a crappy one... my welding improved BIG TIME just having the right hood so i could use 2 hands... but NONE of my welds look as purdy as yours...

Good Job Greg, i wish ya luck and hope ya get r done soon ;)

[Seattle_Mike]

Did you find the key I dropped and fell in the cowl area years ago?

[Greg_R_63]

Did you find the key I dropped and fell in the cowl area years ago?

No, but I think there might've been some bits of Jimmy Hoffa in there. :rolleyes:

[Greg_R_63]

i guess that's proof of a GOOD welding unit VS: a crappy one... my welding improved BIG TIME just having the right hood so i could use 2 hands... but NONE of my welds look as purdy as yours...

Good Job Greg, i wish ya luck and hope ya get r done soon ;)

Johnny, I know you've got a big welding thread around here somewhere. What brand of welder do you have?

[the FLYER]

harbor frieght POS ;)

hehehe :D

look in Jonesy's DIY thread for the sheets that were posted (if that's what ya wanted) ;)

[Greg_R_63]

There is some good stuff in there, thanks! Forgot about that one.

Hey, if I have a wood workbench that I want to practice welding on (on top of, not the bench itself :rolleyes: ), but I would prefer not to set it on fire, what should I cover it with? Would a welding blanket be able to take the heat?

[the FLYER]

Greg, i bought a sheet of 18ga for some work i needed... i cut a big piece ta fit the top of my bench...

maybe ??? ;)

[Greg_R_63]

You know, come to think of it, I have a roll of heavy copper foil that will probably do the trick...

[the FLYER]

You know, come to think of it, I have a roll of heavy copper foil that will probably do the trick...



ARRRRRGH !!! "FOIL"ed again !!! :eek: :D

[Greg_R_63]

Ok, here's my sacrificial chunk of floor pan again, more or less clean and marked for cutting:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-001.jpg

slice and dice:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-006.jpg

clamped:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-008.jpg

tacked:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-009.jpg

tack welds filled in:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-012.jpg
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-014.jpg

and ground:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-015.jpg
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-016.jpg

It's a start. More exciting pics to follow.

[novanutcase]

greg,

Looks great! Just wondering though, the rust that is still there, do you think that maybe painting it with some POR-15 before you cover it with the floor pan might be a good idea?

[Greg_R_63]

greg,

Looks great! Just wondering though, the rust that is still there, do you think that maybe painting it with some POR-15 before you cover it with the floor pan might be a good idea?

Trust me, there won't be any floor pan covering anything, much less rust. This is going to be all butt welds and plug welds, and any rust that you see in the pics above will be cut out. For extra rustproofing, the whole floorpan will be painted with Master Series Silver.

[Greg_R_63]

And, proceeding in like fashion, the whole chunk of floor pan has been welded back together:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-026.jpg

Behold, Frankenpan!
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-042.jpg

The bottom side, so you can see weld penetration:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-044.jpg

[Greg_R_63]

One note of interest, if you blow through in a few places, which naturally I did, you can back it with a brass or copper object to help fill in the hole:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-035.jpg
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-037.jpg

Custom Jim uses this brass junction block with a steel bracket screwed to it. This welding magnet has a notch cut in it to hold the bracket. You can put it wherever you need it. Pretty cool:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_06_06-039.jpg

[the FLYER]

Greg !!! i'm checkin' ya out !!! i'll be learnin' from you and others so i can repair my floor too... lookin' at attempting it this next week...


i appreciate the work yer doin', most would've said no ;)

yer a good man, keep up the progress reports !!! :D :D :D

[Real McCoy]

Is it just me or do you have serious problems welding close to the magnet? If I get anywhere close to the magnet my welder goes goofy. I figure it is due to the magnetic field. I got away from the magnets any time I can use something else because of that. RM

[Kenny_Z]

Note for cheap people like myself: if you happen to have any old broken hard drives laying around break them open for some really powerful, really small welding magnets.

Looks like your welding is looking much better than mine. Nice work.

[Greg_R_63]

Is it just me or do you have serious problems welding close to the magnet? If I get anywhere close to the magnet my welder goes goofy. I figure it is due to the magnetic field. I got away from the magnets any time I can use something else because of that. RM

I really have not noticed that. Seems to work fine for me.

