Air Care !!!

[BOGIE]

I just received confirmation that our current Air Care requirements have been extended to the end of 2011 :( :( .. Just a cash grab for the lower mainland people. So, we de-tune these cars to the point they hardly run.... air care it, give them 24 bucks and re-tune after to the point of killing some small animals with the fumes of 94 octane?? Sound about right?? Just venting!!

Bogie

[al89]

air care whats that oooh the island life

[CdnL79 Registry]

I agree, Ric. A money grab! No aircare once you get past Chilliwack. Have you been through that traffic nightmare called Kelowna recently? When this whole thing started many people in the Chilliwack area registered their cars to post office box numbers in Hope to beat the system. They ran out of boxes in the Hope post office! The government filled the loophole by making a decree that vehicle registrations in the aircare region had to have the registered owners street address in addition to any post office box number.
Bob

[Cdn67]

A buddy of mine has an 8 second vette that runs it on the street, parachute and all. He has it registered at the Ashcroft racetrack to beat air care. Mine, will pass with some work, but I am disappointed that this scam continues.

Tim

[Cansoman]

Took my Canso through the other day,failed on the idle.Remembered to disconnect and plug vacuum advance, passed. $48 later. What a ripoff!! Kelly

[68SSGrandpa]

Amazing what a pair of $60.00 Cats will do. Total cost with flanges and welding of the kit $ 240.00.
Couple of pics of the kit, and the aircare results. The results were last year. This year with the new carb, we are cleaner than that report, but i have not scanned it. It went through like a Honda this year, shake rattle and doing the cam rumba.
Solid roller 244 on the intake lifting .618, and aircared.
Sorry hard to read report:
HC Allowed 309 was 60
CO allowed 3.32 was 2.04
Nox allowed 3702 was 162
Idle:
HC allowed 889 was 147
CO allowed 889 was 0.84
I was high on my driving CO, but the guy stalled the car during the test, restarted it, and it still passed, so it probably loaded up the cats..

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/Nova68SS/1cccf106.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/Nova68SS/Cat.jpg

3 1/2" collector with 2 1/2" out to muffler.

[BOGIE]

Man am I PO'd......... I'm selling a car for my buddy and decided it would help the cause if it were aircared!! I told them I was selling and only wanted one year........ they said No, it mut be 2 yrs and 48 bucks!!!:eek: :eek: I sent ICBC a very nasty e-mail asking them to explain this "Cash Grab"!!!!
Thanx for letting me vent.
I am not now, or have I ever been mad at any Moderator!!!!!!!!! (especially the ones who catch Salmon!!:D :D )

Bogie

[CdnL79 Registry]

I am not now, or have I ever been mad at any Moderator!!!!!!!!! (especially the ones who catch Salmon!!:D :D )
Bogie
There's no real proof that the moderator frequently pictured here holding fish is the actual person who caught the fish he is displaying:p :p . It's also rumoured he owns a 66 Acadian, but we've never seen that either:D :D .
Bob

[novacars]

I know where he works , and have seen him there , but the fish and the car ? thats a whole different story . His name is Dan I think . Frank

[Cdn67]

Geez Ric you should wait for cooler weather to vent. After all, if your going to blow off steam, do it in a car with a heater delete!:D

Tim

[novasrus]

yes the air scare is bs my 65 SD passed no tune or any thing just started it & when luck i guess . shawn

[Jinks]

there is a simple loophole to get around aircare..

all you ahve to do is use either a "territory Z" insurance or insure at an address of a friend or relative outside the lowermainland.. after you insure you car, you go into another insurance place and just transfer your registered address to your local address and VOILA.. all done.. no aircare, and local insurance!

[BOGIE]

And you have to do this every year?? No questions asked, ever???

Well I finally got a reply back from ICBC............ they said I would have to take that issue up with Aircare, as they do not own/run it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bogie

[Cdn67]

there is a simple loophole to get around aircare..

all you ahve to do is use either a "territory Z" insurance or insure at an address of a friend or relative outside the lowermainland.. after you insure you car, you go into another insurance place and just transfer your registered address to your local address and VOILA.. all done.. no aircare, and local insurance!

I have heard that they are starting to crack down on this, hard to believe by I think Aircare and ICBC ARE in bed together.

Tim

[Jinks]

hey i just used this method a few months ago.. i was surprised how EASY it was.. they didnt ask any questions.. and what does the person working at the insurance place know or care?

I dont see how ICBC can stop this as long as you are using a valid address... just make sure if you go this route you DONT drive the car until its been insured at your local address..