[Greg_R_63]

Greg !!! i'm checkin' ya out !!! i'll be learnin' from you and others so i can repair my floor too... lookin' at attempting it this next week...


i appreciate the work yer doin', most would've said no ;)

yer a good man, keep up the progress reports !!! :D :D :D

Thanks! :D

Not for cheap people like myself: if you happen to have any old broken hard drives laying around break them open for some really powerful, really small welding magnets.

Looks like your welding is looking much better than mine. Nice work.

Wow, didn't think of that, just threw a hard drive away a few weeks back. Still, I ended up with about 6 of the arrow ones in various sizes, but aside from Jim's modified one, I get more use out of the clamps. Definitely need more of those. Thanks for the encouragement!

[new2novas]

only with tig should you have a problem near a magnet...never had a problem with mig

[Greg_R_63]

Okay, one more look at Frankenpan here, after a quick once-over with the grinder. The seams could clean up nice, if I wasn't just going to chop it up again for more practice:

http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_08_06-001.jpg

[Greg_R_63]

Tonight's exciting episode of Greg Learns to Weld is about plug welds. I cut off some chunks of Frankenpan, and cut some holes with my spot weld cutter. Since pretty much all of my plug welds are going to be vertical as opposed to flat on a table, I put my work pieces in a vise. The fact that they are a little awkward to get at just makes it more realistic:

http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_08_06-002.jpg

In this picture, my 3rd weld is on the lower right. I'm realizing that in order to get the hole good and filled, I have to back off a little, and slightly increase the wire speed. I still need plenty of practice on these, but it's starting to make sense:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_08_06-007.jpg

Pretty ugly, but these welds seem strong. To keep rust out though, I need to work on filling the hole completely, and making a little mound of weld over it:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_08_06-009.jpg
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_08_06-015.jpg

After grinding down, it's easy to see where I need more weld:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_08_06-018.jpg

[62SportCoupe]

Great thread!!!

[Greg_R_63]

Great thread!!!

Thanks!



Did a few more plug welds tonight, 8 to be exact, on the opposite side of the same piece. After grinding them down, it's hard to tell where they are from the front, which I think is the idea. Anyway, I'm getting the hang of getting them filled in:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_09_06-003.jpg

[Rich_1028]

this is a great thread
my next to have item is a welder
then learn how to use it.

[Greg_R_63]

this is a great thread
my next to have item is a welder
then learn how to use it.

Cool, I'd be glad if it helped or encouraged someone.


Today, I rigged up some practice for my floor pan repair. If you've ever looked at a floor pan from below, you know that the outer edges are folded down, then spot welded to the rocker rail. Unless you have the car on a lift or rotisserie, you will probably be laying on your back, doing plug welds. I found out it was much more difficult than being upright, and harder to see, especially with an auto darkening visor, which is tinted green even when it is off.

Cut holes:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_13_06-001.jpg

Screwed and clamped the work pieces to my work bench, about 16 inches off the floor:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_13_06-007.jpg

Again, pretty ugly welds, but they work:
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_13_06-010.jpg

I think I will run a bead down the bottom edge (lap weld) in addition to the plug welds, to seal it up.
http://www.nocturnaloner.net/Nova/weldpractice8_13_06-012.jpg

[NIGHTSHADE]

Lots of good info in this one too.

[Lane]

Looking good! :)

FWIW - I've used same welder for years on exhaust, etc., and have found temp B(like you) and speed 4 to work very well on floor pans(new) and the surrounding older metal. If it gets too hot, just pause to let it cool off a bit and resume.

On exhaust, most stainless, and heavier gauge metal - temp C and speed 5 1/2 works well.

<----just finished both pans on '62 wagon. I've some Frankenpan action on the toe-boards. :o

[novarocket]

Thanks for the info, I'm getting some welding lessons this week.

[THE_330]

Nice weld job.. I opted for a stick welder, all I can say is thank god for lead and bondo.....:beer:

[lump]

only with tig should you have a problem near a magnet...never had a problem with mig

I've never had a problem with my tig near a magnet?!?

[67 canso s/d]

greg you're a great teacher. i've learned alot just from looking at what you've done and explained. keep sending more pics.

[taz3]

For those members that want use flux core to weld sheet metal it is a little more difficult,but can be achieved with practice.The best tip I've ever heard was to keep the welder tip further away from the material being welded this will help to reduce the heat and prevent burning through.You will also need an auto darking mask,because you need to get the tip moving as soon as the weld begins.I've found with my welder using .035 flux core on low setting holding the tip back about 3/4" back gives me the best results.Fresh wire is also very important when using flux core and keep you work as clean as possible.