[novasrus]

i also used this type of coverage on my 69 <be carefull >i have a broker firend that give me this after the car failed air care
it is for out of province or out of your home town coverage
you could find your self others & car NOT covered ;shawn

[68SSGrandpa]

Shawn, I AGREE, LOUD AND CLEAR, and like you said, people who do this could find they have NO coverage.

Out of air care zone, and Z plate are NOT a good idea.
My Broker had warned me a long time ago about doing this. If you falsifiying residency, and or quick flip vehicle usages on legal " Insurance documents", to get around air care. ICBC don't really give a hoot about aircare, but they do look seriously at playing around with legal documents, by using " loopholes".
If they find a " false " statement of any kind regarding the insurance of a vehicle,( address, Z plated etc.) it is thier right to decline any claim, damage, or loss. This would include any law suit that results for damages, bodily, or materially.

Lets assume a minor fendor bender, and the other party has Osteoporosis like me ( very weak bones). A 15 MPH impact could very easily fracture more vertabrae in my back. This could result in a wheel chair for life and lets assume I sue for 2 million. Since technically there is a false statement on the insurance application, the insurance company gladly hands over the law suit to " the non-insured driver", as they are NOT liable for any claims.

Call me anal about stuff like this, but if there is a claim above and beyond a few thousand, they are going to check for fraud, or lets say loopholed documents.

[Jinks]

are you talking about LEAVING your insurance registered in another zone though?

I used my parents address in kelowna, then transfered it back to my "local" residence the next day.. how is there anything illegal there.. lets just assume i was planning on moving up there and then i changed my mind.. oops my mistake :)

[68SSGrandpa]

Jinks,
I am not a lawyer, so I can't legally comment. I am sorry for the wordy reply, call me Chatty Cathy, but this is worth the read. YOU deciede if I am right or wrong, its only my opinion, not a legal statement.
The bottom line is that pleading ignorance of the law does not hold water, and if you have to say oopps, then maybe you already know the answer.
I don't need to read, and study the rules, as mine is aircared. For those who think they have got around the rules via a loophole, maybe it would be worth the time to study the insurance rules.
ICBC had introduced the address rule as a legal statute, in that you and your vehicle must have the same address. This was not done to get aircare guys, its due to other types of insuance fraud, but it is still on the books. I am sure there are exceptions, by that is the jest of the provision.
Z plating, cancelling, and re-issuing plates will NOT normally be done by a broker who knows you, and wants to keep his ICBC status. That broker KNOWS its against the actual statutes, and if caught can loose the ICBC rights to issue. Some issuers do it, I personally know of a few, as they are greddy for the commission on your insurance. If you however do it at one ICBC office, and replate at another, the system does have a loophole. That loophole resides in the way the computer system deals with re-plated, reclassified vehicles.
That unwitting clerk has no way of knowing by looking on the computer what you have done office to office, and issues the new insurance, but the system has recorded the transaction.
Therein is the problem if a claim of any magnatude happens. The first thing checked by any and all insuance companies, is that if a policy has been obtained legally, and that no switch a rue, or pokery has been done.
Aircare now has nothing to do with the issue at all, you have applied for, and made a false statement to obtain your insurance.
Think about filling out a health travel policy, that has no exam, and no Dr. report nessessary. One simple question is have you every been treated for a heart condition, you have been, but fail to check that box, cause no exam is nessessary. Or, it simply states to the best of my knowledge, my general health is good.
Lets assume you are on holidays in Hawaii, and have a minor heart attack, and go into the local hospital. They take your BCAA travel insurance as valid, and treat you to the tune of $140,000.00 USD for a 5 day stay.
All is well until you come back home, and find out you owe that $140K, cause you found a " loophole" on your travel insurance app., no Dr. report nessessary, and heck, I felt good before I left.
Happened to a friend of mine back in the 1980's. That holiday hospital bill almost killed him.

The insurance industry has always had massive fraud protection proceedures in place. Thier number one priority is to not pay until they are 100% satisfied the insuance when applied for was valid, and the claim, accident, and or injury is also valid.
This entire subject is not an aircare issue, forget about aircare, the small cost of saving the tune-up, can cost you your house, and your income for the rest of you life.
In insuance speak, its called risk adversion.
I choose to avoid the risk.
Instead of listing all the ways of avoiding aircare, why don't we post a list of reasonable priced Aircare approved shops in the lowermainland who can help make our vehicles pass, or obtain a conditional pass.

[BOGIE]

It's a tad early for me to read a book, but you do make a very valid point. I do know for a fact that ICBC does everything to assure you are covered. Collector status was "Breached" by 3 people last year for having after market stereos hidded in their car!!!.... "VOID"....... meaning no insurance after they were involved in fender/benders!!! Better safe than sorry, I say. It's still just a cash grab!!

Bogie

[68SSGrandpa]

Bogie,
That is the issue, any breached insuances. If those guys got into an accident, and are sued, goodbye house. Did you see the guy who had a $90K hot rod hit from behind who was asing $20K, or best offer in the buy/sell,
' Breached Insuance" no doubt as a rear ender is normally covered, and use to be 100% the other guys fault.


And yes, I agree Aircare sucks, my lawnmower, a Honda no less spits out more crap than all 3 of my cars every do week.

[CdnL79 Registry]

I agree 100% with Pat...don't mess with your insurance. The cost of Aircare is pretty small when compared to having your ICBC coverage voided. There is more and more small print in insurance policies. Read it! Remember the poor people in New Orleans who for years paid huge amounts for hurricane insurance, but got little or nothing last Fall because many of the underwriters said it was flood damage and not covered by their hurricane policies.
Bob

[68SSGrandpa]

Thanks Bob,
I am anal about insurance, for a good reason. I worked as a consultant for 10 years for SGI, which is the exact same as ICBC.
We use to have a chuckle at coffee breaks with the in-house fraud investigators, how easy it was to trip up, and cancel fraudulent claims. Those investigators were a lot older than me at the time. They were mostly X- RCMP, retired at 45, looking for a new job. By 45, a lot of them were the top crime investigator level, so they had seen it all by then.
The " loophole" stuff like taking VIN's from wrecks, and replating stole, or chop shop cars. Plating out of duristriction for lower rates ( same as AirCare), were all caught by clerks, and the investigation unit only went to court to testify.

I must repeat one thing:
It is the insuance industries first task on a claim, is to investigate if the insuance has been obtained legally.

The buck stops pretty quick, right there.

[Jinks]

its not the same for aircare though.. because you are transfering it BACK into your legal duristiction..

i dont see how they can do anything about it if you are legally insured in your proper zone at the time of your insurance claim..

its not the same as filling out your health insurance claim improperly.. it be like filling it out improperly THEN going back and saying "oh ok, i accidently filled that part out wrong.."

i dont know that they COULd win so easily in court.. there is no proof i didnt live with my parents in kelowna at the time of insuring! I dont really have a fixed address. i rent, and i use several different addresses for my mail.

So what do i do if i insure in the wrong area first then want to fix it? cancel it? phone them? tell them i put it in the wrong area first and want to fix it? it doesnt seem to make sense.

[Jinks]

oops. .hit enter too soon :)

i think basically all the insurance company cares about is that you are PAYING them the proper amount of money, and that you are properly insured at the time of the claim.. i dont see how it could matter to them otherwise.. im not ripping them off of any money..

[Cdn67]

I think everyone at one point in their lives has tried to beat the system, usually by buying sub-standard parts or equipment and it usually never works out (LOL), but playing around with insurance, is crazy. Your right saying that the only thing that they (ICBC) care about is getting the money, but if you do get into any legal problems (accident or other related issues with your car), the lawyers they have will use any means possible to find a way not pay out your claim. It's not worth the headache.

Lets say that you hit and kill someone, If ICBC deems that there is somehow fraud or misrepresentation involved when you insured, they can deem your insurance null and void. Would you have the money to pay the family if they decide to take legal action against you?

I think we all agree that the Aircare/ ICBC thing is a rip off, but basically we are dealing with big brother and unfortunatly have to tow the line.

[68SSGrandpa]

Jinks,
Here is what you just said:
i dont know that they COULd win so easily in court.. there is no proof i didnt live with my parents in kelowna at the time of insuring! I dont really have a fixed address. i rent, and i use several different addresses for my mail.

Are your parents willing to go to court and testify, yes my son that was in the accident that a child and mother died was living with us. Then the lawers say prove it. He was employed by ABC Company, and his work records say he never missed a day of work, here in Surrey. How could he commute every day from Kelowna. There have been no withdrawls from his account nor yours that would show that gas consumption, nor any credit card receipts.
His mileage at the time of aircare, and the current milage on the vehicle tells us he was never out of town with that vehicle.
And that is how you will NOT win the loophole game. They will search every cash ATM withdrawl, credit card transaction, Cell phone calls locatons etc.

It is darn hard to be invisable these days.

The bottom line here is you are gambling that you will not get into an accident, and you may be paying for insurance that you actually don't have. What a gift to ICBC, not only are they getting your money for free, they never have to pay out.
Maybe that is the true connection as to why ICBC does not want Aircare to go away. They would be paying a lot more legitimate claims.
This argument could go on forever, but like Bob says, there are certian things in life we must do, even if we disagree with them, like AirCare. AirCare is not a good way of reducing greenhouse gas, we should go after ships in the harbour. One ship spews more than all the cars in the lowermailand in a one day comparison.